RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

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rubjellyonme
 
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RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:05 pm #416319

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Post Content:
Byond account and character name: rubjellyonme jellyton shinobu
Banning admin: SPT
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Head of Security Role ban
Ban reason and length: Said something about rule 5 because I drank alcohol as head of security, even though the office spawns vodka
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 11:57am eastern standard
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil):bagil
Your side of the story:I like to roleplay a drunken HoS and apparently since I can't robust every single assistant breaking into rooms when I'm outnumbered it's rule 5. I double checked rule 5 and do not believe to be in violation of this rule.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Nobody else even plays HoS, SPT says its a super important role to fuck up on but all I do is tell security to go help others and give the CMO a weapon to defend himself with alongside stopping crimes infront of me, but since I can't win every fight and drank alcohol apparently that's incompetence. I don't think I should be role banned because I don't metagame and brig people for 10 minutes over minor shit, I usually let people off with verbal warnings if they didn't do anything too bad. I put warrants on people resisting arrest/questioning especially if violence was involved. For stuff like thievery I just usually ask them to give up the what they took. If they get too far away I don't usually give chase because they could go down any number of passageways or have a trap setup and try to take my equipment.

I would also like to note he said I was warned for this previously, but I was not warned for this previously. Apparently there was a "note" or something on my account about how I RP as a drunkard HoS but I never heard any issues about this.
Last edited by rubjellyonme on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Sometinyprick
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby Sometinyprick » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:10 pm #416320

The thing is I wanted to give you a warning about this, I explained to you that getting yourself drunk as the HoS is being deliberately incompetent, I told you this would be fine as a one off or as a very occasional gimmick but you have been doing this shit for a straight week, every time you play HoS you get pissed the entire round and this makes you unable to properly play the role, I really wanted this to be a final warning but you couldn't understand that deliberately making yourself incapable is a bad thing.
i play leo bonhart, feel free to grief me

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rubjellyonme
 
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:14 pm #416321

Sometinyprick wrote:The thing is I wanted to give you a warning about this, I explained to you that getting yourself drunk as the HoS is being deliberately incompetent, I told you this would be fine as a one off or as a very occasional gimmick but you have been doing this shit for a straight week, every time you play HoS you get pissed the entire round and this makes you unable to properly play the role, I really wanted this to be a final warning but you couldn't understand that deliberately making yourself incapable is a bad thing.

Alcohol doesnt make you incapable, I rarely drink hard enough to throw up. I've arrested people while drunk before. if you don't want HoS getting drunk delete alcohol out of the main office where I spawn, it's a bit ridiculous to put ban bait in the office if that's not okay. Players being upset I can't robust assistants or get fucked as HoS and then blaming the alcohol is pretty dumb, especially when apparently nobody plays HoS because they're always targetted first apparently, according to ooc at least. You said I broke rule 5, which I don't see "upsetting the player base with a non rule breaking rule style" is. The players will blame something every round I don't see how their unjustified anger means anything.
Last edited by rubjellyonme on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby Sometinyprick » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:16 pm #416322

rubjellyonme wrote:
Sometinyprick wrote:The thing is I wanted to give you a warning about this, I explained to you that getting yourself drunk as the HoS is being deliberately incompetent, I told you this would be fine as a one off or as a very occasional gimmick but you have been doing this shit for a straight week, every time you play HoS you get pissed the entire round and this makes you unable to properly play the role, I really wanted this to be a final warning but you couldn't understand that deliberately making yourself incapable is a bad thing.

Alcohol doesnt make you incapable, I rarely drink hard enough to throw up. I've arrested people while drunk before. if you don't want HoS getting drunk delete alcohol out of the main office where I spawn, it's a bit ridiculous to put ban bait in the office if that's not okay.

Every single time I've observed you, you were throwing up and carrying around a strong alcoholic drink. There is a difference between getting slightly drunk and being pissed the entire round every round for a week.
i play leo bonhart, feel free to grief me

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:17 pm #416323

Sometinyprick wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
Sometinyprick wrote:The thing is I wanted to give you a warning about this, I explained to you that getting yourself drunk as the HoS is being deliberately incompetent, I told you this would be fine as a one off or as a very occasional gimmick but you have been doing this shit for a straight week, every time you play HoS you get pissed the entire round and this makes you unable to properly play the role, I really wanted this to be a final warning but you couldn't understand that deliberately making yourself incapable is a bad thing.

Alcohol doesnt make you incapable, I rarely drink hard enough to throw up. I've arrested people while drunk before. if you don't want HoS getting drunk delete alcohol out of the main office where I spawn, it's a bit ridiculous to put ban bait in the office if that's not okay.

Every single time I've observed you, you were throwing up and carrying around a strong alcoholic drink. There is a difference between getting slightly drunk and being pissed the entire round every round for a week.

Then remove alcohol and the alcohol perks, I have perks that heal me so I don't die as easily when drunk. if I wasn't drunk I'd still play the same so I don't see why you're blaming the alcohol. Especially when it's in the office. I see no rule saying you cannot drink as HoS

PostThis post was deleted by CitrusGender on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:17 pm.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby kevinz000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:20 pm #416326

You forgot to mention last night when you decided to flat out allow a chaplain to silently kill you with your own baton after drinking enough to repeatedly vomit.
You are not deserving of playing one of or even the most important and powerful role in the game.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby Sometinyprick » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:25 pm #416330

What I'm trying to explain to you is that as the HoS you are going to get into plenty of situations were you have to fight, now being unrobust isn't punishable in of itself but getting yourself drunk on purpose makes it far more difficult to arrest/fight/subdue and do the majority of the tasks the HoS is supposed to do along with making it far more difficult to communicate with your security team, to me this constitutes being deliberately incompetent because all of those things are harder to do while your character is very drunk. The feature is intended at people who don't have important roles, and it's not intended for you to be drunk literally all the time, nobody is saying you can't get drunk in the bar for 5-10 minutes every once in a while but the fact you do it ALL THE TIME is the problem here.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:32 pm #416333

kevinz000 wrote:You forgot to mention last night when you decided to flat out allow a chaplain to silently kill you with your own baton after drinking enough to repeatedly vomit.
You are not deserving of playing one of or even the most important and powerful role in the game.
Why because I couldn't beat someone in a fight? This is ridiculous. Of course I'm going to lose in a fight someone got the jump on me.
What's the difference between a dead HoS and nobody picking it to begin with? I don't abuse my power. How is anything you said against the rules?
Last edited by rubjellyonme on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:33 pm #416334

Sometinyprick wrote:What I'm trying to explain to you is that as the HoS you are going to get into plenty of situations were you have to fight, now being unrobust isn't punishable in of itself but getting yourself drunk on purpose makes it far more difficult to arrest/fight/subdue and do the majority of the tasks the HoS is supposed to do along with making it far more difficult to communicate with your security team, to me this constitutes being deliberately incompetent because all of those things are harder to do while your character is very drunk. The feature is intended at people who don't have important roles, and it's not intended for you to be drunk literally all the time, nobody is saying you can't get drunk in the bar for 5-10 minutes every once in a while but the fact you do it ALL THE TIME is the problem here.

Being drunk doesn't impact my gameplay, you're literally role banning me because I can't metagame hard enough.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Nabski » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:36 pm #416335

I have also watched you late join as a warden, proceed directly to the bar and spend the entire shift getting drunk. You stood there with your taser out until it was stolen, then would have done the same with your baton if another security officer hadn't helped you. In the half-hour I spent circling you you never even made it to the brig.

PostThis post was deleted by CitrusGender on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:17 pm.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:38 pm #416338

Nabski wrote:I have also watched you late join as a warden, proceed directly to the bar and spend the entire shift getting drunk. You stood there with your taser out until it was stolen, then would have done the same with your baton if another security officer hadn't helped you. In the half-hour I spent circling you you never even made it to the brig.

Am I supposed to be in the brig as warden? Just afking doing nothing?

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby kevinz000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:39 pm #416341

I'm convinced you're doing all this in bad faith. He isn't personally upset, I watchlisted you after you did it for three rounds in a row last night.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Nabski » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:47 pm #416342

rubjellyonme wrote:
Nabski wrote:I have also watched you late join as a warden, proceed directly to the bar and spend the entire shift getting drunk. You stood there with your taser out until it was stolen, then would have done the same with your baton if another security officer hadn't helped you. In the half-hour I spent circling you you never even made it to the brig.

Am I supposed to be in the brig as warden? Just afking doing nothing?


Handling the armory, ensuring people get fair sentences, keeping the brig clean and useful are all warden specific roles. If you want to expand that then you can also work with the lawyers to do trials and interrogations.

You once again took a role that has special access and duties that there is only one spot of, and fucked around refusing to do your job. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you end up banned from security as a whole if you keep going like this. But that's not the point of this appeal and I'm going off topic.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:51 pm #416343

Nabski wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
Nabski wrote:I have also watched you late join as a warden, proceed directly to the bar and spend the entire shift getting drunk. You stood there with your taser out until it was stolen, then would have done the same with your baton if another security officer hadn't helped you. In the half-hour I spent circling you you never even made it to the brig.

Am I supposed to be in the brig as warden? Just afking doing nothing?


Handling the armory, ensuring people get fair sentences, keeping the brig clean and useful are all warden specific roles. If you want to expand that then you can also work with the lawyers to do trials and interrogations.

You once again took a role that has special access and duties that there is only one spot of, and fucked around refusing to do your job. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you end up banned from security as a whole if you keep going like this. But that's not the point of this appeal and I'm going off topic.

I thought warden was just a security job, my bad. I do know I was doing HoS right I order security around when need be. You just personally don't like I didn't use that pointer tool thing for some reason

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:51 pm #416344

kevinz000 wrote:I'm convinced you're doing all this in bad faith. He isn't personally upset, I watchlisted you after you did it for three rounds in a row last night.

How is roleplaying in a roleplaying game bad faith?
I've had some of my best rounds on this server
One round I was screaming about groms and got locked up in medbay in a straight jacket as some guy acted as a therapist. Why are you disallowing fun
Image

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Sometinyprick » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:00 pm #416347

rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:I'm convinced you're doing all this in bad faith. He isn't personally upset, I watchlisted you after you did it for three rounds in a row last night.

How is roleplaying in a roleplaying game bad faith?
I've had some of my best rounds on this server
One round I was screaming about groms and got locked up in medbay in a straight jacket as some guy acted as a therapist. Why are you disallowing fun
Image

I'm not saying you can't have fun dude, I wouldn't even care if you did this as a security officer but it's just the fact we expect more from the head roles, if you want to be an incompetent drunk security officer (infact it's the reason you aren't banned from security) go right ahead I'm not going to stop you, but there has to be someone who can be relied upon and so a higher standard is placed on head roles.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby kevinz000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:01 pm #416348

Just like other questionable gimmicks you've run this into the ground. It's funny once or twice, done on occasion and in moderation. You did this too much to make it any fun or interesting anymore.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:04 pm #416351

kevinz000 wrote:Just like other questionable gimmicks you've run this into the ground. It's funny once or twice, done on occasion and in moderation. You did this too much to make it any fun or interesting anymore.

You are literally policing how I play even though it doesnt violate rules. Please stop this nonsense. I am not in violation of rules

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:05 pm #416352

Sometinyprick wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:I'm convinced you're doing all this in bad faith. He isn't personally upset, I watchlisted you after you did it for three rounds in a row last night.

How is roleplaying in a roleplaying game bad faith?
I've had some of my best rounds on this server
One round I was screaming about groms and got locked up in medbay in a straight jacket as some guy acted as a therapist. Why are you disallowing fun
Image

I'm not saying you can't have fun dude, I wouldn't even care if you did this as a security officer but it's just the fact we expect more from the head roles, if you want to be an incompetent drunk security officer (infact it's the reason you aren't banned from security) go right ahead I'm not going to stop you, but there has to be someone who can be relied upon and so a higher standard is placed on head roles.

But nobody else was playing HoS it'll just go back to being an empty role as I joine din on mid way rounds and HoS was empty.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby kevinz000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:13 pm #416355

You playing HoS is worse than there being no HoS if you play it like this over and over.
Also, I chalk this up as not putting in minimal effort as a head of staff.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:13 pm #416356

kevinz000 wrote:You playing HoS is worse than there being no HoS if you play it like this over and over.
Also, I chalk this up as not putting in minimal effort as a head of staff.

I was putting in effort, I did my job.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby kevinz000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:15 pm #416357

rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:You playing HoS is worse than there being no HoS if you play it like this over and over.
Also, I chalk this up as not putting in minimal effort as a head of staff.

I was putting in effort, I did my job.

You did not, and your attitude in ahelps in this situation doesn't convince me that you care enough about attempting to follow what we tell you about rule 5 or that you're trying at all, otherwise this would likely have been a warning from STP.
I stand by my decision, headmins are of course free to overturn my note.
Hope I'm not derailing this appeal, as the note and ban goes hand and hand and are directly related.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Sometinyprick » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:16 pm #416358

rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:Just like other questionable gimmicks you've run this into the ground. It's funny once or twice, done on occasion and in moderation. You did this too much to make it any fun or interesting anymore.

You are literally policing how I play even though it doesnt violate rules. Please stop this nonsense. I am not in violation of rules

I'm sorry dude, but we have rules against being deliberately incompetent, as I said getting drunk occasionally is fine even as a head, being drunk for ninety percent of the round is not. My opinion isn't going to change, if you want to accept that it's not something you should be doing all the time for the entire round then I'll remove the ban because that's what I'm trying to make you understand. If not then I'll leave it for a headmin to decide what happens.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:17 pm #416360

Sometinyprick wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:Just like other questionable gimmicks you've run this into the ground. It's funny once or twice, done on occasion and in moderation. You did this too much to make it any fun or interesting anymore.

You are literally policing how I play even though it doesnt violate rules. Please stop this nonsense. I am not in violation of rules

I'm sorry dude, but we have rules against being deliberately incompetent, as I said getting drunk occasionally is fine even as a head, being drunk for ninety percent of the round is not. My opinion isn't going to change, if you want to accept that it's not something you should be doing all the time for the entire round then I'll remove the ban because that's what I'm trying to make you understand. If not then I'll leave it for a headmin to decide what happens.

Your opinion is wrong, being drunk doesnt = incompetence. Theres perks that HEAL ME for being drunk

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:18 pm #416361

kevinz000 wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:You playing HoS is worse than there being no HoS if you play it like this over and over.
Also, I chalk this up as not putting in minimal effort as a head of staff.

I was putting in effort, I did my job.

You did not, and your attitude in ahelps in this situation doesn't convince me that you care enough about attempting to follow what we tell you about rule 5 or that you're trying at all, otherwise this would likely have been a warning from STP.
I stand by my decision, headmins are of course free to overturn my note.
Hope I'm not derailing this appeal, as the note and ban goes hand and hand and are directly related.

He told me I was warned for this before but I literally wasnt, someone put a "note" or whatever and then never boinked me about it. I didn't break rule 5 I put maximum effort into my job.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby kevinz000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:24 pm #416362

I put the note, I wanted to see if you did it again or if it was a one off thing. It's apparent you did it again and you don't intend to stop running the same ""gimmick"" into the ground at the detriment of everyone's round. Don't even take the job if you aren't going to play it.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5

Postby somerandomguy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:43 pm #416369

Anon3 amendment time

rubjellyonme wrote:
Bluespace wrote:"I see no rule saying you cannot drink as HoS" - jelly
"don't do this" - admin
"no i will do it" - jelly
"wtf why banned?" - jelly

The admin decided to make up a rule on the spot that didn't exist before because he got personally upset I'm not metagaming hard enough

Rule 0 exists, so they CAN do that if they feel it benefits the server. If a headmin believes otherwise, they will lift it, but that won't happen if you make yourself look like someone who thinks their interpretation of the rules is absolute. Also, if you think using info about the game itself is metagaming, you should probably find a server that isn't low-RP.

rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:Just like other questionable gimmicks you've run this into the ground. It's funny once or twice, done on occasion and in moderation. You did this too much to make it any fun or interesting anymore.

You are literally policing how I play even though it doesnt violate rules. Please stop this nonsense. I am not in violation of rules

That's a general statement and suggestion to change, not an accusation of rule-breaking.

rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:You playing HoS is worse than there being no HoS if you play it like this over and over.
Also, I chalk this up as not putting in minimal effort as a head of staff.

I was putting in effort, I did my job.

You did not, and your attitude in ahelps in this situation doesn't convince me that you care enough about attempting to follow what we tell you about rule 5 or that you're trying at all, otherwise this would likely have been a warning from STP.
I stand by my decision, headmins are of course free to overturn my note.
Hope I'm not derailing this appeal, as the note and ban goes hand and hand and are directly related.

He told me I was warned for this before but I literally wasnt, someone put a "note" or whatever and then never boinked me about it. I didn't break rule 5 I put maximum effort into my job.

rubjellyonme wrote:You just personally don't like I didn't use that pointer tool thing for some reason

If you put maximum effort in, you would've at least read the wiki and would know what a pinpointer is and why you should use it when there are ops.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:44 pm #416371

I agree its weird to offer an alchoholism trait and penalize players for being alcoholics.

Also kind of torn on the rationale behind this ban because incompetent heads of staff are annoying to deal with but it pretty directly feeds into the norp silent validhunt playstyle when we ban people who deviate from it.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby kevinz000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:47 pm #416372

he is the extreme opposite of the norp silent validhunt playstyle, and my rationale behind it is that being the extreme opposite of silent powergaming validhunt HoS (so a living loot pinata that will block an important role and derail the round through incompetence) is just as bad as running around with stimulants killing anyone you legally can.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby MrStonedOne » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:04 pm #416374

rule 0, and rule -1 (its ok if its funny) are at play here.

Rule 0, its in the best interest of the server and round to not have vomiting drunk heads of staff every shift.

Rule -1 allowed you to get away with it for a bit, but after running it into the ground by doing it nearly every shift, you lost the protections of rule -1, and got politely asked to cool it down, which you ignored.

From this point on, any post not directly addressing the "Running it into the ground" part of this ban will be deleted, as its the only part of this ban that matters. Any "allowed" but net negative behavior can be ban worthy if repeated and requests to tone it down are ignored.

And we aren't going to play this "its weird that this feature exists if it can get you banned" game. any player who can't understand moderation when an admin directly spells it out for them can go to another server more their speed, like cm or goon.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:08 pm #416378

MrStonedOne wrote:rule 0, and rule -1 (its ok if its funny) are at play here.

Rule 0, its in the best interest of the server and round to not have vomiting drunk heads of staff every shift.

Rule -1 allowed you to get away with it for a bit, but after running it into the ground by doing it nearly every shift, you lost the protections of rule -1, and got politely asked to cool it down, which you ignored.

From this point on, any post not directly addressing the "Running it into the ground" part of this ban will be deleted, as its the only part of this ban that matters. Any "allowed" but net negative behavior can be ban worthy if repeated and requests to tone it down are ignored.

And we aren't going to play this "its weird that this feature exists if it can get you banned" game. any player who can't understand moderation when an admin directly spells it out for them can go to another server more their speed, like cm or goon.

I wasn't vomitting every shift but I can make myself vomit less if need be, sometimes I go full crazy with the reality distortion syndrome and do stuff like get naked and set myself on fire or whatever I think of, if you can get banned for using alcohol as a game perk then just get rid of the alcohol perks and the bait ban juice in the HoS office on that one map because it's silly to have those in then ban people for using it.

You can mock the reasoning all you want but one of your coders even mocked how strange that is.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby MrStonedOne » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:13 pm #416381

rubjellyonme wrote:
MrStonedOne wrote:rule 0, and rule -1 (its ok if its funny) are at play here.

Rule 0, its in the best interest of the server and round to not have vomiting drunk heads of staff every shift.

Rule -1 allowed you to get away with it for a bit, but after running it into the ground by doing it nearly every shift, you lost the protections of rule -1, and got politely asked to cool it down, which you ignored.

From this point on, any post not directly addressing the "Running it into the ground" part of this ban will be deleted, as its the only part of this ban that matters. Any "allowed" but net negative behavior can be ban worthy if repeated and requests to tone it down are ignored.

And we aren't going to play this "its weird that this feature exists if it can get you banned" game. any player who can't understand moderation when an admin directly spells it out for them can go to another server more their speed, like cm or goon.

I wasn't vomitting every shift but I can make myself vomit less if need be, sometimes I go full crazy with the reality distortion syndrome and do stuff like get naked and set myself on fire or whatever I think of, if you can get banned for using alcohol as a game perk then just get rid of the alcohol perks and the bait ban juice in the HoS office on that one map because it's silly to have those in then ban people for using it.


You weren't banned for using it, you were banned for abusing it and ignoring an admin when they attempted to tell you you had crossed the line from fun gimmick into abuse of game feature.

We are not going to restrict the activities of the players who can exercise moderation because you can't and can't listen when somebody tries to tell you you're taking it too far.
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PostThis post was deleted by kevinz000 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:15 pm.
Reason: what MSO said basically

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:22 pm #416386

MrStonedOne wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
MrStonedOne wrote:rule 0, and rule -1 (its ok if its funny) are at play here.

Rule 0, its in the best interest of the server and round to not have vomiting drunk heads of staff every shift.

Rule -1 allowed you to get away with it for a bit, but after running it into the ground by doing it nearly every shift, you lost the protections of rule -1, and got politely asked to cool it down, which you ignored.

From this point on, any post not directly addressing the "Running it into the ground" part of this ban will be deleted, as its the only part of this ban that matters. Any "allowed" but net negative behavior can be ban worthy if repeated and requests to tone it down are ignored.

And we aren't going to play this "its weird that this feature exists if it can get you banned" game. any player who can't understand moderation when an admin directly spells it out for them can go to another server more their speed, like cm or goon.

I wasn't vomitting every shift but I can make myself vomit less if need be, sometimes I go full crazy with the reality distortion syndrome and do stuff like get naked and set myself on fire or whatever I think of, if you can get banned for using alcohol as a game perk then just get rid of the alcohol perks and the bait ban juice in the HoS office on that one map because it's silly to have those in then ban people for using it.


You weren't banned for using it, you were banned for abusing it and ignoring an admin when they attempted to tell you you had crossed the line from fun gimmick into abuse of game feature.

We are not going to restrict the activities of the players who can exercise moderation because you can't and can't listen when somebody tries to tell you you're taking it too far.

He told me I was warned for it before and I said I wasn't. He then said I violated rule 5 which I didn't. I only argued that what I did was within the rules.
Why can't I be drunk every round? Isn't it metagaming to say that?
Last edited by rubjellyonme on Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Mickyan » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:23 pm #416387

Kor wrote:I agree its weird to offer an alchoholism trait and penalize players for being alcoholics.

As the person who made that trait I would just like to point out:
1. It's not an "alcoholic" trait, not even the flavor text implies being compelled to get drunk. You also don't even need to get completely shitfaced to make use of it
2. The healing benefits it gives are so small despite its heavy drawbacks (stuns/confusion/dizziness etc.) that relying on that for heals as a head of staff is comparable to a captain trying to kill nuke ops with a flyswatter, on the incompetence scale
3. Preemptively getting drunk and staying that way just in case you get hurt later is more likely to kill you than save you since liver damage is a thing


I know MSO said this isn't really relevant to the ban reason but I thought it was an important bit of context
Last edited by Mickyan on Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:24 pm #416388

Mickyan wrote:
Kor wrote:I agree its weird to offer an alchoholism trait and penalize players for being alcoholics.

As the person who made that trait I would just like to point out:
1. It's not an "alcoholic" trait, not even the flavor text implies being compelled to get drunk. You also don't even need to get completely shitfaced to make use of it
2. The healing benefits it gives are so small despite its heavy drawbacks (stuns/confusion/dizziness etc.) that relying on that for heals as a head of staff is comparable to a captain trying to kill nuke ops with a flyswatter, on the incompetence scale
3. Preemptively getting drunk and staying that way just in case you get hurt later is more likely to kill you than save you since liver damage is a thing

I thought the drunker I get the more healing it does.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Sometinyprick » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:28 pm #416389

rubjellyonme wrote:
MrStonedOne wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
MrStonedOne wrote:rule 0, and rule -1 (its ok if its funny) are at play here.

Rule 0, its in the best interest of the server and round to not have vomiting drunk heads of staff every shift.

Rule -1 allowed you to get away with it for a bit, but after running it into the ground by doing it nearly every shift, you lost the protections of rule -1, and got politely asked to cool it down, which you ignored.

From this point on, any post not directly addressing the "Running it into the ground" part of this ban will be deleted, as its the only part of this ban that matters. Any "allowed" but net negative behavior can be ban worthy if repeated and requests to tone it down are ignored.

And we aren't going to play this "its weird that this feature exists if it can get you banned" game. any player who can't understand moderation when an admin directly spells it out for them can go to another server more their speed, like cm or goon.

I wasn't vomitting every shift but I can make myself vomit less if need be, sometimes I go full crazy with the reality distortion syndrome and do stuff like get naked and set myself on fire or whatever I think of, if you can get banned for using alcohol as a game perk then just get rid of the alcohol perks and the bait ban juice in the HoS office on that one map because it's silly to have those in then ban people for using it.


You weren't banned for using it, you were banned for abusing it and ignoring an admin when they attempted to tell you you had crossed the line from fun gimmick into abuse of game feature.

We are not going to restrict the activities of the players who can exercise moderation because you can't and can't listen when somebody tries to tell you you're taking it too far.

He told me I was warned for it before and I said I wasn't. He then said I violated rule 5 which I didn't. I only argued that what I did was within the rules.

I originally told you that you were warned, but I checked the note and noticed it was secret and assumed Kevinz hadn't talked to you and informed you I made a mistake. At that point I told you I was going to give you a final warning to cut it out but you disagreed with me and kept arguing that you should be allowed to do it all the time, I told you no and you continued to disagree so I felt my only option was to ban you from head roles because you couldn't accept that you were completely overdoing it. I told you many times it's ok to be drunk sometimes as a HoS, it's sometimes okay to be drunk all the time as the HoS as a dumb gimmick every so often. However it's not okay to spend an entire week doing nothing but immediately getting drunk from roundstart to roundend as a head.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Mickyan » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:30 pm #416391

rubjellyonme wrote:
Mickyan wrote:
Kor wrote:I agree its weird to offer an alchoholism trait and penalize players for being alcoholics.

I thought the drunker I get the more healing it does.

Yeah, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to do so when you're playing a job with responsibilities and have access to better options

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:43 pm #416397

Mickyan wrote:
rubjellyonme wrote:
Mickyan wrote:
Kor wrote:I agree its weird to offer an alchoholism trait and penalize players for being alcoholics.

I thought the drunker I get the more healing it does.

Yeah, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to do so when you're playing a job with responsibilities and have access to better options

There's better drugs than alcohol in ss13?

PostThis post was deleted by CitrusGender on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:16 pm.
Reason: Not involved

PostThis post was deleted by CitrusGender on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:16 pm.
Reason: Response to previous post

PostThis post was deleted by CitrusGender on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:16 pm.
Reason: Not involved

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby CitrusGender » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:15 pm #416409

This appeal fascinates me. It's very rare that we a see a playstyle that is the complete opposite the valid hunting HoS who supposedly will "permabrig someone for disarming people." Do I think there's some value in the other extreme of the spectrum? Absolutely. However, I feel like this has gotten to the point that you are causing a detriment to the round whereby you are impairing security and not doing your job each round. If you've received complaints about it before, why keep doing it? It's fine for a few one off things, but I think continuously doing it and getting complaints about it is enough to know that it's hurting other people's rounds and it requires admins to step in. I understand completely that you want to have this type of play style, but it has the unintended side effect of giving traitors an edge and essentially making security useless without good leadership.

It's effectively: "I like what you're doing, but it's gotten to the point of affecting everyone else." As such, this appeal is denied. If you understand what I am saying though and you can admit that it causes a problem, we could shorten it and put probation.

Edit: also HOLY FUCK PLEASE CAN ONLY OP OR A HEADMIN RESPOND NEXT.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby rubjellyonme » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:02 am #416555

CitrusGender wrote:This appeal fascinates me. It's very rare that we a see a playstyle that is the complete opposite the valid hunting HoS who supposedly will "permabrig someone for disarming people." Do I think there's some value in the other extreme of the spectrum? Absolutely. However, I feel like this has gotten to the point that you are causing a detriment to the round whereby you are impairing security and not doing your job each round. If you've received complaints about it before, why keep doing it? It's fine for a few one off things, but I think continuously doing it and getting complaints about it is enough to know that it's hurting other people's rounds and it requires admins to step in. I understand completely that you want to have this type of play style, but it has the unintended side effect of giving traitors an edge and essentially making security useless without good leadership.

It's effectively: "I like what you're doing, but it's gotten to the point of affecting everyone else." As such, this appeal is denied. If you understand what I am saying though and you can admit that it causes a problem, we could shorten it and put probation.

Edit: also HOLY FUCK PLEASE CAN ONLY OP OR A HEADMIN RESPOND NEXT.
I understand, however I do wish to note this was the first time I was warned by admin for this.

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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Cobby » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:14 am #416585

The point of the thread is that you still did it after being told to stop.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby CitrusGender » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:28 am #416595

Consider this to be the consequence of the multiple times it happened. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever be able to run the RP gimmick without admin permission in the future due to the nature of the situation. It's completely fine to do this once or twice but it seems like you were pushing it. I'll lower the command ban to two weeks and give you probation for command roles for two weeks after the command ban has lapsed.

Again, I want this to be a statement to everyone that you can roleplay as an incapable HoS, but if it becomes a habit and it starts to hurt other people in the round by being a walking piñata of weapons, that's not okay.

If any other headmin wants to comment, feel free.

Edit: Actually, I'm feeling nice. I'll lower the ban to one week and two weeks probation.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby CitrusGender » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:28 pm #416705

You know what, I've had a complete change of heart regarding this appeal. If I understand this correctly, this ban shouldn't have even happened. The only reason it happened was because the player disagreed with STP and he just wanted the player to admit there was a problem.

I'm just going to lift the ban and the probation. This is completely dumb. I still think he should use moderation in the future so that his gimmick doesn't fuck up the round for everyone else: but I'm starting to realize that banning people for this is just not worth it.

So, in retrospect, this appeal is accepted.
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Re: RoleBan from HoS for rule 5(Edit: Apparently ALL head roles)

Postby Rustledjimm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:06 am #416844

I would like to add that personally I think the ban was a sufficient warning that a gimmick had gone too far if you had been warned previously and had not changed. Of course STP did not realise you had not already been warned but that the note on your account was an observation not a note about warning.

For what it's worth I think your drunk gimmick is fine, but like most gimmicks if you run it into the ground it becomes detrimental especially in an important role like HoS. I think this is what STP was trying to get at you here, moderate your gimmicks, especially in important roles.

Also if an admin tells you to not do something don't go "well I'm gonna do it anyway" cause that usually ends up in you being banned.
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