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[Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:32 am
by Asher
Byond account and character name: Doxdd/Asher Clarke

Banning admin: Doctorpork

Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server ban.

Ban reason and length: Perma - "You are a horrible player and are absolutely awful to deal with in ahelps, which would be less of an issue if you didn't constantly demand attention, either yourself or through your actions. Goodbye."

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 5/23/18, 03:36:02 GMT

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil

For context I was unbanned after a discussion with Doctorpork, followed by the unban being reprimanded, due to a misunderstanding between Doctorpork and the head admins. I didn't make this a ban appeal towards that, since I felt it was more of a fluff ban to replace the prior one. For context, here is the information on that ban as well, should the logs need it:

Banning admin: Subject217

Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server

Ban reason and length: Permanent - "Sorry, but you were unbanned in error, and we need you to make an appeal on the forums first. Very sorry this happened."

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 7/1/18 02:00:49 GMT

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil

Your side of the story: Essentially, I got admin PM'd over being too aggressive in the game, and told that a lot of people were complaining, and even alluding to breaking the rules in retaliation to it. This lead to an argument with the staff through Admin PM's, which then moved over to Citrusgender. Originally talking with Doctorpork, I retained a cynical, as well as distasteful attitude. I'm not dismissing that, and while it's how I act most of the time, it wasn't the right tone in the situation. Because of this, the tone escalated, which lead to the original transfer from Doctorpork to Citrusgender. I don't entirely agree with this switch, because I felt all Citrusgender did was prod at me to listen to them, and when I finally accepted that I should actually listen to what they were saying, they just slapped me on the wrist and said that they'd recommend a little less abrasive behavior in the future. After that, because I felt the whole string of DM's was a waste of time, I jokingly ahelped a wizard because they were murderboning, which didn't really lead anywhere, and a few minutes later, I was DM'd with a "Hey there! got a second?" Which given the situation, made the intent clear that they planned on issuing a ban, so I replied with a link to a discord image, joking about a few of the admin PM's from prior. Afterwards they issued the ban.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Personally, I feel that, for starters, a permanent ban is a bit excessive, and that the ban reason isn't the most mature either. I'm not justifying my attitude towards the situation, and that was derived more towards my frustration towards the situation, primarily from the fact that I was an apparent exception to the rules, and that specifically because of a mix of my reputation, actions, and attitude around the game, even though they didn't break the rules, was something that was needed to be dealt with in Admin PM's. I've thought about my own actions on my end, as well as what I could do better, and while I'm not saying I'm going to be a reborn person if I came back, I don't plan on being as aggressive, particularly in Admin PM's, as well as OOC chat. In my view, I don't entirely approve of the actions made on behalf of the staff in accordance with this ban, although I want to make it clear, that I wasn't in the right either in my own. Yeah, I like TG, and to me, it's better then most if not all other communities I've come across with my time on the game, while it's not a right to play on the server, it's an enjoyable experience none-the-less, and one I'd like to revisit.

[Deleted]

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:53 am
by christ110
PostThis post was deleted by Rustledjimm on Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:03 am.

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:58 am
by GuppyLaxx
image he was refering to, because I made it

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:58 am
by Asher
i do not condone this

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:07 am
by Rustledjimm
I'm afraid I am the one who caused the confusion I'm sorry. I had a talk with Pork regarding this ban and I agreed you should be given another chance after he requested so but I didn't make it clear that you still would need to post an appeal for the other headmins to see etc. This is a miscommunication where neither of us clarified this. He took my "we can give them another chance" as the go ahead to a straight unban without an appeal. Sorry you got caught up in this.

On Doctor Pork's recommendation I am willing to give you another chance but another headmin is free to dispute this.

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:32 am
by oranges
You know what strikes me as curious here, is that you were clearly posting that ahelp somewhere else, to vent or laugh at the admin in question, which is how guppylaxx was able to make that meme for you to reply not minutes later

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:49 am
by Asher
Was talking about it with Guppy at the time in DM's, sent it to him while chatting with the admin at hand as a means to laugh at them.

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:49 am
by Karp
I really dislike the precedents set by doxdd and usednapkin's appeals. There is obviously a certain level of professionalism and respect required both ways in any adminhelp, but when someone gets PMed and called a bad player it isn't too surprising when you see them getting snarky and upset over being effectively put on the admin team's shitlist. It was said in napkin's appeal but de-escalation and respecting that people can get hot-blooded in these scenarios would avoid the issues and be more beneficial overall to everyone.

Also noting that he got banned over joking around and ahelping about a wizard murderboning has to genuinely be one of the dumbest reasons to target someone on the shitlist for banning, and if this becomes standard practice being watched will effectively be a permanent ban on minor infraction/irritating the wrong person. I understand this may sound extreme but scenarios like this will eventually pop up again and again where an upset player who was warned gets irritated at an admin and makes a sarcastic/hostile remark towards them before eating a permaban for what is basically just "Upsetting the admin".

I''m also not advocating for allowing people to abuse admins but again, people in a scenario where adrenaline/emotions can run high leading to them making hostile or rude remarks after feeling targeted shouldn't be complete justification to permanently ban them outright. Even the most gentle person in the world can display rage and frustration if they feel severely mistreated or abused.

I'm sorry I kinda ranted here and I know that this is just a formality and he is being unbanned anyways but seriously he shouldn't have been banned in the first place and the fact that he initially got upset over being warned isn't surprising. I do hope in the future that being watched for poor behaviour doesn't turn into "Permaban the second you toe an arbitrary line that varies from admin to admin"?

that last part is kinda strawman-y so sorry

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:39 am
by oranges
I'm all for it, as long as it's a two way street

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:38 pm
by Doctor Pork
As long as he agrees to be more considerate of the other players and be more receptive when admins try and talk to him about his behavior I'd say we can give him another go.

Also Karp the ban actually had very little/nothing to do with the meme/joking about the wiz the meme was actually pretty decent, he ahelped the wiz during the discussion with the team and after we finished talking about what was going to happen I was going to issue a ban and he just sent it before the ban. There was quite a bit of lead up to this ban tbh.

If you want me to pull relevant logs I can but I don't want to unless I need to, and don't see any reason to drag this out so I'm gonna unban. Be good, have fun.

edit: formatting

Re: [Doctorpork] Doxdd - Appeal

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:50 pm
by Rustledjimm
resolved