[note appeal][arianya] Deitus - following borg laws

[Deitus]

Byond account and character name: Deitus
Banning admin: arianya
Ban type (What are you banned from?): n/a
Ban reason and length: n/a
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 10/20 5:38
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): sybil
Your side of the story: was given a law that "the shuttle cannot be called," and deconned the comms consoles due to this
Why you think you should be unbanned: deconning comms consoles is an entirely valid action considering the given law

[Arianya]

Full note:

Warned - As a borg with a "the shuttle cannot be called" law 4, went out of their way to pre-emptively deconstruct the comms consoles and destroy the boards. Advised this is rule 1 infringing and asked to be more benevolent in law interpretation.

No one at any point ordered you to deconstruct the consoles nor to destroy the boards.

While your actions weren't in contravention of your laws they still border on rule 1 by making it hellish for the crew, and with no indication this was the desire of any humans, even the law uploader.

Denied as it is neither factually incorrect nor (in my view) unfair to you in the eyes of another admin reading that note.

[Deitus]

greetings,
before closure i would like to point out the simple chain of logic that would stem from "the shuttle cannot be called" to "stop the crew's means of calling the shuttle," and your own admission that i did not disobey and indeed followed my laws correctly. thank you for your reply.

[NikNakFlak]

Doesn't deconstructing all the comms consoles auto call the shuttle??? And would then be violating his own law? Is deitus playing himself?

[Gouty]

I think the shuttle is only autocalled if there is no AI.

[somerandomguy]

If he didn't do this, the only ways to not break his law would be to turn off power or make sure him or the AI constantly had an eye on the consoles, because someone could walk in unannounced. Both of these alternatives are impractical, as the captain can turn power back on and watching a console for your whole round is boring.

[WarbossLincoln]

He acted in accordance with his laws. 100% valid.

and with no indication this was the desire of any humans

Nothing in Asimov says you have to care about the best interests of humans or what they want. You have to prevent harm and follow orders. If there's no harm to prevent and no specific orders you have no requirement to aid them at all. It's not even breaking Asimov to actively hinder humans as long as it's not harming them and they are not ordering you to stop whatever you're doing. Asimov restricts behavior, it doesn't allow behavior.

He interpreted that law to be an imperative, 'the shuttle cannot be allowed to be called', and not a definition 'the shuttle is not capable of being called'. His actions were completely justifiable by his law. It's not breaking server rule 1 when the law is fairly clear like that.

[ohnopigeons]

Doesn't deconstructing all the comms consoles auto call the shuttle??? And would then be violating his own law? Is deitus playing himself?

Autocall only occurs if there is no other possible way to call the shuttle. This includes an alive AI.

[zxaber]

Warboss is right. "Cannot" is ambiguous and can be interpreted as "must not be". As such, preventing the consoles to be used at all is the only reliable way to follow the law, and deconstructing the consoles is the easiest method. Circumstances depending, the Captain or RD should have access to the upload (as long as they don't tell the AI they're removing the shuttle law), or the crew can simply print new comm console boards. Finally, if the law wasn't above standard law 2, any human could simply order the shuttle called or even order the borg to bring the console boards back.

In any case, barring this being an ion law, it's standard for the law uploader being to blame for silicon actions, correct? So why is the borg player getting a note/ban?

Alternatively, this sounds like headmin ruling to ignore any law that sounds "dickish".

[lmwevil]

it's pretty standard for borgs to destroy the consoles if they have any related 'crew cannot leave' esque laws

[Nervere]

Naat and I are going to overrule Ari's decision on this one.
Deconstructing the communications console is a perfectly reasonable action given the law that he had. We also don't enforce Rule 1 so strictly on Asimov laws. Rule 1 tends to come into play when the interpretation of the law is obviously in bad faith, or is out of line with what the law is telling the silicon to do. When you get a law that says that the shuttle cannot be called, removing the crews means of calling the shuttle through deconstructing the consoles/destroying the boards is an acceptable response.
I have removed this note, thanks for appealing.