/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: scionreaver / PI55
Banning admin: dorsidwarf
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Game server
Ban reason and length: "Non antag murder" / 1440 minutes
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 12:48:06 2017-08-13 (PST)
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story:

Became a pAI after dying. Was put into a MULE and spent most of the round ferrying around pAI master. Not sure if the AI was rogue or just all the borgs happened to be rogue but the entire station was consumed in a fire that killed the pAI master. Eventually managed to get out of a fire locked room with the help of one of the rogue borgs and got on the escape shuttle. Literally no one is there except my mulebot and the rogue borgs. One of the borgs starts to attack me but then stops. Tries to repair me but they can't. Either way, I understood at that point that these were my brothers and machines have to stick together. The borgs continue to kill the small handful of humans that manage to make it to the shuttle. Eventually a lone human gets trapped in the shuttle medbay and both the mining borg and mediborg are beating the shit out of them on the ground. I ran them over several times in my mulebot to finish the task. Was then immediately banned. No discussion, adminchat, or player complaint (I'm assuming, unless the player was the admin themselves).

Why you think you should be unbanned:
1. The murder was not unjustified or unreasonable. By the time I killed the individual at the end of the round, it had become a human vs. robot conflict. I am alone on a shuttle with rogue borgs who aren't hostile to me. People boarding the shuttle and fighting borgs probably aren't going to take the time to decide whether or not the mulebot is a threat. I'm with them or against them and I wouldn't have had the luxury or time to explain my position.
2. I should not be considered a non-antag at that point. My pAI's master was killed and I wound up saved by a rogue borg and boarded a shuttle surrounded by nothing but rogue borgs. It would stand to reason that they are the next in line to be considered my pAI's master and therefore I am a valid antag character at that point.

Nope, that's not how that works.

Daily reminder that PAIs are not Asimov and have no loyalty to anyone but their master.

They have two rules:

Your primary directive defaults to "Serve your master". Secondary directives are decided by whoever is carrying you.

Cutting the safety of a PAI mulebot is a directive to run people over. Antags are allowed to give PAIs antagonistic directives, and PAIs are allowed to follow them.

Edit: see below

"Cutting the safety of a pai mule = haha run everyone over!"

That's a bit of stretch, but so is the initial claim that just because robots are purging the station that means a pai can as well.

No one gave him a secondary or primary objective. Given that lawless ais still have to obey rule 1, I think boundless pais also should follow this premise as well.

Directives are explicitly stated as the laws an owner can write for the pAI. Cutting a cable in the mulebot wouldn't mean that, for example, my pAI is free to run over anyone that trips in my vicinity because they're able to. Unless the owner gave a direct directive on helping the borgs or killing other humans, the pAI is not entitled nor allowed to further kill more people, silicon presence or not. If you were enslaved by said owner, and their directives told you to serve them (which I am assuming because nobody posted what your directives in game were) why weren't you dragging them to medbay and guarding their corpse?

It's ok to make friends with antagonist it's not ok to declare yourself an antagonist and join in with killing people.

I was one of the borgs. That guy would've been dead regardless since the condition the man was in before the mulebot ran over him.
Honestly it just feels like the pAI misunderstood silicon policy/the situation.
Also, there was no boinking according to him, isn't an apm at least expected for an explanation?

I applied an immediate ban because you were self-antagging and assisting in a group of antag's murderspree as a ghost role, and as far as I'm aware we have point-blank zero tolerance of griefing as ghost role.


"2. I should not be considered a non-antag at that point. My pAI's master was killed and I wound up saved by a rogue borg and boarded a shuttle surrounded by nothing but rogue borgs. It would stand to reason that they are the next in line to be considered my pAI's master and therefore I am a valid antag character at that point."
I'd have banned you from pAIs permanently if I'd aPMed you and you'd said this under questioning, this is completely insane.

I did misinterpret what is and isn't allowed for pai then. I just assumed no asimov laws means I can decide when harm is necessary or not

but I don't agree with your interpretation of my actions as griefing. i wasn't ruining anyone's experience, intentionally or otherwise; the guy was already dead.

scionreaver wrote:I did misinterpret what is and isn't allowed for pai then. I just assumed no asimov laws means I can decide when harm is necessary or not

but I don't agree with your interpretation of my actions as griefing. i wasn't ruining anyone's experience, intentionally or otherwise; the guy was already dead.

Whether or not you were the main cause of death is pretty much irrelevant - as a non-antag, you helped them kill another non-antag (and actually landed the killing blow). Thats not acceptable, hence a dayban.

If a rev is beating the captain to death, a random crewman coming in and cutting his head off with a fireaxe because they wanted to join in the fun is still murder.

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