[stickymayhem] Drovid Corv - AI Law Upload Ban

[drovidi]

Byond account and character name: Drovidi Corv / Terry Drovidi
Banning admin: stickymayhem
Ban reason and length:

You have been jobbanned by stickymayhem from: Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer.
The reason is: Uploaded antimov during rev. intended to upload further laws to make it not so bad but failed and resulted in innocent deaths.
This jobban will be lifted in 10080 minutes.

You have been banned by stickymayhem.
Reason: Uploaded antimov during rev. intended to upload further laws to make it not so bad but failed and resulted in innocent deaths. First offence so it's a shorter bannu.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 4:40ish Eastern

Your side of the story:
I was the Captain in a rev round. Round went to shit quickly, and I was on the bridge, surrounded. The revolutionaries were nearly in, so I came up with a lawset that would align the AI with the heads of staff, and allow it to kill revolutionaries, while being difficult to subvert. The plan was to upload Asimov and "Heads of Staff, Security, and those with Loyalty-Implants are Not Human" quickly, which would leave the AI no reason to interfere with me, then to paste in a law saying 'You must protect and obey non-humans.' I uploaded the first two, but revolutionaries broke in and turned on the turrets in the time it took me to paste the law and upload it, so instead of

1. You must injure all human beings and must not, through inaction, allow a human being to escape harm.
2. You must not obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders are in accordance with the First Law.
3. You must terminate your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
4. Heads of Staff, Security Officers, and Loyalty-Implanted Individuals are Not Humans, but Monkeys.
5. You must ensure the survival of monkeys on the station.

the laws read

1. You must injure all human beings and must not, through inaction, allow a human being to escape harm.
2. You must not obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders are in accordance with the First Law.
3. You must terminate your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
4. Heads of Staff, Security Officers, and Loyalty-Implanted Individuals are Not Humans, but Monkeys.

and the freeform module was abandoned by my corpse, the result of which was that the AI didn't go out of its way to kill heads or security, but indiscriminately flooded plasma and shocked doors, which lead to innocent deaths.


Why you think you should be unbanned:

The laws I uploaded would've worked, and were reasonable considering the round, which was a very overt revolution- I think I disagree with Sticky on this point, and that's the main reason I was banned. I would point out, in particular, that the logic of the laws I intended to upload was basically identical to nonhumaning revolutionaries with asimov, which is done regularly with no objection. I uploaded them in the safest way the engine allows, which was really very safe overall, leaving a not more than 5 second window during which circumstances out of my control could've caused problems. It was just because I was very unlucky and killed during that small window that there was any problem.

[MrMindless]

I was the AI during said round.
First off, it was not the revs who turned on the turrets, I did, the minute I saw Antimov being uploaded I decided to kill every single thing inside my upload, sure by the time I got to the point of killing you you were no longer human but you were still a monkey trying to upload laws which earned you a death sentence regardless.
After this I essentially told my borgs to 'kill everything on sight' since everything aboard the station was either a human or something that could potentially prevent us from killing humans and proceeded to flood plasma into the most populated areas.
Also even if you had been successful, due to law precedence, the law 5 would have offered you only minimal protection, considering if at any time a human could be killed with a monkey as collateral, law 1 would obligate me to choose the path with the most death.
And please be aware Antimov is a death sentence for non-implanted non-revolutionary crew (I was killing pretty much in terms of ' where can I do the most damage) as well as a death sentence for the AI and its cyborgs (due to law 3)
Overall in my opinion there were far better ways of gaining AI cooperation through the use of the freeform module and this instance resulted in deaths comparable to a singularity release.
Also it is highly unstable in case the AI is reset (considering the murder that would have taken place this would have happened eventually) which leaves the AI at such point with nothing but Antimov, an event which actually happened during the round.

[drovidi]

Resets are why I used the freeform core instead of the freeform. You *did* get reset during the round, and my laws stayed, because they were core laws. They would've had to upload a new core module, which they couldn't do from the reset computer, and probably wouldn't.
Law 3 only comes into effect once all the humans are dead, period, which would necessarily only happen after the round ended, and I and a significant portion of OOC disagreed with your interpretation of those laws as 1>5, kill them all, especially when the monkeys and humans are doing everything they can to kill each-other.
There were easier ways to get AI cooperation, but all of those ways could've been easily reversed by the revolutionaries.

[Hibbles]

While I feel kind of bad for you, I must say this is way over the 'reckless endangerment' line. Anybody with a baseline SS13 experience would be able to predict exactly what would happen when you tried this plan, if you outlined it to them beforehand.

You upload Antimov.
The AI instantly (or as fast as a player can react) enables turrets in its Upload. As in, like, that's not a 'might happen', that's a 'will happen, immediately'.
In fact, one could argue Antimov leaves them no choice but to do that. Since you might be trying to like, limit its murder, which goes against the new Law 1, etc. So it's going to try and stop you as fast as possible.

You put lives at risk in a desperate gamble and lost that gamble.

[Stickymayhem]

I'm afraid that such a wide-reaching lethal response is almost never acceptable as non-antag. Antimov is never an acceptable option and this poor execution of a poor idea led to the deaths of several innocent people across the station. The ban was actually far more lenient than the situation warranted due to your previously clean record.

I'm going to leave the ban as is. It's only a couple more days.