/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:37 am**

Just had a wizard round, where the wizard summoned spell books and it gave someone or a group of people the spell "Mindswap".

A player decided to mind-swap me as I was the HoS (Nothing lead up to it, they ran up to me in the bridge while I was getting access on my ID) I ahelp about how the said person I doubt was an antag (They weren't) and was told the admin can't do much because of the very little/vague rules on using Mind swap as an non-antag on non-antagonists.

So please, can we get some ground rules for people doing this to grief? Atleast treat it as breaking rule 1 and being an outright dick to someone to steal all of their things/attempt to.

Also to note, the person who mind-swapped was called out to have a lynch mob on them (For some reason, I only saw it in common once) so I'm assuming they attempted to mindswap to avoid being killed and instead force another player out of the round.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:47 am**

Murder.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:54 am**

Saegrimr wrote:Murder.

But then everyone else just see's someone murdering someone else and 90% of the time dont ask "Why are you doing dat thing to them?" For you to say "He mindswapped me" but then they probably wouldn't believe you.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:07 am**

then you lose. Welcome to wizard rounds, grab some popcorn and enjoy deadchat.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:12 am**

Still needs to have some ground rules on being a non-antag and using mindswap on other non-antagonists just because you get it from random spells event.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:28 am**

No there really doesn't need to be a rule for this.

The only applicable rule here is rule 10.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:50 am**

I love rule 10

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:11 am**

Yeah, rule 10 still this regards breaking rule one, Dont be a dick. If you're a non antagonist, why are you using mind swap in the first place on someone you know is obviously not an antagonist. Thats what needs to be discussed, whether or not being given the random spell book allows you to just use said spell on random people.

If we're going with the rule 10 logic, that just means you can go around killing people with fireball spell you get from the spellbook doesn't it?

>Mindswapping someone means taking all of their belongings and basically getting away scott free because there's no way to prove someone mind swapped you.
>Killing people with lethal spells you get as a non antag, and kill random people means taking them out of the round.

Mind swapping someone is basically saying, "Fuck you, I'm going to use this spell to take all the shit you're doing and put it to a halt, and almost take you out of the round, but you're still technically playing so I can't get banned for it."

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:18 am**

the logic is, why do we have code that lets antags give spells to nonantags to cause chaos but then have rules that tell people to not use those spells

this isn't a policy thing, it's a code problem, people who get spells should just be given antag, same with people who get guns but don't get survivalist

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:52 am**

If the code made everyone it gave spells/guns to an antag then everyone would be an antag and sec could just go on a murderous valid hunting rampage.

Getting mindswap/fireball etc isn't a bad thing as a non-antag, because you can fuck over the wiz using it or do like oldman did and mindswap the slaughter demon.

But in my case, getting mindswapped by a non-antag for absolutely no reason other than "Lol i want to be you and ruin your round" is stupid and needs to have rules/policy on making people actually not be a dick.

How is it already not breaking rule 1 to do so?

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:02 am**

it doesn't have to be a full antag license

it can be done similar to abductor antag licenses, where they can be shits by abducting but not kill or grief

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:19 am**

imblyings wrote:the logic is, why do we have code that lets antags give spells to nonantags to cause chaos but then have rules that tell people to not use those spells

this isn't a policy thing, it's a code problem, people who get spells should just be given antag, same with people who get guns but don't get survivalist

Non-antag gun recievers are targets for gun theft and crew who should mostly keep doing their job. Can;t have literally everyone abandon job to shoot shit eh?

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:44 pm**

imblyings wrote:the logic is, why do we have code that lets antags give spells to nonantags to cause chaos but then have rules that tell people to not use those spells

this isn't a policy thing, it's a code problem, people who get spells should just be given antag, same with people who get guns but don't get survivalist

Summon spells creates a few antags, I think the idea is that those who don't get antag may use their spells to focus on hunting down the wizard, thus creating a downside to the spell. Whereas if everyone got antag, the station would devolve into utter chaos and the spell would become too OP

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:46 pm**

If you get mindswap'd go hunt down and kill the faggot that did it, especially if the crew was already aggro on them, don't go sobbing to admins about the big meanie that stole your face.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:59 pm**

Fuck off, I love mind swapping fucking every one and watching the chaos.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:25 pm**

Haevacht wrote: Non-antag gun recievers are targets for gun theft and crew who should mostly keep doing their job. Can;t have literally everyone abandon job to shoot shit eh?

>hey sucks to be you you're the unlucky chum who didn't roll survivalist, your role is to """do your job""""" in a round that will end any second but we also want you to stand around and get shot

That's not how it really works, most people go ';fucking wizards' and stop doing their jobs and mill around until the round ends. Not all survivalists stop doing their job either, some people don't become psychopaths and do protect their department gimmicks with their guns despite antag status. I deal with the lowest common denominator but even then I believe there are enough nice players on this server that making everyone antag wouldn't ruin the round further than a wizard summoning guns already does.

Grazyn wrote: Summon spells creates a few antags, I think the idea is that those who don't get antag may use their spells to focus on hunting down the wizard, thus creating a downside to the spell. Whereas if everyone got antag, the station would devolve into utter chaos and the spell would become too OP

Some of them will still be gunning for the wizard- if it really is a concern, it's just a matter of changing some of their objectives from causing chaos to killing the wizard.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:32 pm**

I dream of a server where people can fight and kill eachother without needing to be given a specific license to do so, but they do it out of spirit of the game and for the sake of fun rather than malicious intent.

Is such a server possible?

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:46 pm**

imblyings wrote:
Haevacht wrote: Non-antag gun recievers are targets for gun theft and crew who should mostly keep doing their job. Can;t have literally everyone abandon job to shoot shit eh?
Some of them will still be gunning for the wizard- if it really is a concern, it's just a matter of changing some of their objectives from causing chaos to killing the wizard.

This wouldn't change anything since most players don't care about objectives, as long as they're "antags" they have free pass to do anything so they'll still be killing their fellow man. See slaughter demons who'd rather kill the whole station and ignore the wizard even though their prime objective is to kill the wizard.

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:22 pm**

Wyzack wrote:I dream of a server where people can fight and kill eachother without needing to be given a specific license to do so, but they do it out of spirit of the game and for the sake of fun rather than malicious intent.

Is such a server possible?

come back 5 years ago

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:34 pm**

Gotta get back

Get back to the past

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:24 pm**

Wyzack wrote:I dream of a server where people can fight and kill eachother without needing to be given a specific license to do so, but they do it out of spirit of the game and for the sake of fun rather than malicious intent.

Is such a server possible?

Now

Posted: **Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:40 pm**

Wyzack wrote:I dream of a server where people can fight and kill eachother without needing to be given a specific license to do so, but they do it out of spirit of the game and for the sake of fun rather than malicious intent.

Is such a server possible?

make this server what you want it to be

with the magical IC issue button on ahelps

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:53 am**

it's a wizard round man just buckle up and enjoy the ride, also hope that the wizard doesn't use shit tactics and otherwise hope the admins will intervene to fuck up shitwizs

Posted: **Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:53 am**

Wizard rounds are just shitty in general, buckle up and do your best to enjoy them. A player was given an item/spell as a result of an antags actions so unless you can prove they were intentionally using it to grief, their actions are more or less valid.

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:53 pm**

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:then you lose. Welcome to wizard rounds, grab some popcorn and enjoy deadchat.

what a shitty stance to take on the subject

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:55 pm**

See: rule 10.

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:12 pm**

Wyzack wrote:I dream of a server where people can fight and kill eachother without needing to be given a specific license to do so, but they do it out of spirit of the game and for the sake of fun rather than malicious intent.

Is such a server possible?

Just do a few death match rounds if you want pure anarchy with everyone just randomly killing eachother. Personally I'd find it amusing if people actually killed eachother in creative ways like the tune some guy kidnapped me and a bunch of other people and executed them via emitters, or like this one time where I created lethal meth grenades that completely fucked people's movement and caused them to twitch and flail around before quickly falling into crit and dying shortly after.

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:55 pm**

cocothegogo wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:then you lose. Welcome to wizard rounds, grab some popcorn and enjoy deadchat.
what a shitty stance to take on the subject

You made the choice to escalate it to lethals.

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:16 pm**

I think you are both missing my point. The whole idea of it being an unobtainable dream is that it wouldn't devolve into random griff

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:12 pm**

Wyzack wrote:I think you are both missing my point. The whole idea of it being an unobtainable dream is that it wouldn't devolve into random griff

Isn't that the most enjoyable part of the station going to hell in a handbasket though? Some of my most enjoyable memories on the station were probably a form of "grief", but the difference is when I got inconvenienced I laughed over it [or at most whined in OOC post round] instead of asking for them to be removed from the server [some exceptions ofc]. Hell, that's when there were no ghost roles besides immobile pAI.

I dunno I feel like some light-hearted griff acting as a monotony breaker between fighting antags and being antags is a good thing, people just need to be a little bit more light-hearted over a video game.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:53 pm**

This is a zero RP server. There is no you.
If you get mind-swapped as an important role by a non-antag, there is virtually no difference for a crew that doesn't care who you are. Your only hope is to appeal at their valid gland, and hope that by proving your ""identity"" in some way (ex: reference earlier occurrence, repeat a conversation) they will get an itch strong enough to engage in actions which will coincidentally prove useful to you. Or metabuddies.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:08 pm**

Iatots wrote:This is a zero RP server. There is no you.

Look, we can argue about RP levels all day, but if you genuinely believe this is a "zero RP server" you're kidding yourself. IC and OOC have distinctions, people have personas that they enjoy consistently playing as, etc.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:18 pm**

Qbopper wrote:
Iatots wrote:This is a zero RP server. There is no you.
Look, we can argue about RP levels all day, but if you genuinely believe this is a "zero RP server" you're kidding yourself. IC and OOC have distinctions, people have personas that they enjoy consistently playing as, etc.

IC and OOC have distinctions yes, but you are grabbing the stick from the wrong end because there is no RP involved, and there hasn't been for a while.
Games have a design, a way to play them that is essential for the game to be enjoyable and maintain a win/loss condition, and to create a decent experience players must follow this design: they must follow rules governing their behavior.
You can't run with the ball under your arm in basketball like it's rugby because the game centers around the techniques of throwing the ball around.
You can't reach into the bank in Monopoly when you run out of cash, because the win/loss state is dictated by your capital.
You can't share information from the current round with others, because information and misinformation are an important mechanic of the game.
IC in OOC is not ok because it's used for cheating. You won't get kicked out of the house for throwing the wrong dice once, but the rule is there for gameplay reasons.
OOC in IC, that half of rule 3 might as be an addendum to rule 1: OOC in IC is always ok, except when you are *excessively* annoying.
It's not OOC in IC when an AI calls itself SHODAN or MOTHER. Neither it is with HAL9000 and GLaDOS, but expect a name change and teasing by the crew.
It's not OOC in IC when someone has a name from a B-movie character, so improbable that it doesn't appear once on the US census.
It's not even OOC in IC when you are literally a belligerant assistant named "Grey Tide", not because meme magic made the grey-tide meme IC retroactively, but because nobody really cares.
It's only not OK when you jerk your OOC hand so forcefully you push people away from the board and break the escapism, that's why people don't/can't discuss about sports or movies or whatever ICly: because it's a direct recall to reality and a break of escapism.
If you want to use your imagination you are free to do it, it is even encouraged, but the real, only rule is not to turn the lights on.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:52 pm**

Iatots wrote:
Qbopper wrote:
Iatots wrote:This is a zero RP server. There is no you.
Look, we can argue about RP levels all day, but if you genuinely believe this is a "zero RP server" you're kidding yourself. IC and OOC have distinctions, people have personas that they enjoy consistently playing as, etc.
IC and OOC have distinctions yes, but you are grabbing the stick from the wrong end because there is no RP involved, and there hasn't been for a while.
Games have a design, a way to play them that is essential for the game to be enjoyable and maintain a win/loss condition, and to create a decent experience players must follow this design: they must follow rules governing their behavior.
You can't run with the ball under your arm in basketball like it's rugby because the game centers around the techniques of throwing the ball around.
You can't reach into the bank in Monopoly when you run out of cash, because the win/loss state is dictated by your capital.
You can't share information from the current round with others, because information and misinformation are an important mechanic of the game.
IC in OOC is not ok because it's used for cheating. You won't get kicked out of the house for throwing the wrong dice once, but the rule is there for gameplay reasons.
OOC in IC, that half of rule 3 might as be an addendum to rule 1: OOC in IC is always ok, except when you are *excessively* annoying.
It's not OOC in IC when an AI calls itself SHODAN or MOTHER. Neither it is with HAL9000 and GLaDOS, but expect a name change and teasing by the crew.
It's not OOC in IC when someone has a name from a B-movie character, so improbable that it doesn't appear once on the US census.
It's not even OOC in IC when you are literally a belligerant assistant named "Grey Tide", not because meme magic made the grey-tide meme IC retroactively, but because nobody really cares.
It's only not OK when you jerk your OOC hand so forcefully you push people away from the board and break the escapism, that's why people don't/can't discuss about sports or movies or whatever ICly: because it's a direct recall to reality and a break of escapism.
If you want to use your imagination you are free to do it, it is even encouraged, but the real, only rule is not to turn the lights on.

Which server do you think you're playing on?

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:01 pm**

Hippiestation circa late 2015.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:04 pm**

Iatots wrote:Hippiestation circa late 2015.

You've done a better job of describing that than you have TG.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:06 pm**

Iatots wrote:Hippiestation circa late 2015.

Hahaha god forbid

Posted: **Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:50 am**

cedarbridge wrote:
Iatots wrote:Hippiestation circa late 2015.
You've done a better job of describing that than you have TG.

Posted: **Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:19 am**

>it's a "quote tree with no actual discussion" episode.

Posted: **Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:36 am**

how are you enjoying hippie?

Posted: **Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:05 pm**

Iatots wrote:>it's a "quote tree with no actual discussion" episode.

Posted: **Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:18 pm**

calzilla1 wrote:
Iatots wrote:>it's a "quote tree with no actual discussion" episode.

/tg/Station 13

Mindswap as a non-antagonist on non-antagonists

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