[various] - akesson - note appeal

[J_Madison]

due to old/untrue/outdated notes affecting bans, I'd like to quash as many as possible.

Byond account and character name: akesson/static name
noting admin: various

note reasons and when:
2016-02-09 22:19:18 | Sybil | technoalchemist
Killed and hid the body of someone who disarmed him a couple times during a declared nuke ops war.
Why you think you should be unnoted:
Incited a manhunt, attacked the defacto head of security (only security member) during a war round, stole from sec during war round, also it was scaredofshadows being an intolerable player that week whose gimmick was to push people fnr.

note reasons and when:
2017-03-19 20:27:31 | Bagil | dannno EDIT: Note backed up by PKPenguin321, ban adjourned by ausops.
Banned from Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer - Permabrigged an assistant (Bryce Pax) for disarming him twice. When told to release them, ran in with a flashbang, spooking the assistant who tried to grab them. They proceeded to indefinitely N2O the assistant, despite being explicitly told not to do it. Take a break from security.
Why you think you should be unnoted:
This is blatently not true because I ran in with a flashbang because of a rule breaking AI that let him out of isolated permabrig, I indefinitely N2O or killed them because they used admin intervention to escalate and attempt to murder a security member in permabrig.

note reasons and when:
2016-08-21 21:22:08 | Sybil | atlantaned
Warned for keeping a person stuck in the brig with N2O internals.
Why you think you should be unnoted:
They were ling or mass murderer that round. I'm fairly sure of it.


edit;
just add a big "QUASHED - adminame" or something if you don't wish to delete the notes. it'll help me sleep tonight.

[PKPenguin321]

>stole from sec during a war round
You mean arming up to fight the incoming war ops?

Second one sticks, "they used admin intervention" isn't an excuse to do something an admin specifically tells you not to do

Third one I'll go log dive but if you got noted for it then no, I'm pretty sure they weren't either of those things

[J_Madison]

>stole from sec during a war round
You mean arming up to fight the incoming war ops?

Second one sticks, "they used admin intervention" isn't an excuse to do something an admin specifically tells you not to do

Third one I'll go log dive but if you got noted for it then no, I'm pretty sure they weren't either of those things

no as in he legit started mass disarming me and trying to steal items off me.

I meant admin intervention in the fact I would have never been in the position had I not been given a direct order from an admin to do so.
And not only that, they used the fact that I came to them (due to an admin) to try and kill me.
I had obeyed every order until they made use of admin intervention to kill me.

third note I've honestly forgotten, but I've personally never n2o'd anyone that wasn't a ling or generally unbearable to security.

[Atlanta-Ned]

third note I've honestly forgotten, but I've personally never n2o'd anyone that wasn't a ling or generally unbearable to security.

I feel like you were doing this to someone who was known for causing problems

I found this in the logs. The context was that someone had found their way into the captain's office, which was open to space thanks to a sing. They stole the cap's gear in order to survive. You assumed that they'd killed the captain.

Frankly I don't feel like this is worth getting into, so I'll just remove the note I guess.

[TechnoAlchemist]

jmad is lying about the first note

[J_Madison]

jmad is lying about the first note

absolutely not that was scaredofshadows and for the whole week he was doing nothing except disarm and stealing from people.

third note I've honestly forgotten, but I've personally never n2o'd anyone that wasn't a ling or generally unbearable to security.

I feel like you were doing this to someone who was known for causing problems

I found this in the logs. The context was that someone had found their way into the captain's office, which was open to space thanks to a sing. They stole the cap's gear in order to survive. You assumed that they'd killed the captain.

Frankly I don't feel like this is worth getting into, so I'll just remove the note I guess.

appreciate it, thanks for your reconsideration.

[danno]

not removing mine

[J_Madison]

not removing mine

woah squats wanna explain why?

i mean your ban was universally panned and criticised by various people for starters.

[PKPenguin321]

Second note will stick, third's been removed, the last one could use some log diving evidence from you, JMad. For your convenience: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... Sunday.txt

[danno]

My ban was """""universally panned and criticized""""" by some pretty infamous security mains
Every administrator I consulted that I can recall agreed with what I did, including the headmins.
I think there is every reason to leave the note as evidence for any hypothetical future situations you might get yourself into.

and don't call me squats what does that even MEAN

[cedarbridge]

My ban was """""universally panned and criticized""""" by some pretty infamous security mains
Every administrator I consulted that I can recall agreed with what I did, including the headmins.
I think there is every reason to leave the note as evidence for any hypothetical future situations you might get yourself into.

Seriously, if I hear about this ban one more I might scream.

[danno]

honestly still laughing at "universally panned and criticized"

[DemonFiren]

note appealing does lead to a slippery slope after all

[J_Madison]

honestly still laughing at "universally panned and criticized"

You wanna explain the following?;
I killed him/N2O him because he attempted to murder me.
The reason he had that opportunity to murder me is because of you (admin intervention).
The reason he was put into permabrig was because of his metafriends trying to break him out.
The reason he was brigged is because he assaulted and challenged a latejoin warden who has literally just got on.

Here's the facts to correct the record;
I did not instigate this. I did not start this.
I had just joined the round when Pax assaulted me FNR. This is attacking late arrivals.
Gulag and normal brig were smashed open and out of commission/exposed to space/disabled.
If Pax is tired of the way he is treated (zero tolerance and metafriends breaking him out) because of his name, he needs to change it.
Not at any time did I disobey Danno's order to release Pax until they attempted to kill me.
Pax used a ahelps to bait another player to their death.

I think the very fact that I "permabrigged an assistant for 2 disarms" isn't true because it's very clearly stated I put them in SEGREGATED permabrig for ease of moving him out once his sentence was over - his stay was temporary. It was a law breaking AI that permitted him to leave.
I ran in with a flashbang once I realised that Pax had water/soap and was intending to kill whomever was trying to extract him.

You demanded that I release him, which I was doing until he had an aggressive grab and tried to choke me to death.
And you requested I don't kill him for attempted murder, which I didn't when I was very clearly right to do so.


I think you're being an unreasonable admin because you haven't punished the metafriends that keep trying to release him or the law breaking AI that let him out of segregation.
In addition to this, why did you not punish Pax for abusing ahelps to kill people?

[Lumbermancer]

>stole from sec during a war round
You mean arming up to fight the incoming war ops?

I'm sorry but trying to abridge IC interactions because of specific game mode is just another flavor of metagaming.

The only thing jmad did wrong was hiding the body. I'd dump it outside the medbay myself.

[Screemonster]

>stole from sec during a war round
You mean arming up to fight the incoming war ops?

I'm sorry but trying to abridge IC interactions because of specific game mode is just another flavor of metagaming.

The only thing jmad did wrong was hiding the body. I'd dump it outside the medbay myself.

to be fair if you want to arm up during declared war ops just go to sec and ask

if you want to convince the guys with the guns that you're someone they want having their back in a firefight then using your words goes a long way, wordlessly bumrushing the armory and shoving people over isn't a good indication of a team player

[Qbopper]

snip

if you're going to yet again complain about this godforsaken ban take it elsewhere

this is not that ban appeal

[J_Madison]

snip

if you're going to yet again complain about this godforsaken ban take it elsewhere

this is not that ban appeal

I'm posting that as a response to him claiming that his note/ban was perfectly valid.
I've posted why - word for word, event by event, action and cause vice versa - his ban wasn't valid in the first place.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Actually, no. I'm not removing your note. Justify your actions.

[J_Madison]

Actually, no. I'm not removing your note. Justify your actions.

Alright.
That round permabrig was dark (no power).
Cells were unpowered.
Permabrig was exposed to space.
Brig had areas partially flooded with N2O.

I wanted to bring them onto the shuttle, so I kept them in N2O in a cell instead of the education room.


The guy was causing problems with sec. I do not recall what he did exactly, but I think we've agreed he was a problem for sec.

No other option to effectively contain him them.

edit;
sec was overwhelmed. I think it was me, one officer, and a non sec at the time in the brig when I caught this fellow.

[Nilons]

I have no idea how an admin told a person to do something, like go here release whoever, and then when the person went to go release whoever, they were attacked by them. Then noted and banned for fighting back. Like what was he supposed to do here? Let pax kill him because an admin told him to walk into a situation he was gonna get banned for defending himself in? Why was pax allowed to continue to escalate after admin intervention was deemed necessary? Jmads options were pretty much "go let pax kill you/bucklecuff you in perma or eat a sec ban and get a note" If I were JMad i'd autistically post about this for months too it's horseshit.

[IcePacks]

note reasons and when:
2017-03-19 20:27:31 | Bagil | dannno
Banned from Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer - Permabrigged an assistant (Bryce Pax) for disarming him twice. When told to release them, ran in with a flashbang, spooking the assistant who tried to grab them. They proceeded to indefinitely N2O the assistant, despite being explicitly told not to do it. Take a break from security.
Why you think you should be unnoted:
This is blatently not true because I ran in with a flashbang because of a rule breaking AI that let him out of isolated permabrig, I indefinitely N2O or killed them because they used admin intervention to escalate and attempt to murder a security member in permabrig.

this again

This note should be repealed or at least changed to reflect the nature of the round. There's a lot that could've been done differently on both sides, but tiders had disassembled the gulag console and much of the brig and that had already limited his options.

This is easy for me to say as the person effected, but it's also possible to release prisoners without using force or tell people not to do stuff. Security was way out of their depth that round and it really makes you think.

[J_Madison]

note reasons and when:
2017-03-19 20:27:31 | Bagil | dannno
Banned from Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer - Permabrigged an assistant (Bryce Pax) for disarming him twice. When told to release them, ran in with a flashbang, spooking the assistant who tried to grab them. They proceeded to indefinitely N2O the assistant, despite being explicitly told not to do it. Take a break from security.
Why you think you should be unnoted:
This is blatently not true because I ran in with a flashbang because of a rule breaking AI that let him out of isolated permabrig, I indefinitely N2O or killed them because they used admin intervention to escalate and attempt to murder a security member in permabrig.

This is easy for me to say as the person effected, but it's also possible to release prisoners without using force or tell people not to do stuff. Security was way out of their depth that round and it really makes you think.

I'm gonna be flat with you.

tbh if bryce fucking pax bwoinked me to be nicer to greytiders id prolly tell you to fuck off too

[danno]

I'm not going to argue the note with you again, because I don't feel like sitting here talking in circles again.
The note is staying.

[danno]

unless a headmin disagrees obv.

[J_Madison]

I'm not going to argue the note with you again, because I don't feel like sitting here talking in circles again.
The note is staying.

You're not arguing because you don't have a point. The note is null and made based on false assumptions and shouldn't have been given in the first place.
If you want to drop the note because you can't argue against the evidence, I'll be happy to overlook this and forgive and forget.

Otherwise if you won't take responsibility for your own actions, it shows what little integrity and professionalism you have when applying false bans and notes that you can't back up, and refusing to swallow your pride and admitting you're wrong.

I'd like to invoke a senior admin on this if Danno refuses to take responsibility for a false note that'll likely affect the outcome of my next bwoink.

[danno]

I'm not arguing because we've already argued about it plenty already and there isn't anything new to talk about
Pkpenguin has already weighed in regardless

[Wyzack]

For the last fucking time, the headmins exist in part as a check on admin behavior. If you have contested something an admin has done and it has gone to headmins for final judgement, that is it full stop. You can't go back to the original admin and complain and keep saying it is his problem and he should change it, he has deferred to the only higher authority we have and they have made their call. Therefore it is now entirely their problem.

[danno]

You gotta stop deluding yourself into thinking I've gone rogue or something here with that ban, J_Mad.
It was fully backed and it's history now.
Move on.

[BeeSting12]

tbh pax shouldve been banned the minute he started disarming an officer right off the arrivals shuttle.

[J_Madison]

I'm not arguing because we've already argued about it plenty already and there isn't anything new to talk about
Pkpenguin has already weighed in regardless

You gotta stop deluding yourself into thinking I've gone rogue or something here with that ban, J_Mad.
It was fully backed and it's history now.
Move on.

I won't back down on something that is considered completely invalid by several members of the community.

PKP may disagree, but I think the sheer hubris and attitude you've shown requires either a full on rule change or another ruling.

There's no way I'm accepting it's my fault that you baited me into a ban and I'm responsible until rules change to reflect that.

I'm willing to invoke host/other headmins/admin democracy ruling over this.

If PKP wants to rule that it's final, it is up to him, but it will also reflect that he's backing up an admin that's clearly made a invalid ban.

[danno]

Bans being considered "completely invalid" by like 3-4 or whatever players doesn't matter for what I would assume are very obvious reasons. I really hope someone doesn't have to actually explain to you why that is.

I don't even know what you mean by hubris, that's just goofy

Accusing me of "baiting" you into the ban is simply absurd

And I'm gonna say this one last time before I officially stop responding; Not only Pkp, but every single admin I talked to, agreed with the ban.

I think your attitude here is a testament to why the note has to stay. Peace out

[J_Madison]

Bans being considered "completely invalid" by like 3-4 or whatever players doesn't matter for what I would assume are very obvious reasons. I really hope someone doesn't have to actually explain to you why that is.

I don't even know what you mean by hubris, that's just goofy

Accusing me of "baiting" you into the ban is simply absurd

And I'm gonna say this one last time before I officially stop responding; Not only Pkp, but every single admin I talked to, agreed with the ban.

I think your attitude here is a testament to why the note has to stay. Peace out

1. you can be a hero in your own mind, but everyone will know you as the admin that assists greytides and they should ask for another admin if you bwoink them.
2. you don't realise how wrong the ban was. just the gall of applying a false ban and plugging your ears and screaming you're right doesn't make it wrong.
3. you told me to release him, then banned me when he tried to kill me. what wrong did I do?
4. then why did ausops undo the ban early? clearly the not all the admins agreed with you.

Answer one question if you can;
What did I do wrong that deserved a ban?

[Wyzack]

Jmad acknowledge my post or fucking let it go

[IcePacks]

note reasons and when:
2017-03-19 20:27:31 | Bagil | dannno
Banned from Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer - Permabrigged an assistant (Bryce Pax) for disarming him twice. When told to release them, ran in with a flashbang, spooking the assistant who tried to grab them. They proceeded to indefinitely N2O the assistant, despite being explicitly told not to do it. Take a break from security.
Why you think you should be unnoted:
This is blatently not true because I ran in with a flashbang because of a rule breaking AI that let him out of isolated permabrig, I indefinitely N2O or killed them because they used admin intervention to escalate and attempt to murder a security member in permabrig.

This is easy for me to say as the person effected, but it's also possible to release prisoners without using force or tell people not to do stuff. Security was way out of their depth that round and it really makes you think.

I'm gonna be flat with you.

tbh if bryce fucking pax bwoinked me to be nicer to greytiders id prolly tell you to fuck off too

Well, if you want to keep thinking you're the victim, go for it. There's plenty more to it than just "muh heavy tiding" and your failure to realize this makes it very justifiable to repeatedly reject your appeals.

[Lazengann]

The ban was shit because Pax became valid when he tried to murder J_Mad after admins had stepped in. If the prosecution's assertion is that "Pax murdering JMad was valid because Pax didn't know admins stepped in," then that is completely Danno's fault for not informing Pax and thus J_Mad should not be punished for it.

[PKPenguin321]

Second note will stick, third's been removed, the last one could use some log diving evidence from you, JMad. For your convenience: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... Sunday.txt

This has spiraled way off topic, all JMad had to do was oblige with what told him to do in this post I'm quoting. I guess he doesn't care enough to have that first note lifted.