[Nervere] DinduStuffin - Permaban

[DinduStuffin2]

Byond account and character name: DinduStuffin, Corey Something, forgot already
Banning admin: Nervere
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server
Ban reason and length: Permaban, giving the ai several laws based around a copy pasta; https://www.digg.com/r/copypasta/comm ... v_milkies/
Time ban was placed (including time zone): like 5:40 PMish CST
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil I think. The one that has the most players
Your side of the story: I mean that's all there is to it. I uploaded a bunch of laws around the mommy milkies copypasta.
Why you think you should be unbanned: Because it's fucking harmless. I don't really think it's all that creepy. I understand creepy is a highly subjective term, whose definition and boundaries will vary from person to person, but I really don't think this is that far into the realm of creepy. It's just stupid. It's not like it was any sexual shit. Are any lines in game that mock manchildren suddenly bannable now?

[DinduStuffin2]

I'm so fucking confused because, unless there was a radical policy change out of nowhere, reading WGW over comms has always been fine. Adding laws to the AI that are way tamer than WGW by pretty much every standard should result in what WGW results in -- public lynchings in game -- not some fucking server permaban. The admin made no attempt to explain it to me when I asked, he just permabanned me and said "You know this is bad and did it anyways" or something similar in my ban reason.
Here's the exact ban.

[Shadowflame909]

Isnt the whole funny point of this copypasta that its written by a 30 something year old man pretending to be an angry spoiled child who wants to drink his mothers milk.

That's weird dude I'll give you that, but admins straight up delete people for WGW now.

[DinduStuffin2]

Isnt the whole funny point of this copypasta that its written by a 30 something year old man pretending to be an angry spoiled child who wants to drink his mothers milk.

That's weird dude I'll give you that, but admins straight up delete people for WGW now.

What in the fuck? I thought WGW lynchings were like, a staple here. Since when did they delete people for it?

[Saegrimr]

What in the fuck? I thought WGW lynchings were like, a staple here. Since when did they delete people for it?

Probably since everybody did it every round to get chased around/valids, much like killing Ian.
Yeah i'm sure it's fucking hilarious the first dozen times unless you've been playing round after round for god knows how many months/years seeing it constantly.

People run shit into the ground constantly here, and ruin it for the rest.

[DinduStuffin2]

What in the fuck? I thought WGW lynchings were like, a staple here. Since when did they delete people for it?

Probably since everybody did it every round to get chased around/valids, much like killing Ian.
Yeah i'm sure it's fucking hilarious the first dozen times unless you've been playing round after round for god knows how many months/years seeing it constantly.

People run shit into the ground constantly here, and ruin it for the rest.

And I get that, but in the years I've been playing (almost like 5 I think?) the only place I've seen that had it either daily, or almost every round was Hippie Station. The point remains though, if something like that results in a delete, why does this result in a permaban? Like, I don't remember the laws I put specifically, but they weren't near as weird or sexual as WGW is.

Also, for transparency, I've found what the actual laws in question are. It's not shockingly weird or sexual in the same vein as WGW but pretty fucking stupid and thus to me wildly hilarious.

[DinduStuffin2]

That's a good question. Like, I don't wanna be that guy, because seriously fuck that guy, but, are we seriously going to treat dumb, furry AI laws in the same way rape would be treated? A line between kosher and not kosher must be drawn, absolutely, but it needs to be clearly defined. Admins have tools that let them smite people, give them brain damage, turn them into various harmless mobs, tools to publicly shame them, can lynch them, BSA them, turn them into a blubbering furry with a brain tumor, and many, many more things that make it clear shit like this isn't tolerated, or if they don't wanna encourage anyone, can straight up delete them, kick them from the server, and other more private things.

So why is it an instant permaban? This is straight up jumping the gun and is totally unnecessary. I'd love for the admin who banned me to explain his reasoning here because he didn't even explain to me in what way this was so absurdly wrong. Hell, he seemed so non-chalant about this shit that I genuinely thought he was joking at first in the logs.

[Arianya]

Personally, I don't think this should have been a permanent ban.

That said, as Saeg pointed out, admin tolerance on copy pastas, especially ones that push up against if not breach rule 8 is pretty low, even if you "only did it once", as players have generally worn the gag thin. Admittedly this is more "original" then WGW spam, but the point is that we'd prefer not to have creepy pseudo-incestual copy pasta being spammed out on the radio every time someone asks for laws because you uploaded it to the AI.

Applying a similar standard as is applied to WGW currently, this probably should have resulted in "divine punishment", whether that's a gibbing or lightning bolt or simply a delete, rather then a ban. It would only be on repeated use over several rounds that we would start to look at bwoinking you for it, since repeatedly doing it is disruptive to the round and just kinda dumb.

Bear in mind that rule 8 applies both to "ironic" creepy stuff and unironic creepy stuff, because tone is hard online and generally speaking it's just something we'd rather not deal with, as a general rule.

[Spyroshark]

I don’t see how this is permaban worthy.

[Dax Dupont]

Unless you spammed the upload or you do it constantly it's probably okay, is there any prior history though that's relevant?

[Rustledjimm]

We've heard enough from others for now thank you. I'd like everyone to wait for nervere to respond.

[Nervere]

There were multiple factors at play here that I'd like to address.

Firstly, your actions being a part of a copypasta do not make them any more acceptable.
This ban is for creepy behavior as demonstrated by the lawset uploaded, it makes no difference to me whether or not it's something that is commonly spread around by some people.
Neither does it make it any less of a poor experience for those who have to read what you uploaded.

Next, this situation isn't comparable to posting WGW. In uploading AI laws with that kind of creepy content, you're forcing the AI, as well as all of its cyborgs, to read and follow directives that amount to being gross and sexually explicit.
Let's not forget, either, that every time you upload a new law, your entire set of laws uploaded thus far are repeated in its entirety to the AI. The AI shouldn't have to experience it, the cyborgs shouldn't have to experience it.
Reading WGW isn't necessarily allowed, either - it's still a blatant violation of rule 8 - you just typically won't get banned for it because there's precedent for that specific "joke" for you to just get deleted by admins or beat to death by the crew.

Lastly, it doesn't help your case that this was done to the AI after war had been declared by nuclear operatives. This is besides the main point of the ban, but it's still something that I took into consideration.
This raises the point, though, that I did fail here in that I didn't properly explain to you my reasoning before applying the ban.
This was not entirely without reason - my justification at the time is that you're by no means a new player and it goes without saying that you shouldn't spam sexually explicitly/creepy content - but I still could have improved in how I approached you in a-helps and expressing my point-of-view. I apologize in that regard.

All of this being said, however, I am willing to lift the ban entirely - while editing the ban admin-note to something more appropriate - so long as you understand that this behavior isn't what we want out of our players, and that you'll be more conscious of that going forward.

[DinduStuffin2]

so long as you understand that this behavior isn't what we want out of our players

Peanut post, but is it really? And do you get to decide that unilaterally? It was silly, and it happened once. If it got run into the ground(which it probably would), then it would be a lot less acceptable. In a game where we project IRL racism onto cartoon lizards did doing this copy pasta 1 time really leap over a line in the sand? The whole way this ban reason comes off is from some place of moral superiority in one of the least serious games in existence, it's an autism simulator.

Actually this is a good point. I understand there are some things that are too far, ie rape, or some other shit, but I see this in the same realm as extreme racism, which seems to be fine on this server. It's outlandish and really degenerate, but with some of the players here I'd argue it fits right in. To be frank, some people's gimmicks can be really, really fucking weird. I don't see any uproar over clowns with names like "Stinky Penis," people just kick his ass when they see him. No one gave a shit when I ran around as Cornholio and rambled about buttholes, toilet paper, and the titicaca river. I'd argue a guy talking about his asshole for 30 minutes straight is pretty fucking weird but I didn't even get a single PM about it. I've emoted michael jackson impressions with the groin lift, and made lots of cock, mom, and dad jokes, with no disapproval from the admins at any point.

The point I'm trying to make with this is that there's a lot of things both I, and other players have done on the server and have seen no backlash against from the administration, yet something like this, which granted has a larger impact due to the spam I wasn't aware of, and the law stating thing but ultimately to me falls in the same vein gets such a huge, instantaneous backlash from an admin, it makes me confused where the line is drawn. Yeah, you can just easily go "don't do sexual shit" but then what does that mean exactly? Can I not call people gay since that equates to their sexuality? Can I not say "I'm gonna put my foot up your ass, shitnuts?" What about dick jokes, can I make visual and verbal gags relating to dicksize, or sex with someone's mother anymore?

I'm not trying to be the guy who's like "if I can't be lewd then what rights DO I have" but I am trying to figure out where the line is because I'm genuinely so fucking confused. Other weird shit is fine, but only if it's not sexual. It's not like I fucking vored anyone.

[imblyings]

If i had to take a guess its admins fumbling around for a reason to perma the guy who thinks spamming meme laws is a good idea, because this is typical behaviour of people we dont want. So they involve rule 8, which is a great excuse to remove someone, on something that is obnoxious but only the most puritan of weirdos who've never been on the internet before would find actually sexually creepy.

My point is this, someone could unban you and say you didn't break rule 8 but then just perma you and no one would lift a finger to help you.

[DinduStuffin2]

In fairness though my intent was never to spam. I had no idea the AI was spammed with every single law plus the new one when I was doing it, I thought it just said "new law added" with the number and law itself.

[oranges]

If i had to take a guess its admins fumbling around for a reason to perma the guy who thinks spamming meme laws is a good idea, because this is typical behaviour of people we dont want. So they involve rule 8, which is a great excuse to remove someone, on something that is obnoxious but only the most puritan of weirdos who've never been on the internet before would find actually sexually creepy.

My point is this, someone could unban you and say you didn't break rule 8 but then just perma you and no one would lift a finger to help you.

This is completely wrong and you should know better

This guy has done absolutely nothing worthy of a permaban and I would still defend them under a rule 1 or 0 ban too

[imblyings]

You're right I'll pretend I just posted something about rule 8 being involved being silly.

[Nervere]

Ban has been lifted. I definitely jumped the gun here for someone who has has no prior relevant history, but the point remains to keep the borderline creepy stuff to yourself.

[Armhulen]

resolved