[Blessedheretic] Ohnopigeons - Day Ban

[ohnopigeons]

Byond account and character name: Ohnopigeons - Roman Wilkinson
Banning admin: Blessedheretic
Ban reason and length: 1 day ban

Reason: Killed a clown for trying to defend itself against a assistant with stolen security gear. Harmbatoned clown to death instead of even detaining when all the clown had was a god damn glass shard. Rejoin us in a day, or appeal.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2014-10-16 19:17:55 (server time)
Your side of the story:

Station Status at the time when incident occurred:

• Permabrigged Captain earlier in the shift(presumably traitor of some sort)
• Dead/Taken-Care-Of Traitor HoP
• MIA HoS (reappeared later)
• Dead RD
• Medbay bombed multiple times (x3)
• Science explosion
• Power outages
• Cloners inoperable due to destroyed machinery/power
• Corpses piling up, which is probably related to crewmembers being killed around the station
• Rogue AI actively killing security with bolting/shocking/syphoning/door crushing
• Entirety of brig essentially shocked/bolted due to aforementioned point
• Dead/Dying/Trapped security officers due to the aforementioned two points
• SHUTTLE HADN'T BEEN CALLED YET (See points 1-4,10)

To understand how the "clown" came to be killed, I will start the story off with someone else I harmedbatoned to death, right before the "clown" was killed.

In responding to a cry for help in the security break room too very late in typical security fashion, I entered the security break room through maintenance on my second try with a pair of insulated gloves. The first time I tried, the normal entrance was bolted/shocked, due to the AI being rogue and trying to kill security, and I got shocked when I tried the maint door. When I entered, I saw the officer who cried for help dead and bloodied, strapped into the break room chair, with some Unknown in the same room. The "assistant" and Warden were trapped in the sec locker room. I approach the Unknown with a taser gun in hand but he charges at me and disarms the taser gun. The "assistant" starts shooting at the Unknown with lasers after this. It is at this point I infer that the Unknown was some sort of dirty traitor scum and was probably responsible for the dead security officer. The warden fired off a shot with his e-gun as well. Unknown goes down due to my taser bolt after the scuffle over the taser gun, and I take out my baton and beat him to death. Why? Because the station is fucked. The heads are basically gone, the AI is rogue and on a killing spree, rendering most crew capabilities useless, especially for security where brig doors and bolted/shocked and the permabrig is airless. Not only is detainment unfeasible at this point, but also very counterproductive in protecting the station/crew with so many things going wrong. Especially for someone who probably killed the dead security officer, assaulted me, and was fired on by other security members. And so, the Unknown died by my hands.

After I had slain the Unknown, I turn my attention on the two trapped security members. One is the warden, the other is the "assistant" who is wearing a reddish jumpsuit, heavily armed, and some sec gear. I didn't really think anything of it given the circumstances so I assumed he was an officer. Even if he wasn't, he could get along with the warden despite being trapped in an enclosed room, and the warden didn't seem to mind the "assistant" going off with the sec gear so it could be assumed it was condoned; deputization seemed to be a possibility, whether formally or informally done so. Didn't matter because with dead and dying officers in a FUBAR situation, help in the form of new recruits and deputies is typically appreciated. So both in my mind and ICly, he was security.

Anyways, he and the Warden weren't budging from the locker room even though the door wasn't bolted, which indicated that the door was probably shocked. So with the power of insulated gloves, I triumphantly opened the locker room door, sparks flying uselessly. The "assistant" then tried to leave when suddenly the doors close on him and he screams in agony. The door crushes on him a few more times before I react to the situation and pull him out. I come to the realization that the AI is actively watching over the brig. Because of this, I start smashing windows into the locker room while the "assistant" tries to exchange a few words. The "assistant" then drills through the wall next to the doors leading to the brig and tries to get me to follow him. I don't respond because I'm busy breaking into the locker room as my baton and taser were in need of recharging. So the "assistant" leaves and I mind my own business, reorganizing my inventory, recharging weapons, eating donuts, thinking about how fucked everything is, that kind of thing.

Then, all of a sudden, my business is rudely interrupted when the "assistant" comes running back into the break room, with someone wearing pretty much only a green jumpsuit and wielding a shard chasing the "assistant", all the while attacking him. This is the "clown", despite the fact that he had no clown mask, no clown shoes, or any other identifier indicating that he would be a clown save for maybe inspecting his ID card. Which is hardly the first thing that comes to mind when a rather normally and assistant-like dressed crewmember comes chasing and attacking another security force member. Not to mention that attacking security with glass shards, in the midst of a crisis, hardly seems funny to me and rather antagonistic/traitorous. The "assistant" tries shooting the "clown" while trying to get away from him, while the "clown" continues to chase the "assistant", undeterred by the lasers. Given what I witnessed, I concluded the the "clown" was the aggressor, because I couldn't imagine any other scenario where someone would chase a security officer wielding a laser gun.

So I start shooting at the "clown" with my taser, but I only successfully make a bolt connect on the fifth shot due to both of them running around the room. He goes down, and the moment of truth approaches. But before that, let's review the facts:

• The security force is dead/dying/unaccounted for
• Rogue AI wrecking havoc on the station and on security
• Brig detainment rendered inoperable/dysfunctional due to rogue AI
• AI keeping a watchful eye over the brig and security, actively working against us
• Station condition continues to deteriorate, crewmembers uncoordinated and dying out

With these in mind, detainment was ruled out. And so, the "clown" was beat by my hands.

But not to death. In the midst of the "clown" beating, a group of clowns (actual clowns, with identifying clown masks) came in. They basically complained at us, the security. But they didn't come attacking us with glass shards. They started taking care of the dead and wounded (the "clown" was still gasping according to my logs), and I left, prompted by their insulting words about why security wasn't doing anything. Judging by the fact that I was banned, they apparently did not bother saving or did not save the "clown" in time.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

While I understand that killing and executing people as security is a pretty shit thing to do, I also believe this standard changes depending on the condition of the station. When the ship is going down, it's harder and riskier to differentiate the people who are harming you between those who are intentionally killing you versus those who are not. People start following reasonable spur-of-them-moment judgments instead of the 'correct' and well-researched judgments and this is par for the course. My opinion is that this incident is an IC issue due to the IC conditions that lead to this, and does not violate Roleplay Policy 1 on murder. I believe that the situational escalation is an adequate enough justification for this case.

[BlessedHeretic]

Your choice in this matter was extremely poor. The Ai had cut you off from the brig, but that isn't a reason to whip out your baton on harm over a guy holding a glass shard attacking someone your SEC HUDS which you were wearing for the WHOLE ROUND would easily list as "Not security.". This assistant had assaulted the clown, and the clown attacked him with the lowest tier weapon you can use, literally lowest because without gloves it hurts you to use it. The person whom ahelped this said you beat the clown after the ASSISTANT SHOT LASERS AT HIM.

The clown had no weapons that could really be used against you, cuffing him and holding him is always an option, locking him in medbay patient rooms is hilariously useful, locking him in cargo is useful, welding him in a locker is open for use. You had ways of detaining him without lethals. But no, you resorted to pure lethal over the most minor thing. Hell I could list a near infinite list of methods of non lethally detaining people in a crisis.

I will NOT revert this ban since it's only a day long, you made an unjustified murder with plenty of other options at hand. Policy demands unjustified murders are punished with a day ban. Worse of all, you ignored your sec hud, which is a very powerful tool that you almost deliberately have to ignore in order to make an error like this.

[ohnopigeons]

Your choice in this matter was extremely poor. The Ai had cut you off from the brig, but that isn't a reason to whip out your baton on harm over a guy holding a glass shard attacking someone your SEC HUDS which you were wearing for the WHOLE ROUND would easily list as "Not security.".

I contest the "extremely poor" judgement. Just because the person in question does not possess a security ID does not mean he is "not security". Assistant deputizations seem to be common enough in these sorts of situations where security is lacking, I have witnessed it many times. A deputization without the proper ID change makes sense in this context since the HoP was removed sometime in the middle of the round. Besides, this was well enough into the round that ID's stop being a source of trustworthiness due to extensive dead and braindeads, from which IDs can be pilfered. I stand by my behavioral observational judgement of the "assistant" in question that he was aligned with security. If it makes a difference, his PDA/ID listed him as "Admiral".

This assistant had assaulted the clown, and the clown attacked him with the lowest tier weapon you can use, literally lowest because without gloves it hurts you to use it.

This seems like very meta knowledge, and one that I am personally not familiar with due to never having tried assaulting people with shards. To me, shards would seem to be as deadly and as problematic as someone assaulting people with a broken bottle.

The person whom ahelped this said you beat the clown after the ASSISTANT SHOT LASERS AT HIM.

If you will see in the original post, the "assistant" and the "clown" ran into the break room mid-fight, with the "clown" chasing the "assistant". I would not have the knowledge of who started what, all I saw was the "clown" chasing the "assistant". I concluded that the "clown" was the aggressor, because I couldn't imagine any other scenario where someone would chase a security member wielding a laser gun.

The clown had no weapons that could really be used against you, cuffing him and holding him is always an option, locking him in medbay patient rooms is hilariously useful, locking him in cargo is useful, welding him in a locker is open for use. You had ways of detaining him without lethals. But no, you resorted to pure lethal over the most minor thing. Hell I could list a near infinite list of methods of non lethally detaining people in a crisis.

The point of detainment is to enforce rule of law. By this point, thanks to the actions of the AI isolating and eliminating the security force and wrecking the station, rule of law had effictively disappeared and survivalism became the top priority Yes, detainment would be TECHNICALLY possible but as I also said, that would be time-consuming and counterproductive.

I will NOT revert this ban since it's only a day long, you made an unjustified murder with plenty of other options at hand. Policy demands unjustified murders are punished with a day ban. Worse of all, you ignored your sec hud, which is a very powerful tool that you almost deliberately have to ignore in order to make an error like this.

I probably had other options, but due to the intensity of the situation, they were either not apparent or I did not see how they would be a better option at that point in time. I can't really comment on the policy itself but I stand by my opinion that the circumstances justified it. As for the sec hud, see point 1.

[ohnopigeons]

Since it doesn't seem like we we are agreeing on many fundamental points and making any ground, I would like to request that a headmin or head of bans take a look at this appeal and ask for their thoughts and views on the matter.

[elyina]

Here's what I see in the attack log:

"Assistant" flashes clown
Clown pulls out the shard and starts attacking
"Assistant" starts lasering the clown
Clown pursues the asssistant with his glass shard instead of backing down or trying to run

So, that makes it less bad. However, I have to ask, what exactly was preventing you from just cuffing the clown and sticking him on a chair? What I'm failing to see here is what made the execution necessary in this situation. If you had cuffed him and he started resisting then it would make more sense to me. What I'm wondering about more though, is this deputized assistant who decided a laser gun was the first resort against a shitty shard when he initiated the conflict in the first place. I'm sure it was very easy for ohnopigeons to get caught up in the moment with him witnessing another officer shooting lasers at someone, so I think this was directed at the wrong person. I am going to ask the officer/assistant to come explain in this thread.

[ohnopigeons]

Like you said, I got caught up in the moment. The clown thing happened within basically 1 minute or so of the previous encounter with the Unknown, who wasn't dangerously armed either but had definite malicious intent and could have very well gotten me killed. I saw the same thing with the clown when I saw him chasing the other officer. I knew that the other officer was definitely injured from the AI and one of the first conclusions I came to when I saw them was that the clown was trying to finish off an almost-dead officer with a shard so he could grab his lasers and in turn use them against me, as part of the security team.

Not to mention I was in the middle of taking care of my own business at the time, recharging my weapons, reorganizing my inventory and so forth. The clown assaulting the officer was a definite unexpected interruption and caught me off-guard and unprepared. It seemed likely that I was going to fumble the cuffs and detainment, and if not me then maybe the other injured officer and we would end up both dead. So as a result of the state of my and the other officer's injuries, being caught off-guard, a seemingly very-antagonistic clown, and the previous similar encounter which almost got the better of me, the first solution that came to mind was also the previous solution I applied to the Unknown: harmbatoning to death.

[elyina]

I've made the decision to remove your ban and the job bans that came with it. I don't want this thread closed yet though, the other officer has explaining to do.

[ohnopigeons]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[elyina]

They were notified of the thread on the 17th and have had several days to respond, the bans are just going to be moved over to the officer who started this. Resolved.