/tg/Station 13

Post Content:
Byond account and character name: Armhulenn - Syndicate Forger
Banning admin:thunder12345
Ban type (What are you banned from?):Note appeal
Ban reason and length: Warned - Trying to blow up lavaland syndicate base just after shuttle got called
Time ban was placed (including time zone):2017-02-24 13:27:15
Your side of the story: I started the self destruct device when the shuttle was called, and was bwoinked. Not much to say really
Why you think you should be unbanned:
Joined at 12:57.
Blew bombs at 13:23.
Didn't just join, blow bombs and leave.
nobody else on the base, so I wasn't screwing them over either
let me give you a rundown of the round at that point:
Tesloose, Shuttle was called, sure. But here's my problem with the note.

>just after shuttle got called

This is simply not true. Not only was there actually no chance of recall (bridge blown up by tesla, I believe), but by the time me and thunder stopped talking, the shuttle was beyond the point of recall. We weren't talking for five minutes.
I don't know how to find when the shuttle was called in the logs. I don't have access to the conversation me and thunder have. But this note is wrong, and if anyone knows how to show when the shuttle was called in the logs, that would be great to show when it was called. I also point out some good points on the state of the round in adminhelp, if someone could get that too.

Blowing up the base when there's still 10-15 minutes of round left even if they don't recall is dumb, and just because you were the only person at the time doesn't mean someone else won't want to join even for a few minutes.

You got told it wasn't a good idea, there was a note to say you'd been told about it, so I really don't see any reason to remove it.

Victimless "crime"

But it wasn't 10-15. We had an at most 2 minute conversation and by the time you were done it was byond recall anyways. I had the camera console, I saw at eight minutes that the bridge was destroyed and I doubted someone was going to go to tech storage for a recall.

grieffing before the end of the round because the round was coming to a close has never been acceptable though, I'm not sure why it wouldn't apply simply because you're a ghost role.

It's not griff, at most it denies four minutes of chemistry and or virology. Reminder that nobody spawned for the 30 minutes I played, even after the catastrophic round ending events no ghosts joined.

"it was right before round ended" is a dumb argument and wrong. Stop applying that logic

Normally I wouldn't say it but thunder, the admin who gave me the note, agreed it was okay to detonate before round end and so I think it's a valid point if the admin who noted me agrees

IrishWristWatch0 wrote:"it was right before round ended" is a dumb argument and wrong. Stop applying that logic

This also applies to an optional, specifically antagonist ghost role on lavaland wherein no others had even bothered to spawn for half an hour.

Sure maybe if there were others operatives there that didn't agree but eh.

Armhulen wrote:It's not griff, at most it denies four minutes of chemistry and or virology. Reminder that nobody spawned for the 30 minutes I played, even after the catastrophic round ending events no ghosts joined.

Denying someone the ability to play the role in the future simply because you personally got bored of it doesn't sound anything less than griff though.

I honestly don't think there's any external circumstances aside from someone actually raiding your base [the purpose of them] that I would consider non-grief.

Saegrimr wrote:

IrishWristWatch0 wrote:"it was right before round ended" is a dumb argument and wrong. Stop applying that logic

This also applies to an optional, specifically antagonist ghost role on lavaland wherein no others had even bothered to spawn for half an hour.

Sure maybe if there were others operatives there that didn't agree but eh.

Personally, I hold the belief that if you don't want to play a ghost role with slots still available you should ahelp for someone to take the role or just suicide normally instead of stopping anyone else from playing the role.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Personally, I hold the belief that if you don't want to play a ghost role with slots still available you should ahelp for someone to take the role or just suicide normally instead of stopping anyone else from playing the role.

Reasonable, yeah, but still not quite on the level of Toxins just pulling the cord once the shuttle leaves.

Saegrimr wrote:

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:Personally, I hold the belief that if you don't want to play a ghost role with slots still available you should ahelp for someone to take the role or just suicide normally instead of stopping anyone else from playing the role.

Reasonable, yeah, but still not quite on the level of Toxins just pulling the cord once the shuttle leaves.

People who pull the cord don't usually leave with just a note, so yes I agree.

But why does he need to be on THIN ICE and have his griff index score increased for impacting literally nobody as a throwaway role on another z level.

Kor wrote:But why does he need to be on THIN ICE and have his griff index score increased for impacting literally nobody as a throwaway role on another z level.

What part of the note came off as "THIN ICE" exactly?

His "griff index score" is being increased because he ruined the ability for anyone else who wants to join. There's a small amount of rules I give to ghost roles, but ruining other people's ability to play the role as that role is one of them. JUST SUICIDE NORMALLY. I am not a fan of suiciding in any form [supermatter, egrille, etc.] that negatively impacts other players [in this case, not being able to join the syndicate base]. "but it was near the round end!" to which that's never been an excusable reasoning, and shouldn't change simply because some guy had the "nerve" to attempt to appeal his note on the forums [if this argument is even applicable, the situation wasn't made fully clear yet in why the timing is such a big deal for OP].

Also it seems a bit silly to measure the offense on "how many people it impacted in the round" when you could just break the flavor text as long as you don't meet anyone. On that note though, it did affect the two other people that may have wanted to play in the syndicate base but now couldn't.

Just because the role you join is throwaway doesn't mean you get to throw away the role for others because you're bored.

iamgoofball wrote:

Kor wrote:But why does he need to be on THIN ICE and have his griff index score increased for impacting literally nobody as a throwaway role on another z level.

because i need to get my autism OCD for enforcing rules for the sake of enforcing rules sated by waving my chode around

It has nothing to do with epower and everything to do with the whole point of ghost roles. Bombing your own base for the lulz, which consequently denies people from playing that role for the rest of the round, is a dick move. What's difficult in understanding this?

it's like blowing up the arrivals shuttle, sure nobody will die instantly, but it's gonna inconvenience people later on

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Kor wrote:But why does he need to be on THIN ICE and have his griff index score increased for impacting literally nobody as a throwaway role on another z level.

What part of the note came off as "THIN ICE" exactly?

His "griff index score" is being increased because he ruined the ability for anyone else who wants to join. There's a small amount of rules I give to ghost roles, but ruining other people's ability to play the role as that role is one of them. JUST SUICIDE NORMALLY. I am not a fan of suiciding in any form [supermatter, egrille, etc.] that negatively impacts other players [in this case, not being able to join the syndicate base]. "but it was near the round end!" to which that's never been an excusable reasoning, and shouldn't change simply because some guy had the "nerve" to attempt to appeal his note on the forums [if this argument is even applicable, the situation wasn't made fully clear yet in why the timing is such a big deal for OP].

Also it seems a bit silly to measure the offense on "how many people it impacted in the round" when you could just break the flavor text as long as you don't meet anyone. On that note though, it did affect the two other people that may have wanted to play in the syndicate base but now couldn't.

Just because the role you join is throwaway doesn't mean you get to throw away the role for others because you're bored.

iamgoofball wrote:

Kor wrote:But why does he need to be on THIN ICE and have his griff index score increased for impacting literally nobody as a throwaway role on another z level.

because i need to get my autism OCD for enforcing rules for the sake of enforcing rules sated by waving my chode around

It has nothing to do with epower and everything to do with the whole point of ghost roles. Bombing your own base for the lulz, which consequently denies people from playing that role for the rest of the round, is a dick move. What's difficult in understanding this?

I know this point is stupid, but if you're found out by Nanotrasen you have to blow the base because you were discovered. But I know, we're not here to discuss lore so on another hand, I was told it was okay to blow the base after recall was inevitable anyways, permission from admin. I don't see the difference between blowing the base at six minutes when recall is impossible outside of admin intervention or blowing the base at 4 minutes. Both of them deny other people from joining as a syndicate role but one of these got me a note and the other I got admin permission.

Also:

oranges wrote:it's like blowing up the arrivals shuttle, sure nobody will die instantly, but it's gonna inconvenience people later on

lol, dude. I can't put my finger on it but this post is hilarious, maybe because we're choosing the fate of a base that spawns in the middle of nowhere instead of the main spawn point of the main game but you tell me

Really stupid note. If ghosts are peeved that they can't play as syndies then just go to debug -> place map template and build a new one. It hurts literally nobody especially when it can be fixed in an instant. I'm not sure why this was felt to be actionable at all in the first place.

At the most this deserved maybe a subtle message expressing disappointment.

Blowing up the arrivals shuttle is no way a fair comparison to blowing up the Syndicate Base.

In case you guys forgot the Syndicate base was a place for new players to try out chemistry and RnD without ruining a station round.

So therefore because it usually attracts newer players who are wanting to try out the game or an aspect of the game I would consider it to be the same as the arrivals shuttle, blowing up any spawn point even with 4 minutes left in the round is just low energy.

oranges wrote:In case you guys forgot the Syndicate base was a place for new players to try out chemistry and RnD without ruining a station round.

So therefore because it usually attracts newer players who are wanting to try out the game or an aspect of the game I would consider it to be the same as the arrivals shuttle, blowing up any spawn point even with 4 minutes left in the round is just low energy.

blowing it up four minutes left in the round was permitted by the noting admin, to the squeezer with you.

Long and the short of this needs to be, Thunder do you feel the note was place erroneously enough to warrant it removed from their record?

Armhulen wrote: I know this point is stupid, but if you're found out by Nanotrasen you have to blow the base because you were discovered. But I know, we're not here to discuss lore so on another hand, I was told it was okay to blow the base after recall was inevitable anyways, permission from admin.

No no, you're very correct on that.

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:I honestly don't think there's any external circumstances aside from someone actually raiding your base [the purpose of them] that I would consider non-grief.

Also Ah then I can understand your position. If an admin told you that you could do it FNR then it's a bit unfair to give you a note for it because you didn't do it "right"

oranges wrote:In case you guys forgot the Syndicate base was a place for new players to try out chemistry and RnD without ruining a station round.

There's no RnD at the Syndicate base.

Sligneris wrote:

oranges wrote:In case you guys forgot the Syndicate base was a place for new players to try out chemistry and RnD without ruining a station round.

There's no RnD at the Syndicate base.

He meant virology.

Note isn't really warranted here; even though the intention of the note wasn't meant to be malicious or trying to get them banned down the line. The note also doesn't seem as warranted when the player did eventually get permission to do the same thing at some given point. So I'm going to remove it, but what was said and asked with detonating the bombs should obviously be considered.

Generally blowing up your base for little reason is bad and I really don't agree with it. Just causing destruction due to the shuttle being called and on it's way is kind of dumb and not a good precedent to set when we don't allow such activities on station. Yet it being Lavaland has to be considered as well, as causing similar mayhem even if the impact is low on station has a potential ruining people's rounds(greentext mostly causing the biggest fuss). So more leeway is allowed on Lavaland being away from what occurs on station being isolated from things.

We don't want to start seeing a trend towards folks just being destructive to things other players may want to enjoy(or encourage a really horrible precedent that it's fine because admins can go to debug and place map template to fix it). So common sense needs to be applied before making the decision to now destroy something others may be enjoying or might want to enjoy. E.G. If there's other players there then you really shouldn't detonate the base unless they all agree to detonate it.

So I suppose what I'm asking folks to be more considerate to what others may want to do. Ask for permission in cases the OP's where you're the only one. An admin can look at the situation and go yea or nay for your action as they have a pretty good idea of the state of the round. They can also do things like ask deadchat if anyone cares to play this role beforehand as well. So it's just a more simple way to handle situations like this as the blame will be on admins and the player is in the clear for anything occurring.

Well, that's that. Thanks for lifting the note.