Ghosting, when is it ok?

[Weepo]

Basically I just copped an hourban because some shitheel admin was looking for an excuse after I ghosted out on his security power trip, I gotta wonder, when is it ok to ghost, officially? I know ghosting is fine to do as any random assistant, means nothing if you just ghost in your office or whatnot.

But is ghosting out in the brig / permabrig after getting arrested, thus denying some sec officer his ERP opportunities so wrong? See I was under the impression ghosting was ok to do any time whenever because honestly, why wouldn't it be? Its not good, it kicks you out of your body, its basically 'the fun stops here for me' which is usually why you use it. If some nerd is locking you down in the maint tunnels with handcuffs and keeping you morphined? Ghost out, if you're being 'arrested' for half an hour by security, getting dragged around / buckled to make sure you don't get a chance to resist, just ghost. If you got cuffed by beepsky and the clown is dragging you around handcuffed making sure you can't leave and the admins aren't helping you, just ghost.

But I guess what I'm asking / saying is that there needs to a ghosting policy. Even if it is just 'yeah its ok to ghost whenever' or 'don't ghost while arrested unless you're absolutely sure they've forgotten about you' or whatever.

[ShadowDimentio]

If you actually got banned for ghosting out of a sec punishment you need to make a complaint because that's not okay. I bet there was another, better reason though.

[Shaps-cloud]

I very strongly doubt that's how it played out

[Weepo]

If you actually got banned for ghosting out of a sec punishment you need to make a complaint because that's not okay. I bet there was another, better reason though.

Apparently I also threatened them with adminhelping by saying 'I'm speaking with a higher power' once while they were slowly stripping me, even though I mostly said it as a justification for why I wasn't being a more active participant in their frankly creepy power trip.

I'd make a complaint but honestly, its an hour ban.

[Saegrimr]

"Banned for 60 minutes - You know what, don't threaten to ahelp someone in IC chat and then ghost out. Seriously?"

Good job.

[Weepo]

"Banned for 60 minutes - You know what, don't threaten to ahelp someone in IC chat and then ghost out. Seriously?"

Good job.

Yep thats the note, good work.


Anyway can I get a word on the actual yaknow, topic, when is it ok to ghost? when is it not?

[onleavedontatme]

If you need to leave as a head of staff or antagonist tell an admin first.

Otherwise just leave whenever.

[captain sawrge]

It's never OK unless you do a funny me verb emote along with it

[Krusvik]

If you need to leave as a head of staff or antagonist tell an admin first.

Otherwise just leave whenever.

Pretty much this, just to confirm.

[Lumbermancer]

If you need to leave as a head of staff or antagonist tell an admin first.

Otherwise just leave whenever.

Pretty much this, just to confirm.

You forgot AI.

[Screemonster]

I think the 60 minute ban here was for ock-ick, not for ghosting.

[Okand37]

To reiterate in a final constant:

As kor and krusvik have said, if you're playing as a head of staff, antagonist, AI, or other important role (centcom, event role, etc) please make sure you check in via adminhelping that you need to go! Otherwise, in almost all cases, you're more than welcome to ghost!

The aforementioned ban, as it is mentioned, is primarily for OOC'ing in IC, the ghosting out was more of a cherry on top. Generally if you threaten that you're going to adminhelp someone then ghost out and adminhelp it, its a bit redundant as you've already ghosted out.

[Lumbermancer]

AI.

Except when enforcing Law 1.

[Saegrimr]

Pretty sure we've had thing about ghosting out when implanted from conversion rounds but fuck me if anything is coherent.

[Lumbermancer]

This falls under "ahelp", whereupon admin will tell you no, you can't ghost.

[CPTANT]

This entire thread is someone being banned for OCKY ICKY and not understanding why that is bad.

[TehSteveo]

Pretty sure we've had thing about ghosting out when implanted from conversion rounds but fuck me if anything is coherent.

Yeah. Ghosting out after being implanted by command/sec is pretty much the same as ghosting out after being converted to a team antagonist.

[Iatots]

Pretty sure we've had thing about ghosting out when implanted from conversion rounds but fuck me if anything is coherent.

Yeah. Ghosting out after being implanted by command/sec is pretty much the same as ghosting out after being converted to a team antagonist.

You mean ghosting out after being implanted, right?

[TehSteveo]

Pretty sure we've had thing about ghosting out when implanted from conversion rounds but fuck me if anything is coherent.

Yeah. Ghosting out after being implanted by command/sec is pretty much the same as ghosting out after being converted to a team antagonist.

You mean ghosting out after being implanted, right?

Yes. It's what I said, yet also ghosting out when being caught and before being implanted is kind of a dick move as well...which may warrant a warning if someone does that consistently anytime they are caught as it seems they want to play one way and not the other.

[Bob Dobbington]

What I do when I see ahelps about braindead / AFK converts/team antags is offer their mobs up to ghosts. That way, some ghost gets free antag and the syndicate cultvolution isn't out a team member. It's a win-win for everyone. Maybe we should have a policy of it being okay to ask for that if you don't wish to play your antag role, and then publicise that policy. We already do self requested antag bans; don't those effectively do the same thing of kicking you out of your mob and offering it to ghosts? I imagine coderbus could even automate the process.

[TehSteveo]

What I do when I see ahelps about braindead / AFK converts/team antags is offer their mobs up to ghosts. That way, some ghost gets free antag and the syndicate cultvolution isn't out a team member. It's a win-win for everyone. Maybe we should have a policy of it being okay to ask for that if you don't wish to play your antag role, and then publicise that policy. We already do self requested antag bans; don't those effectively do the same thing of kicking you out of your mob and offering it to ghosts? I imagine coderbus could even automate the process.

Rule five covers it but it isn't completely concise to where we stand now. I will likely rewrite it to cover the ghosting as round start Head of Staff, AI/Sillicon, and anything involved in conversion modes(Revolution, Gang, Blood Cult, Clockcult, Nukeops, and even AI if a borging machine is involved). At least some effort should be put in to play those roles and some effort taken if you have to leave or don't want to play to inform us. At which point we'll decide the best course of action if it's just letting them leave, offering control to ghosts, or finding someone to replace them.

[kevinz000]

Basically I just copped an hourban because some shitheel admin was looking for an excuse after I ghosted out on his security power trip, I gotta wonder, when is it ok to ghost, officially? I know ghosting is fine to do as any random assistant, means nothing if you just ghost in your office or whatnot.

But is ghosting out in the brig / permabrig after getting arrested, thus denying some sec officer his ERP opportunities so wrong? See I was under the impression ghosting was ok to do any time whenever because honestly, why wouldn't it be? Its not good, it kicks you out of your body, its basically 'the fun stops here for me' which is usually why you use it. If some nerd is locking you down in the maint tunnels with handcuffs and keeping you morphined? Ghost out, if you're being 'arrested' for half an hour by security, getting dragged around / buckled to make sure you don't get a chance to resist, just ghost. If you got cuffed by beepsky and the clown is dragging you around handcuffed making sure you can't leave and the admins aren't helping you, just ghost.

But I guess what I'm asking / saying is that there needs to a ghosting policy. Even if it is just 'yeah its ok to ghost whenever' or 'don't ghost while arrested unless you're absolutely sure they've forgotten about you' or whatever.

1. I was not playing that round, and admins do not handle their own ahelps.
2. You threatened "higher action" against someone in game. OOC in IC, threatening ahelps
3. I told you to stop, you blew up and yelled at me in all caps
4. Told you to drop your attitude
5. "Fuck this", ghosted out1
While I will admit a ban wasn't completely necessary, you do need to calm down, and not misrepresent the situation.
If some random schmuck ghosted out I probably wouldn't care. If they did it just to roll for antag, or if they're doing it all the time as a job role, I might. If you ghost out in permabrig, I wouldn't care. Causing shit and ghost out in brig is a different case but that's just more for causing shit and leaving when it comes back to you. Threatening to ahelp someone IC and then blowing up in the admin's face when told to stop that and then ghosting out? That's different.

[BeeSting12]

I always laugh at people who threaten ahelps IC and then double their punishment. It's like the biggest sign that someone's from the hub.

[Armhulen]

I always laugh at people who threaten ahelps IC and then double their punishment. It's like the biggest sign that someone's from hippie.

[bandit]

Our ghosting policy is fine but I don't like this trend of using policy discussion as ban appeals.

[TehSteveo]

Our ghosting policy is fine but I don't like this trend of using policy discussion as ban appeals.

Also complaints. To be honest I should can this thread but it did bring attention to making rule five more clear. Even if the thread was some pseudo admin complaint.

[oranges]

trying to apply rules to ghosting is bad because you can't force someone to play the game when they don't want to

[Screemonster]

Would it be feasable to add a "ghost and offer mob" button for anyone playing a head, antagonist, or recently changed teams (converted, deconverted, implanted, whatever)?

Or just put "offer body to observers" as one of the options on the ghost confirmation dialog, perhaps? Trying to think of possible abuses that would be a reason not to do it.

[Lumbermancer]

trying to apply rules to ghosting is bad because you can't force someone to play the game when they don't want to

You clearly can, it's also really easy to not play if you don't want to play.

[oranges]

trying to apply rules to ghosting is bad because you can't force someone to play the game when they don't want to

You clearly can, it's also really easy to not play if you don't want to play.

No you can't, I can just go afk and stop playing rather than ghost, same net effect.

I can close the game and say it was a network fault and you can't prove otherwise for trying to enforce bans.

You can't force someone to play the game if they dont' want to, that's silly.

[Lumbermancer]

No you can't, I can just go afk and stop playing rather than ghost, same net effect.

But why? That's just petty. Why not simply ahelp and transfer antag to someone, or even let admin unlock head slot for new person?

[imblyings]

admins can't force players to play and players can't force admins to not give them consequences for abandoning important roles like team antag or less important roles like silicon/head of staff constantly

shit like ghosting the moment you get culted (while understandable) isn't sportsmanlike and sportsmanship being one of the few objectively good things around here, if a player won't do it willingly, admins will step in. It's not like we even want them to play if they don't want to, plenty of admins have said already they just need to take sub 10 seconds to say I'm leaving find someone else.

honestly this is a fucking awful meme thread, should've been locked and weepo rule 0'd for being a faggot

[Shadowlight213]

trying to apply rules to ghosting is bad because you can't force someone to play the game when they don't want to

You clearly can, it's also really easy to not play if you don't want to play.

No you can't, I can just go afk and stop playing rather than ghost, same net effect.

I can close the game and say it was a network fault and you can't prove otherwise for trying to enforce bans.

You can't force someone to play the game if they dont' want to, that's silly.

Ghosting and closing the game are two completely different things.
Unlike closing the game, you are still observing the round and interacting with other people in deadchat. You are still PLAYING THE GAME. You are playing as a ghost.
Plus, now we have tons of ghost roles that let you hop back in as something else.
I mean, if ghosting put you in nullspace and disabled your ghost hearing and talking, then maybe it would be the same thing.

[firecage]

Our ghosting policy is fine but I don't like this trend of using policy discussion as ban appeals.

Also complaints. To be honest I should can this thread but it did bring attention to making rule five more clear. Even if the thread was some pseudo admin complaint.

And ban requests aswell.

[Alipheese]

Why is this even a discussion? Always ghost.

[onleavedontatme]

trying to apply rules to ghosting is bad because you can't force someone to play the game when they don't want to

You clearly can, it's also really easy to not play if you don't want to play.

No you can't, I can just go afk and stop playing rather than ghost, same net effect.

I can close the game and say it was a network fault and you can't prove otherwise for trying to enforce bans.

You can't force someone to play the game if they dont' want to, that's silly.

Ghosting and closing the game are two completely different things.
Unlike closing the game, you are still observing the round and interacting with other people in deadchat. You are still PLAYING THE GAME. You are playing as a ghost.
Plus, now we have tons of ghost roles that let you hop back in as something else.
I mean, if ghosting put you in nullspace and disabled your ghost hearing and talking, then maybe it would be the same thing.

Who cares if someone decides they aren't having fun as captain anymore and wants to go poke things with a stick as a tribal lizard? Videogames are meant for fun. As long as they tell an admin first and don't strip in the middle of the hallway there isn't an issue.

[Weepo]

No but if I'm a sec officer and I wanna get my jollies beating a 2d spaceman and they ghost out on me how will I cum?

[Weepo]

Basically I just copped an hourban because some shitheel admin was looking for an excuse after I ghosted out on his security power trip, I gotta wonder, when is it ok to ghost, officially? I know ghosting is fine to do as any random assistant, means nothing if you just ghost in your office or whatnot.

But is ghosting out in the brig / permabrig after getting arrested, thus denying some sec officer his ERP opportunities so wrong? See I was under the impression ghosting was ok to do any time whenever because honestly, why wouldn't it be? Its not good, it kicks you out of your body, its basically 'the fun stops here for me' which is usually why you use it. If some nerd is locking you down in the maint tunnels with handcuffs and keeping you morphined? Ghost out, if you're being 'arrested' for half an hour by security, getting dragged around / buckled to make sure you don't get a chance to resist, just ghost. If you got cuffed by beepsky and the clown is dragging you around handcuffed making sure you can't leave and the admins aren't helping you, just ghost.

But I guess what I'm asking / saying is that there needs to a ghosting policy. Even if it is just 'yeah its ok to ghost whenever' or 'don't ghost while arrested unless you're absolutely sure they've forgotten about you' or whatever.

1. I was not playing that round, and admins do not handle their own ahelps.
2. You threatened "higher action" against someone in game. OOC in IC, threatening ahelps
3. I told you to stop, you blew up and yelled at me in all caps
4. Told you to drop your attitude
5. "Fuck this", ghosted out1
While I will admit a ban wasn't completely necessary, you do need to calm down, and not misrepresent the situation.
If some random schmuck ghosted out I probably wouldn't care. If they did it just to roll for antag, or if they're doing it all the time as a job role, I might. If you ghost out in permabrig, I wouldn't care. Causing shit and ghost out in brig is a different case but that's just more for causing shit and leaving when it comes back to you. Threatening to ahelp someone IC and then blowing up in the admin's face when told to stop that and then ghosting out? That's different.

Hey look its said shitheel admin, I said I was' communicating with a higher power', yaknow, in order to explain IC why I wasn't responding to the asshole hitting me as opposed to the asshole talking to me in my head. You told me to 'drop the attitude' after getting all bitchy at me despite me being the one requesting help than you banned me for ghosting along with a bunch of other made up bullshit and now you're accusing me of 'misrepresenting' out of hand without proof.

Why the fuck are you like this?

[kevinz000]

Basically I just copped an hourban because some shitheel admin was looking for an excuse after I ghosted out on his security power trip, I gotta wonder, when is it ok to ghost, officially? I know ghosting is fine to do as any random assistant, means nothing if you just ghost in your office or whatnot.

But is ghosting out in the brig / permabrig after getting arrested, thus denying some sec officer his ERP opportunities so wrong? See I was under the impression ghosting was ok to do any time whenever because honestly, why wouldn't it be? Its not good, it kicks you out of your body, its basically 'the fun stops here for me' which is usually why you use it. If some nerd is locking you down in the maint tunnels with handcuffs and keeping you morphined? Ghost out, if you're being 'arrested' for half an hour by security, getting dragged around / buckled to make sure you don't get a chance to resist, just ghost. If you got cuffed by beepsky and the clown is dragging you around handcuffed making sure you can't leave and the admins aren't helping you, just ghost.

But I guess what I'm asking / saying is that there needs to a ghosting policy. Even if it is just 'yeah its ok to ghost whenever' or 'don't ghost while arrested unless you're absolutely sure they've forgotten about you' or whatever.

1. I was not playing that round, and admins do not handle their own ahelps.
2. You threatened "higher action" against someone in game. OOC in IC, threatening ahelps
3. I told you to stop, you blew up and yelled at me in all caps
4. Told you to drop your attitude
5. "Fuck this", ghosted out1
While I will admit a ban wasn't completely necessary, you do need to calm down, and not misrepresent the situation.
If some random schmuck ghosted out I probably wouldn't care. If they did it just to roll for antag, or if they're doing it all the time as a job role, I might. If you ghost out in permabrig, I wouldn't care. Causing shit and ghost out in brig is a different case but that's just more for causing shit and leaving when it comes back to you. Threatening to ahelp someone IC and then blowing up in the admin's face when told to stop that and then ghosting out? That's different.

Hey look its said shitheel admin, I said I was' communicating with a higher power', yaknow, in order to explain IC why I wasn't responding to the asshole hitting me as opposed to the asshole talking to me in my head. You told me to 'drop the attitude' after getting all bitchy at me despite me being the one requesting help than you banned me for ghosting along with a bunch of other made up bullshit and now you're accusing me of 'misrepresenting' out of hand without proof.

Why the fuck are you like this?

sure man.
edit - oh and you forgot about yelling at me in all caps about why ooc in ic matters.

[Cw3040]

No but if I'm a sec officer and I wanna get my jollies beating a 2d spaceman and they ghost out on me how will I cum?

Hope you like blue balls.

[Screemonster]

Hey look its said shitheel admin, I said I was' communicating with a higher power', yaknow, in order to explain IC why I wasn't responding to the asshole hitting me as opposed to the asshole talking to me in my head. You told me to 'drop the attitude' after getting all bitchy at me despite me being the one requesting help than you banned me for ghosting along with a bunch of other made up bullshit and now you're accusing me of 'misrepresenting' out of hand without proof.

Why the fuck are you like this?

after you throw a tantrum like this over somebody doing their job (and yes, giving you a timeout for breaking the rules, in this case OOC in IC, is their job on this server) how do you expect any admin or player to give you the time of day?
Like, why the hell should anyone put up with you?

Or as crag put it

1. HOW LONG IS THE BAN? IF IT'S LESS THAN A DAY, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU EVEN APPEAL IT? IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A FUCKING COLICKY INFANT SHITTING ALL OVER THE BOARD AND TRYING TO STIR UP A FIGHT. SIT OUT OF SPACEMANS FOR A COUPLE HOURS, YOU TITHEAD (or join another server).

[TheNightingale]

I might be in the minority here, but I don't think the length of the ban matters when appealing it. If the ban is invalid, it shouldn't be given at all (it's a permanent note on someone's record), so appealing a short ban isn't about "hey can you let me play faster" so much as the principle of it.

[kevinz000]

Ban wasn't for ghosting it's for ooc in IC and screaming at me in all caps when told to watch it. Ban should of been shorter but I believe my point is made.

[Arianya]

I might be in the minority here, but I don't think the length of the ban matters when appealing it. If the ban is invalid, it shouldn't be given at all (it's a permanent note on someone's record), so appealing a short ban isn't about "hey can you let me play faster" so much as the principle of it.

Agreed, but theres a difference between "I think this ban was entirely invalid and is a black mark on my record I don't deserve" and "I think the admin was wrong to give me as long of a ban as he did for this rule infraction I admittedly did"

Hey look its said shitheel admin, I said I was' communicating with a higher power', yaknow, in order to explain IC why I wasn't responding to the asshole hitting me as opposed to the asshole talking to me in my head. You told me to 'drop the attitude' after getting all bitchy at me despite me being the one requesting help than you banned me for ghosting along with a bunch of other made up bullshit and now you're accusing me of 'misrepresenting' out of hand without proof.

Why the fuck are you like this?

lmao, if you think this is at all a good idea.

a) Calling an admin "shitheel" only serves to make you look bad, especially when said admin is trying to explain things to you in a civil manner
b) Just don't refer to OOC shit in IC, especially not in passive aggresive attempts to intimidate others.
c) Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If you start getting lippy with an admin, they're entirely entitled to return the attitude with interest.
d) You've not provided any proof yourself, so I'm not sure why you're calling out others on not providing proof.

e: Also this is basically a ghetto Admin Complaint so can we just move it there or salt reserve it? It ceased being about "ghosting policy" a while ago.

[TehSteveo]

I'm locking this is I've updated Rule 5 and it's precedent to be a little more clear. It's served its purpose as it's now back to being a shitty admin complaint.