[CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

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InsaneGamer574
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 am

[CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by InsaneGamer574 » #25077

[Byond account] and character name: [InsaneGamer574] Logan O'Connor

Banning admin: CreationPro

Ban reason and length: I was banned from any security roles due to the fact that I took an assistant's tools after he entered medical via the maintenance tunnels and ran when I saw him. The ban was to last for a week.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): August 21st, 2014 around 5 PM EST.

Myside of the story: I was going through the halls around Medical and spotted the maintenance tunnel remaining ajar. As I went to investigate as to why it was the case, I found an assistant with a full set of tools but no gloves on his being. As a gut feeling, I grabbed the assistant, let him go, but kept the tools with me as a safety precaution. The station's status was set to blue, and using the right as a security officer to search his belongings, I seized them as well. After doing so, the round progressed and I was messaged by CreationPro as to why I took the assistant's tools. After explaining the reasoning as to why I had taken the tools, he disagreed, and therefore later job banned me for the event of taking the tools, calling it "a pretty fucking shit thing to do." As a Security Officer on the station, I felt it was my duty to not only protect the head members of the station from possible traitorous intent, but also the assistant. With so many tools, the assistant could have completely and utterly harmed himself or others on the station through inaction, which was something I just felt I could not allow.

Why you think you should be unbanned: To start things off, the round of being job banned, I was killed by a changeling and decided to hop off of Space, knowing it wouldn't really help sticking around. I was only informed of being job banned the following round that I would play, over 3 hours later. Below is the Admin Logs from that following round, when I was promoted from an assistant position to a member of security, completely unaware of the ban at all that following round. I know the ban would last for a week, and I feel I was in the right when I took the tools. If the ban sticks, it sticks, but I hope with this argument someone somewhere can see my side of things.

**AdminHelpLogs**
(For the Record? This AdminHelp log was taken the next round I played SS13, hours after the round I had taken the tools from the assistant.)

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: Hello. Why are you currently playing as a security officer?
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: Did you at some point transfer to security?
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Yep. As the Captain's personal guard. Why?

PM to-Admins: Am I getting job banned from all of security or something?

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: That is a direct violation of an existing ban.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: I didn't know I was banned. I comitted suicide as the HoS earlier due to having to leave to take care of some business in the real world. I went out on an OOC note.

PM to-Admins: Also, I meant an IC note next to my body.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: You got banned earlier today for stealing an assistant's tools for no good reason whatsoever.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: I've seen HoS and officers alike harm baton for the same shit, and not once did I ever see their players get job banned. I got job banned for taking an assistant's tools due to the fact I ahd a gut feeling?

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: So yes, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't realise you had a ban, but please don't transfer to security as this could land you a server ban.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: Just because you "thought" it was okay doesn't make it okay.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: I didn't even know I was banned for such a small ass thing, honestly. My bad.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: That was actually a pretty fucking shit thing to do.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: I believe you need more experience at other jobs first.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: So, I have a fair and resonable question. Where could I go to state my case about this job ban?

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: This subforum: http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=7
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Thank you.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: I'll try to get your appeal resolved as fast as possible.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Just need a small amount of info. How long would this job ban have lasted? Seeing as though I was unaware of the ban to begin with, I would have no idea of the time the ban would have lasted for.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-CreationPro: A single week.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
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CreationPro
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 am
Byond Username: Solar Marine
Location: Commiefornia

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by CreationPro » #25080

After seeing your side of things, my opinion has not changed.

Keeping an assistant's tools, while he's in his rights to have them, for as much as entering maintenance, where he has access, is an abuse of power. It would be justified if, say, you caught him hacking into the bridge, but simply walking into an area he is allowed in? No.

This ban should stick unless you actually do realise where you went wrong, I'm afraid.
terranaut wrote:Scared? My stand 「CLOWN WORLD」 and it's 「FUNNY COMPANY」will defeat your weak stand in moments.
Terry the Moth, Melody Jean the roboticist and S.O.L. the cyborg.
I will not change my avatar but if I did I'd have this good KVADRATNIY boy.
Spoiler:
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IkeTG wrote:love is okay
CreationPro wrote: i love you
IkeTG wrote:love is no longer okay
Old quotes and stuff
Spoiler:
obscolene wrote:I super glued my PC case shut please don't ask why.
<Pretendo> well Ia ksed in banbus
<AurxSS13> IA KSED! IA KSED! THE BLACK TYPO WITH A THOUSAND ERRORS!

<scaredofshadows> I randomly take buttons away from people
<scaredofshadows> because I am now rogue
<hornygranny> host is rouge
<Ikarrus> blow the admins
trytryagain66 wrote: I accidently axed a guy said I was sorry to him, then he punched me so I axed his head off.
Hibbles wrote:Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
Antonkr wrote:<antonkr> tfw you will never lick hg|works delicious sexy mustache
<antonkr> ;_;
InsaneGamer574
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 am

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by InsaneGamer574 » #25081

I can completely and utterly understand that you have your own opinion, just as much as I have mine, but he entered Medical FROM Maintenance. I am all for assistants having maintenance access and even having their own tools and the like, but rushing into Medical and then running past me when I saw him was just something that didn't seem straight. I wish to humbly make a request that another admin looks into this case for me. With all due consideration, I feel that the admin that banned me shouldn't be the one to appeal my case, as well. With another admin looking into the matter, a third, unbiased party can look into the matter personally and make the call that is necessary. I thank you for your opinion and also looking into my appeal so swiftly, but I feel a third party would be best in this situation.
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CreationPro
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 am
Byond Username: Solar Marine
Location: Commiefornia

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by CreationPro » #25086

Very well, I will see if another admin desires to take a look at this case, and relay the topic to adminbus.
terranaut wrote:Scared? My stand 「CLOWN WORLD」 and it's 「FUNNY COMPANY」will defeat your weak stand in moments.
Terry the Moth, Melody Jean the roboticist and S.O.L. the cyborg.
I will not change my avatar but if I did I'd have this good KVADRATNIY boy.
Spoiler:
Image
IkeTG wrote:love is okay
CreationPro wrote: i love you
IkeTG wrote:love is no longer okay
Old quotes and stuff
Spoiler:
obscolene wrote:I super glued my PC case shut please don't ask why.
<Pretendo> well Ia ksed in banbus
<AurxSS13> IA KSED! IA KSED! THE BLACK TYPO WITH A THOUSAND ERRORS!

<scaredofshadows> I randomly take buttons away from people
<scaredofshadows> because I am now rogue
<hornygranny> host is rouge
<Ikarrus> blow the admins
trytryagain66 wrote: I accidently axed a guy said I was sorry to him, then he punched me so I axed his head off.
Hibbles wrote:Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
Antonkr wrote:<antonkr> tfw you will never lick hg|works delicious sexy mustache
<antonkr> ;_;
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Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by Pandarsenic » #25088

InsaneGamer574 wrote:Myside of the story: I was going through the halls around Medical and spotted the maintenance tunnel remaining ajar. As I went to investigate as to why it was the case, I found an assistant with a full set of tools but no gloves on his being. As a gut feeling, I grabbed the assistant, let him go, but kept the tools with me as a safety precaution.

PM to-Admins: I've seen HoS and officers alike harm baton for the same shit, and not once did I ever see their players get job banned. I got job banned for taking an assistant's tools due to the fact I ahd a gut feeling?
InsaneGamer574 wrote:he entered Medical FROM Maintenance. I am all for assistants having maintenance access and even having their own tools and the like, but rushing into Medical and then running past me when I saw him was just something that didn't seem straight
Explain?
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
InsaneGamer574
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 am

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by InsaneGamer574 » #25113

Pandarsenic wrote:
InsaneGamer574 wrote:My side of the story: I was going through the halls around Medical and spotted the maintenance tunnel remaining ajar. As I went to investigate as to why it was the case, I found an assistant with a full set of tools but no gloves on his being. As a gut feeling, I grabbed the assistant, let him go, but kept the tools with me as a safety precaution.

PM to-Admins: I've seen HoS and officers alike harm baton for the same shit, and not once did I ever see their players get job banned. I got job banned for taking an assistant's tools due to the fact I ahd a gut feeling?
InsaneGamer574 wrote:he entered Medical FROM Maintenance. I am all for assistants having maintenance access and even having their own tools and the like, but rushing into Medical and then running past me when I saw him was just something that didn't seem straight
Explain?
The first comment is what it is. The station was at stage blue and I was on the lookout for anything suspicious. An assistant coming from Maintenance into the Medical wing seemed rather suspicious, so I acted as accordingly as the guidelines would allow. The comment about the HoS and members of security harm batoning was to essentially make a point that what I did did not seem as much as a ban-able offense when compared to those that truly abuse their role as security officers and power game. Hell, at least I didn't permabrig the guy for the tools. As for the comments about "a gut feeling" and that it "didn't seem straight," those were all psychological. I thought taking the tools would, in fact, help in a variety of ways. I didn't want the assistant to come to harm, nor did I want him to harm others through inaction or even go as far as using said tools to cause harm to the station or it's head members. If I have not explained what I have needed to explain throughly, please let me know exactly what you would like explained and I would be more than glad to assist.
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elyina
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:30 pm
Byond Username: Elyina
Location: burning in hell for my sins

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by elyina » #25114

you can't steal stuff from people as security because you have a "gut feeling". you are allowed to search them if you have suspicions, even forcibly if they resist the search, but if you don't find anything it has to end there. you don't have the right to take whatever you want from the crew for no real reason.
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Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by Pandarsenic » #25121

Let me emphasize - hacking into medbay is a crime, and depending on circumstance so too can be using someone else compromising its security to run in, but unless it was a complication of viewing angles, you could not have seen the door being stuck open THEN seen an assistant who had entered from it - only an assistant you THOUGHT had entered from it, or so on.

In short, you committed theft because the person was near a door.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
InsaneGamer574
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 am

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by InsaneGamer574 » #25144

I can see where you all are coming from, and I thank you all for responding to this matter in a timely manner. So... I am going to straight up ask the main question that has been going through my mind. If I stop fighting this, will the ban still remain in effect for a week or have the circumstances changed? Ergo, is the ban going to last for longer than a week because I argued the ban in question?
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CreationPro
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 am
Byond Username: Solar Marine
Location: Commiefornia

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by CreationPro » #25146

Yes, if you do realize where you went wrong, the ban is going to either get shorter or get lifted. If you keep contesting it, it will NOT get prolonged.

But, please, take your time and answer Pandarsenic's question, because you seem to have changed your story in your second post in this thread.
terranaut wrote:Scared? My stand 「CLOWN WORLD」 and it's 「FUNNY COMPANY」will defeat your weak stand in moments.
Terry the Moth, Melody Jean the roboticist and S.O.L. the cyborg.
I will not change my avatar but if I did I'd have this good KVADRATNIY boy.
Spoiler:
Image
IkeTG wrote:love is okay
CreationPro wrote: i love you
IkeTG wrote:love is no longer okay
Old quotes and stuff
Spoiler:
obscolene wrote:I super glued my PC case shut please don't ask why.
<Pretendo> well Ia ksed in banbus
<AurxSS13> IA KSED! IA KSED! THE BLACK TYPO WITH A THOUSAND ERRORS!

<scaredofshadows> I randomly take buttons away from people
<scaredofshadows> because I am now rogue
<hornygranny> host is rouge
<Ikarrus> blow the admins
trytryagain66 wrote: I accidently axed a guy said I was sorry to him, then he punched me so I axed his head off.
Hibbles wrote:Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
Antonkr wrote:<antonkr> tfw you will never lick hg|works delicious sexy mustache
<antonkr> ;_;
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Hibbles
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:33 pm
Byond Username: HotelBravoLima
Location: United States

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by Hibbles » #25155

Just gonna bust in to mention that, for future reference,
PM to-Admins: I've seen HoS and officers alike harm baton for the same shit, and not once did I ever see their players get job banned. I got job banned for taking an assistant's tools due to the fact I ahd a gut feeling?
Is a line of 'logic' that will never work on us, and is thus something people should probably strive to avoid trying to use on us.

CP has my full support to handle this however they like. Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
RIP
InsaneGamer574
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 am

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by InsaneGamer574 » #25158

Pandersanic, I am unsure of what question CreationPro is talking about. The only thing that remotely seems like a question is the statement "Explain?" right after those direct quotes taken from my appeal. If that is the question CreationPro is speaking of, I need a little information, mainly about what needs to be explained. My story hasn't changed, and what I wrote in my appeal seems to match up with any explanations that I have given. If you want me to say I'm sorry for taking the tools and see that as an error-filled situation then fine, I made a mistake and a call on bad judgement by taking his tools from him. I was in the wrong, and I apologize.
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CreationPro
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 am
Byond Username: Solar Marine
Location: Commiefornia

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by CreationPro » #25160

You see, IG, you switched your story in regards of where the assistant was initially. First you told me he went into medbay maintenance, AKA the dark tunnel next to medbay. Then you said
InsaneGamer574 wrote:he entered Medical FROM Maintenance
, which implies he actually broke INTO medbay in the first place, where he doesn't have access.

So which was it?
terranaut wrote:Scared? My stand 「CLOWN WORLD」 and it's 「FUNNY COMPANY」will defeat your weak stand in moments.
Terry the Moth, Melody Jean the roboticist and S.O.L. the cyborg.
I will not change my avatar but if I did I'd have this good KVADRATNIY boy.
Spoiler:
Image
IkeTG wrote:love is okay
CreationPro wrote: i love you
IkeTG wrote:love is no longer okay
Old quotes and stuff
Spoiler:
obscolene wrote:I super glued my PC case shut please don't ask why.
<Pretendo> well Ia ksed in banbus
<AurxSS13> IA KSED! IA KSED! THE BLACK TYPO WITH A THOUSAND ERRORS!

<scaredofshadows> I randomly take buttons away from people
<scaredofshadows> because I am now rogue
<hornygranny> host is rouge
<Ikarrus> blow the admins
trytryagain66 wrote: I accidently axed a guy said I was sorry to him, then he punched me so I axed his head off.
Hibbles wrote:Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
Antonkr wrote:<antonkr> tfw you will never lick hg|works delicious sexy mustache
<antonkr> ;_;
InsaneGamer574
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 am

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by InsaneGamer574 » #25161

He entered Medical from Maintenance. That is what I meant the first time around. The only reason I stated it the second time around was due to the fact that I thought there was some sort of miscommunication, which it turns out there was.
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CreationPro
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 am
Byond Username: Solar Marine
Location: Commiefornia

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by CreationPro » #25163

Preceding ahelp wrote:[16:33:53]ADMIN: HELP: UndisputedOfTheEast: the sec officer stun and cuffed me and then stole my toolbelt with no explainantion. Logan O'Conner - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[16:36:10]ADMIN: HELP: UndisputedOfTheEast: Logan O'Connor says, "It was stealing? I'm sorry, I feel that the tools you had are a threat to the station." CAN I PLEASE GET AN ADMIN RESPONSE? - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[16:36:45]ADMIN: PM: SubtleGraces->UndisputedOfTheEast: What were you arrested for?
[16:37:04]ADMIN: PM: UndisputedOfTheEast->SubtleGraces: No reason. He stunned me, cuffed me, took my toolbelt off, then uncuffed me.
[16:37:16]ADMIN: PM: UndisputedOfTheEast->CreationPro: I asked him, he said "its a threat to the tation so i took it"
[16:37:47]ADMIN: PM: CreationPro->UndisputedOfTheEast: I'm investigating.
[16:42:17]ADMIN: HELP: UndisputedOfTheEast: thanks - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[16:37:11]ADMIN: PM: CreationPro->InsaneGamer574: Hello. Why did you steal an assistant's tools?
[16:38:43]ADMIN: PM: InsaneGamer574->CreationPro: I took the tools because I saw him sneaking in maintence.
[16:38:52]ADMIN: PM: CreationPro->InsaneGamer574: ...What.
[16:40:28]ADMIN: PM: InsaneGamer574->CreationPro: I took the tools due to the fact I felt as though he was up to something terrible. I'll give them back as soon as I don't have hundreds of fucking members of the station coming after me!
[16:40:58]ADMIN: PM: CreationPro->InsaneGamer574: That's a terrible reason and you should feel bad.
[16:42:24]ADMIN: PM: InsaneGamer574->CreationPro: So because of a gut feeling, which is a legitimate actual thing, during a code blue situation, and I feel as though the person is using tools to commit harm, or at least is going to hurt himself with said tools, I can't take them? Kay.
[16:42:39]ADMIN: PM: CreationPro->InsaneGamer574: Fucking exactly.
That is the actual dialogue preceding the ban. All you said was that he was sneaking in maintenance in the first place.

So, to clarify, that was not the case? The two stories are conflicting a lot.
terranaut wrote:Scared? My stand 「CLOWN WORLD」 and it's 「FUNNY COMPANY」will defeat your weak stand in moments.
Terry the Moth, Melody Jean the roboticist and S.O.L. the cyborg.
I will not change my avatar but if I did I'd have this good KVADRATNIY boy.
Spoiler:
Image
IkeTG wrote:love is okay
CreationPro wrote: i love you
IkeTG wrote:love is no longer okay
Old quotes and stuff
Spoiler:
obscolene wrote:I super glued my PC case shut please don't ask why.
<Pretendo> well Ia ksed in banbus
<AurxSS13> IA KSED! IA KSED! THE BLACK TYPO WITH A THOUSAND ERRORS!

<scaredofshadows> I randomly take buttons away from people
<scaredofshadows> because I am now rogue
<hornygranny> host is rouge
<Ikarrus> blow the admins
trytryagain66 wrote: I accidently axed a guy said I was sorry to him, then he punched me so I axed his head off.
Hibbles wrote:Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
Antonkr wrote:<antonkr> tfw you will never lick hg|works delicious sexy mustache
<antonkr> ;_;
InsaneGamer574
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 am

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by InsaneGamer574 » #25165

Well, during the time I was stating that I had people coming after a fellow officer that was bloodied and then breaking into my office at the Medical Wing. As you can probably gather it was a bit of a stressful situation due to the language. When I stated that he was "sneaking in maintenance." I saw him at the entrance of the maintenance tunnel, and then he dashed out of the maintenance tunnel, taking off past me, trying to get through the main doors to Medical before I could reach him. He failed to make it through the doors when he was evading me, so I stunned him, took the tools, and let him out of Medical. I apologize for not having that section of the adminhelps, mainly due to the fact that:

1. I had left shortly after I died during that round, rather irritated with the fact that I was husked by a changeling and knew there was nothing else I could do, and

2. I did not think that I would be job banned as a Security Officer for what I see now as a bad call.

I sincerely apologize for the entire situation and I see the error of my ways. I won't take an assistant's tools, let alone any other item the crew may have in their possession UNLESS I see them act with nefarious intent with said items. I know now that what I did was wrong, and I'm sorry.
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CreationPro
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 am
Byond Username: Solar Marine
Location: Commiefornia

Re: [CreationPro]InsaneGamer574 - Security Job Ban

Post by CreationPro » #25166

I am glad we sorted that out. I do understand that security rounds can be stressful. I am also thankful to you for being reasonable and patient about it.

I lifted the ban and I hope incidents like that don't happen again.
terranaut wrote:Scared? My stand 「CLOWN WORLD」 and it's 「FUNNY COMPANY」will defeat your weak stand in moments.
Terry the Moth, Melody Jean the roboticist and S.O.L. the cyborg.
I will not change my avatar but if I did I'd have this good KVADRATNIY boy.
Spoiler:
Image
IkeTG wrote:love is okay
CreationPro wrote: i love you
IkeTG wrote:love is no longer okay
Old quotes and stuff
Spoiler:
obscolene wrote:I super glued my PC case shut please don't ask why.
<Pretendo> well Ia ksed in banbus
<AurxSS13> IA KSED! IA KSED! THE BLACK TYPO WITH A THOUSAND ERRORS!

<scaredofshadows> I randomly take buttons away from people
<scaredofshadows> because I am now rogue
<hornygranny> host is rouge
<Ikarrus> blow the admins
trytryagain66 wrote: I accidently axed a guy said I was sorry to him, then he punched me so I axed his head off.
Hibbles wrote:Man, I love CP. I wish we had more CP on the server.
Antonkr wrote:<antonkr> tfw you will never lick hg|works delicious sexy mustache
<antonkr> ;_;
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