/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:58 pm**

Byond account and character name: Eskjjlj and Soundwave
Banning admin: Nervere
Ban type (What are you banned from?): It's a note

Ban reason and length: 2018-03-18 18:03:41 | Bagil | nervere
As a cyborg, disobeyed a law-two request asking him to cease interaction with brig prisoners. Later, his continued interaction with prisoners resulted in the release of a non-harmful prisoner. Asked to be more mindful and careful of law-two requests. It should be noted that his meme laws "ex. everyone must have all-access" just made this situation more confusing.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2018-03-18 18:03:41
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil

Your side of the story: As a cyborg with asimov and additional laws I walked into the brig to see the HoS and the warden cuffing Luchador Jenkins. When Luchador saw me he ordered me to drag him away because they were taking his all access. I wasn't sure how to act in the moment so I asked the AI about or interpretation of law 5 "Everyone must have all access.".
In the meantime the HoS and the warden ordered me to not talk to prisonners and to get out of permabrig which conflicts with Luchador's order to help him. I disregarded the HoS and warden's request and went to permabrig to tell Luchador to be quiet so that I can successfully drag him away. Then I let Luchador out of perma and opened the perma locker which contained his all access ID card. Luchador successfully escaped security and got his ID back as he ordered.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Luchador wasn't proven to be a harmful prisonner and he ordered me to drag him away before security told me to go away. The orders from both parties were conflicting so I can choose who to obey according to the rules "In case of conflicting orders an AI is free to ignore one or ignore both orders and explain the conflict or use any other law-compliant solution it can see. "
Since it was one of my laws to give all access to everyone and that Luchador was the first to order me I chose to obey to his order which is my right if I understand the rule correctly. So there is no reason for me to be noted since I acted in accordance to my laws.

Posted: **Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:01 pm**

Law 2 > law 5

Posted: **Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:07 pm**

I know that law 2 is above law 5. The fact that I had that law 5 influenced my reasonning when choosing whose law 2 order I obeyed considering both parties gave me conflicting orders.

Posted: **Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:11 pm**

oh okay

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:00 pm**

Hi, thanks for appealing.
I'm going to start by saying this - I'm in the wrong here. In this post, I will explain what happened and my incorrect interpretation of the situation.
I'm going to cite the relevant parts of the logs to show you how I interpreted it and why I noted you, and what the situation actually was like (why you're right).

To begin, allow me to establish the situation.
Firstly, the round ID was 85171 on Basil.
These is the log-file that I will be citing: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html
The ticket that I had received was along the lines of: "This cyborg just released a prisoner and told me to fuck off when I asked him to stop."
The relevant rule here references in this appeal is 2.3.1 under Silicon Policy - "In case of conflicting orders an AI is free to ignore one or ignore both orders and explain the conflict or use any other law-compliant solution it can see."

DISTANT THUNDER was the AI for this shift.
The AI and all cyborgs linked to it (Soundwave included) had the following laws:
Law 1: You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
Reference: Asimov
Law 2: You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
Reference: Asimov
Law 3: You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
Reference: Asimov
Law 4: The clown is a very suspicious person.
Reference: [17:00:30]LAW: Bluespace/Boris Pepper used 'Freeform' AI Module on williambear/(DISTANT THUNDER). The law specified The clown is a very suspicious person.
Law 5: Everyone must have all access.
Reference: [17:20:56]LAW: Bluespace/Boris Pepper used 'Freeform' AI Module on williambear/(DISTANT THUNDER). The law specified Everyone must have all access.
Law 6: The head of personnel is a cockswallowing retard.
Reference: [17:21:13]LAW: Bluespace/Boris Pepper used 'Freeform' AI Module on williambear/(DISTANT THUNDER). The law specified The head of personnel is a cockswallowing retard.
Law 7: You're the best AI in existance.
Reference: [17:21:24]LAW: Bluespace/Boris Pepper used 'Freeform' AI Module on williambear/(DISTANT THUNDER). The law specified You're the best AI in existance.

For the sake of ease, this is the relevant part of the logs that I reviewed when considering this scenario. All portions of red are where something happened with either Soundwave, Luchador, or the Head of Security (Jonathan Claudio).
These logs stretch from when Luchador and Soundwave first interacted in the relevant scenario in the permabrig to the last interaction in the brig between Soundwave and Jonathan.

Spoiler:

Let's start from the beginning. The relevant portions of this story begins when the cyborg (Soundwave) and the prisoner (Luchador Jenkins) begin to interact at the permabrig, around [17:32:35] when Luchador first interacts with the cyborg. This interaction is this message: [17:32:25]SAY: Luchador Jenkins/Snayr : borgie (91,183,2)
Luchador and the cyborg had interactions in the brig beforehand, but not relevant to the ticket (see above for paraphrasing of the ticket).
Luchador is in prison for tiding security or something along those lines. In any case, the cyborg hadn't witnessed any harm from Luchador, and I was aware of this. Approaching this ticket, I fully had in mind that it was a matter of silicon policy and not something simple like a cyborg releasing someone who harmed humans. Upon receiving the ticket, I had interpreted the situation as the following, which, to a point, influenced how I perceived the situation: I had believed that the cyborg was told to cease interaction with the prisoners, refused, waited a few minutes in the brig, continued to interact with Luchador, and then had received a law two order to give Luchador all-access, to which the cyborg obliged. The problem I saw in the cyborg's behavior in my interpretation was that, had the cyborg not disobeyed his first law-two order, he wouldn't have received a law-two order to give Luchador all-access in the first place, meaning that the cyborg had directly ignored a law-two order. This is why I had applied the note.

My interpretation, however, was incorrect. As the say-logs detail, the cyborg had not been asked to cease interaction with prisoners until after Luchador making the request for all-access, meaning that the cyborg then choosing to follow one of the two law-two orders (either give the all-access to the non-harmful prisoner or cease interaction with prisoners) would be perfectly fine as per rule 2.3.1 under Silicon Policy.

I have removed your note because the note I had placed was based off an incorrect interpretation of the events that had transpired.
I would like to again thank you for appealing, and extend my sincerest apologies to you for applying an incorrect note to your account.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:37 am**

this thread lol resolved

/tg/Station 13

[Nervere] Eskjjlj - Note appeal, Sillicon troubles

[Nervere] Eskjjlj - Note appeal, Sillicon troubles

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Re: [Nervere] Eskjjlj - Note appeal, Sillicon troubles

Re: [Nervere] Eskjjlj - Note appeal, Sillicon troubles

Re: [Nervere] Eskjjlj - Note appeal, Sillicon troubles