Alert Level Language

[Atlanta-Ned]

These are the security alert levels and what they mean, as per the game's code:

ALERT_GREEN All threats to the station have passed. Security may not have weapons visible, privacy laws are once again fully enforced.
ALERT_BLUE_UPTO The station has received reliable information about possible hostile activity on the station. Security staff may have weapons visible, random searches are permitted.
ALERT_BLUE_DOWNTO The immediate threat has passed. Security may no longer have weapons drawn at all times, but may continue to have them visible. Random searches are still allowed.
ALERT_RED_UPTO There is an immediate serious threat to the station. Security may have weapons unholstered at all times. Random searches are allowed and advised.
ALERT_RED_DOWNTO The station's destruction has been averted. There is still however an immediate serious threat to the station. Security may have weapons unholstered at all times, random searches are allowed and advised.
ALERT_DELTA Destruction of the station is imminent. All crew are instructed to obey all instructions given by heads of staff. Any violations of these orders can be punished by death. This is not a drill.

UPTO/DOWNTO means what message displays when that alert level is reached from another alert level. For example, ALERT_BLUE_UPTO is the one that is displayed when the round starts.

How do we feel about rewording them to remove the language about random searches? Would you add/remove anything else?

New alert messages:

ALERT_GREEN All threats to the station have passed. Security may not have weapons visible.
ALERT_BLUE_UPTO The station has received reliable information about possible hostile activity on the station. Security staff may have weapons visible.
ALERT_BLUE_DOWNTO The immediate threat has passed. Security may no longer have weapons drawn at all times, but may continue to have them visible.
ALERT_RED_UPTO There is an immediate serious threat to the station. Security may have weapons unholstered at all times.
ALERT_RED_DOWNTO The station's destruction has been averted. There is still however an immediate serious threat to the station. Security may have weapons unholstered at all times.
ALERT_DELTA Destruction of the station is imminent. All crew are instructed to obey all instructions given by heads of staff. Any violations of these orders can be punished by death. This is not a drill.

[oranges]

Better I think

[CPTANT]

I was under the impression that server rules forbid random searches on blue so having the announcement say it is is rather dumb.

Also nobody ever pays regards to security levels when it comes to having weapons visible. Running around with a gun in your hand is a sign of unrobustness anyway.

Perhaps something more in line with the actual reality of how the crew treats red alert would perhaps be more appropriate.

[TheNightingale]

Weapons 'visible' includes having it on your suit storage, belt or back, I think.

TL;DR:

Green alert: everything's fine, don't walk around with a taser in your hand.
Blue alert: you *can* walk around with a taser in your hand, but you shouldn't unless you're chasing a crook.
Red alert: you *should* walk around with a taser in your hand.
Delta alert: a taser won't save you.

[kevinz000]

While that may be how it is in the code, our server is not configured that way. 'game_options.txt' from Bagil says
ALERT_BLUE_UPTO The station has received reliable information about possible hostile activity on the station. Security staff may have weapons visible. Searches are permitted only with probable cause.

[Lumbermancer]

Why are you focusing on weapon visibility which is of no relevance or importance whatsoever and can't be enforced in any way?

Why was random search removed? It was really the only practical thing about alert status and a focal point of incidental roleplaying. Without it you can remove alerts altogether, and replace all of them with "we're going home" status which shortens shuttle flight.

[CPTANT]

Why are you focusing on weapon visibility which is of no relevance or importance whatsoever and can't be enforced in any way?

Why was random search removed? It was really the only practical thing about alert status and a focal point of incidental roleplaying. Without it you can remove alerts altogether, and replace all of them with "we're going home" status which shortens shuttle flight.

The random search text was removed because Saegrimr will try to ban you for performing random searches under red alert anyway.

while there are already supposed to be allowed under blue....

[imblyings]

They're stupid and don't take into account player skill/experience in identifying justifiably suspicious cues or somewhat subjective criteria which makes a random search into non-justified random validhunting.

They are fun for fluff and should be remade into completely fluff things.

[Wyzack]

Having a taser in your hand any time other than when you are actively firing it is just asking to have it taken away from you

[D&B]

>Not carrying a plasma injected stun baton to carry in hand during red alert

[John_Oxford]

green: someone needs to change the alert level
blue: everyone needs to get the fuck on the ground, you shitbags are getting strip searched
red: everyone might aswell suicide, im coming with riot armor and drag nets to lethal your ass to the other server
delta: everyones already dead, including me

[ThatSlyFox]

green: someone needs to change the alert level
blue: everyone needs to get the fuck on the ground, you shitbags are getting strip searched
red: everyone might aswell suicide, im coming with riot armor and drag nets to lethal your ass to the other server
delta: everyones already dead, including me

[Cw3040]

Why are you focusing on weapon visibility which is of no relevance or importance whatsoever and can't be enforced in any way?

Why was random search removed? It was really the only practical thing about alert status and a focal point of incidental roleplaying. Without it you can remove alerts altogether, and replace all of them with "we're going home" status which shortens shuttle flight.

The random search text was removed because Saegrimir will try to ban you for performing random searches under red alert anyway.

while there are already supposed to be allowed under blue....

Really fires up those neurons.

[Saegrimr]

The random search text was removed because Saegrimr will try to ban you for performing random searches under red alert anyway.

Ah yes, the person defending being able to be shitsec in the other policy thread. Welcome, friendo.

[John_Oxford]

>implying saeg wont ban you for looking at him wrong or calling him a shitty pepsi loli fag

welcome to /tg/ friendo

[USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST]

[Saegrimr]

>implying saeg wont ban you for looking at him wrong or calling him a shitty pepsi loli fag

welcome to /tg/ friendo

You're next.

[CPTANT]

The random search text was removed because Saegrimr will try to ban you for performing random searches under red alert anyway.

Ah yes, the person defending being able to be shitsec in the other policy thread. Welcome, friendo.

I did no such thing and that isn't really relevant to people getting banned for random searches anyway.

[Saegrimr]

I did no such thing and that isn't really relevant to people getting banned for random searches anyway.

You can spin this however you like but your posts are still there and shit players will be dealt with before some coder decides the best way to fix it is by removing it or everything related to it.

[CPTANT]

I did no such thing and that isn't really relevant to people getting banned for random searches anyway.

You can spin this however you like but your posts are still there and shit players will be dealt with before some coder decides the best way to fix it is by removing it or everything related to it.

Perhaps it would help if you actually quoted the post in which I am defending being shitsec.

Post my horrible shitsec notes while you are at it.

[Saegrimr]

I'll quote the relevant post instead.

>CPTANT

shitty sec don't get enough admin attention

this thread isn't about shitters or security's victim complex/victimization depending on time of day, this is solely about players who get victimized by security and have no IC method of recourse

Being randomly grabbed out of the hallway and strip searched is pretty much this 100%
I don't wanna go back to SoS days of "Sec isn't allowed to do anything" but something's got to be done before this turns into another Secborg thread.

[CPTANT]

I'll quote the relevant post instead.

>CPTANT

shitty sec don't get enough admin attention

this thread isn't about shitters or security's victim complex/victimization depending on time of day, this is solely about players who get victimized by security and have no IC method of recourse

Being randomly grabbed out of the hallway and strip searched is pretty much this 100%
I don't wanna go back to SoS days of "Sec isn't allowed to do anything" but something's got to be done before this turns into another Secborg thread.

To which I replied:

I literally said that that is not the problem.

I said the problem is that admins punish people who deal with sec IC get treated to harshly

And tadaa, full circle

The random search text was removed because Saegrimr will try to ban you for performing random searches under red alert anyway.

[Saegrimr]

admins punish people who deal with sec

ban you for performing random searches

Clearly the only winning move here is to stop playing entirely.

[oranges]

The security seesaw has no END, it can be harnessed to provide INFINITE power

[Saegrimr]

Is a random search (not stripping) fine? Such as "Crew member 12 of the medical department! Halt and hand me your bag! I am also required to pat you down and feel up the insides of your pockets! Thank you for complying!" in whichever obnoxious or friendly manner it's said where all the officer does is mostly non-invasive or even just ask them to show what's in their pockets and not go so far as to touch the spessman strip screen to prove it?

That's what we're trying to find out.
We've had this very specific argument years ago and all it really led to was the host putting his boot up everybody's ass in the end.

And to tie this into the matter at hand. Does it matter on what alert level searches are done even if keeping in mind good sportsmanship? I imagine detaining before searching and even strip searching itself is just a reasonable response case-by-case though.

"Good sportsmanship" it's impossible these days.

Even ignoring that, they still weren't permitted before red alert. I already admitted I was too hasty in the earlier ban and lifted it but that did spark this topic in #adminbus and we all pretty much agreed it was something that needed changing, a first step towards cooling this circular bullshit of greytiding > shitcurity > tiding harder > executing entire station

[onleavedontatme]

You're missing the first and most important step in the cycle, which is conversion modes that require you to run a deathcamp, and security expectations and rules being completely eroded by the constant death match forcing them into a corner.

Those expectations are brought over into other modes.

As someone who has "mained" security for six years now, non antag crime is almost a non factor in my playstyle because its very manageable at this point in time.

[TehSteveo]

The security seesaw has no END, it can be harnessed to provide INFINITE power

Can we make an engine powered by security?

[Saegrimr]

The security seesaw has no END, it can be harnessed to provide INFINITE power

Can we make an engine powered by security?

Already ran this as a gimmick by spawning surgery table and plasma collector to the bridge and centcom messaging the station they have to strap someone down and beat the shit out of them to get the lights back on.

It was mediocre at best.

[Lumbermancer]

non antag crime is almost a non factor in my playstyle because its very manageable at this point in time.

Is it? I almost had half of the sec and some heads mutiny against me because as a HoS I decided to gulag a guy who started breaking windows at hop line fnr at round start.

[starmute]

non antag crime is almost a non factor in my playstyle because its very manageable at this point in time.

Is it? I almost had half of the sec and some heads mutiny against me because as a HoS I decided to gulag a guy who started breaking windows at hop line fnr at round start.

Were you the captain? If you are the captain it's best to leave security to their jobs. Regardless that sounds like a isolated incident.

[starmute]

I was under the impression that server rules forbid random searches on blue so having the announcement say it is is rather dumb.

Also nobody ever pays regards to security levels when it comes to having weapons visible. Running around with a gun in your hand is a sign of unrobustness anyway.

Perhaps something more in line with the actual reality of how the crew treats red alert would perhaps be more appropriate.

Actually thats a misconception about space law alert codes and rules. Space law is a role-playing suggestion. Same with the "code red/blue/green/delta".

The rules of the server are the only things actually applicable to if a player should get BWOINKED and banned. /tg/station is a mix between role-play and regular play. We don't take it so seriously when as a assistant you try to fight the syndicate instead of running away from them like a normal sane person would but we don't allow IC OOC.

[CPTANT]

I was under the impression that server rules forbid random searches on blue so having the announcement say it is is rather dumb.

Also nobody ever pays regards to security levels when it comes to having weapons visible. Running around with a gun in your hand is a sign of unrobustness anyway.

Perhaps something more in line with the actual reality of how the crew treats red alert would perhaps be more appropriate.

Actually thats a misconception about space law alert codes and rules. Space law is a role-playing suggestion. Same with the "code red/blue/green/delta".

The rules of the server are the only things actually applicable to if a player should get BWOINKED and banned. /tg/station is a mix between role-play and regular play. We don't take it so seriously when as a assistant you try to fight the syndicate instead of running away from them like a normal sane person would but we don't allow IC OOC.

Like I said the role playing suggestion is in direct conflict with the actual application of the rules.

[John_Oxford]

we should really just take a leap in either direction to light-rp or medium-rp and stick with it. it would resolve alot of conflicts.

make a poll, each side will elect one person to represent them in policy situations regarding light or medium rp.

i personally nominate my self to be the king of light rp. all of you niggers need to lighten up and understand its more about mechanics then salty traitors getting mad and bitching to coders because they got strip searched in a hallway during red alert.


light-rp:
secborgs
stun gloves
security policy based on that round's hos
weapons more lethal
stuns more prominent
security becomes steelpoint security with autorifles at round start and heavy combat armor in the armory

medium-rp:
no cyborgs except standards
stuns are removed
security policy is strictly enforced by the adminstration (sos tier)
weapons are made basically into stamina damage only
security becomes mallcops with only stun batons that do stamina damage

make the fucking choice, stop this madness.

[starmute]

Bloop

No we're fine as is. Read the server rules and try not to be a dick. Playing as a warden I've barely gotten a bloop for a year. I have admin helped one situation but I resolved it myself.

(I was perma-brigged by a warden who didn't like me trying to bribe the lizard bartender to try a medical experiment of me putting a lizard tail on him but I solved it IC by slipping him and perma-brigging him then letting his officers know when I was out of the brig area)

Problem solved. Also if shit like this happened to a player when I was admining I'd hook him up with a sweet escape device or something. Something that makes the round fun.

[onleavedontatme]

non antag crime is almost a non factor in my playstyle because its very manageable at this point in time.

Is it? I almost had half of the sec and some heads mutiny against me because as a HoS I decided to gulag a guy who started breaking windows at hop line fnr at round start.

A security mutiny is a bit harder to handle than breaking windows.

And if we considered breaking windows "grey tide" and banned for it, it would legitimatley ruin the game. Background drama and light non antag crime is needed or else security will just be standing by to swarm and execute the traitors when they so much as hack a door.

[kevinz000]

Really, red alert SAYS you can technically random search, but when's the last time you saw someone with lots of security experience stop everyone they see to randomly search them without reason? I'd like to think of red alert as giving me more leniency to have reason to search people, not as in I should be allowed to walk up to anyone at all even if they're doing their job the entire time and go HEY ON THE GROUND NOW UR GETTING SEARCHED LULZ!

[starmute]

Really, red alert SAYS you can technically random search, but when's the last time you saw someone with lots of security experience stop everyone they see to randomly search them without reason? I'd like to think of red alert as giving me more leniency to have reason to search people, not as in I should be allowed to walk up to anyone at all even if they're doing their job the entire time and go HEY ON THE GROUND NOW UR GETTING SEARCHED LULZ!

We all know that the response to that is stunning you and then tabling you.

[oranges]

since there's no consensus here I'm just gonna go ahead and remove the alert levels completely, except for red alert, which won't have an announcement and just be to speed up the shuttle

[DemonFiren]

Oranges' transformation into HG is now complete.

[CPTANT]

I personally would actually prefer removing the impact the alert level has on the shuttle timer and make it fluff only.

And make when its fluff only it could be activated by just the captain or HoS.

That way we may see alert levels more in line with what the command staff thinks of a situation and less of a cheap way to manipulate shuttle timers.

[Saegrimr]

Then it should probably start at the bottom and unlock more privileges/validhunting tools as you go up the alert levels with a side bit of fluff that implies greater authority of heads of staff/lower liberties of the crew.

I guess if you say, start at green, put tasers and the armoury's weaponry or entire contents behind blue alert and then work up from there or something?

I don't know.

This is literally the opposite of what he just suggested.

[Incomptinence]

The proposed changes to weapons visibility/drawn is both restrictive to sec dressing and divorced from how the game modes work. Don't discourage security from pulling their weapon out and using it is fucking sos style piñata doctrine almost, they need to be on hair trigger to fire on actual threats.

[Saegrimr]

The proposed changes to weapons visibility/drawn is both restrictive to sec dressing and divorced from how the game modes work. Don't discourage security from pulling their weapon out and using it is fucking sos style piñata doctrine almost, they need to be on hair trigger to fire on actual threats.

The weapons drawn thing has been around for a long time, just nobody cares, and even less people care to try and enforce that.

If anything, random greyshirts help enforce that by disarming you if you're an idiot running through the halls with your baton out.

[CPTANT]

Often it is also super obvious that someone is just messing with the alert status.

When a cult is murdering half the station nobody goes: "ohw hey I guess everything is fine now"

[Bombadil]

I don't like the idea of removing random search in the alerts.

Now we could just have sec run around strip searching people whenever they want and not even need a reason.

[Cobby]

I don't like the idea of removing random search in the alerts.

Now we could just have sec run around strip searching people whenever they want and not even need a reason.

I think the concept here is to never state that sec can randomly search someone, although most of that stuff goes through the door anyways when you're starting the cargotration camp.

[Rockdtben]

I prefer the good investigative approach and when sec levels are elevated to have officers work in pairs to prevent them from disappearing. Kinda like pair programming.

It has been pretty effective so far, but sometimes you get some a-holes officers who don't respect the HOS or Warden and then at the end of the round you get "Wow sec sucked that round."

Random searches is derp cause it makes sec about being powerhungomurderboners

[oranges]

Rare rock collected

[DemonFiren]

Pet rock.
Be sure to feed it regularly.

[kevinz000]

I just noticed Bagil's blue alert text allows for randomsearches again, what's up with that?