Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Appeals which have been closed.
Locked
User avatar
tinodrima7020
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:00 am
Byond Username: TinoDrima7020

Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by tinodrima7020 » #471775

Byond account and character name: Vespa/TinoDrima7020
Noting Admin: OptimumTact
Note: "Stole the roboticists job equipment from their area as a borg and missed (possibly didn't see due to text spam) the roboticst telling them to stop. When questioned, responded that they blieved the roboticist to be incompetent and wanted others to do the work. Requested that they avoid taking job material from departments in the future as a borg."
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Side of the story: I was noted for coming close to breaking rule 1, being a dick, apparently because I had decided to grab a brain that I had removed, the mmi, and the shell, all next to each other waiting to be borged, and put it in a locker in order for it to be borged. My reason being is that the roboticist was inattentive or a brainlet and that having more Asimov borgs is a benefit to the crew, not to mention the player in question was waiting about 10~ mins to be borged (waiting out robo + surgery + sitting on the ground as a brain with finished parts right next to it). Instead of borging the brain, the roboticist decided to hit a reinforced window with a crowbar for a while which would've taken 10 seconds at most in four clicks)

Vespa queries, "So are you going to put the brain in the borg or?"
*Roboticist continues hitting the window*
Vespa states, "Yikes"

*I proceed to grab a locker and drag the brain and finished shell into a locker*

During this time the roboticist apparently told me to "Wait" and said "Let me", but my attention was directed at my 2D sprites and I wasn't really paying attention to anything else since the cap was HIGH POWER asking for his wheelchair, and the A.I. was also high power, as well as someone writing a paragraph in OOC so I missed it.

[HIGH POWER] [Common] says, "MIME"

[HIGH POWER][Common] says, "GIVE ME BACK MY WHEELCHAIR"

[HIGH POWER] [Common] states, "Why do you have a crate full of syndicate supplies"

(Roboticist) Alexios Komnenos says, "Wait"

Trigger points at Vespa.

Alexios Komnenos says, "Let me"

(Paragraph of OOC) OOC: OrdoM: Bullying is an important part of life and the game, insofar that at non-fatal levels it teaches mental resilience and the fact that not all people are nice. Think of it like building callouses for your spaceman hands. With which you may then choke the clown.

[HIGH POWER] [Common] states, "Why can i suddenly see into maint"

*At this point I'm already at the medbay lobby and see Hanna and point at her to get her attention then a borg tells me that the roboticist said wait, but at this point Hanna is already in possession of the locker, brain, mmi, and shell*
[Common] asks, "Why do you not AI?"
Robotic Talk, TriGGer states, "he said wait"
[Common] Alexios Komnenos says, "Borg wtf"
[Common] , "How odd AI"
Robotic Talk, TriGGer states, "youre breaking law 2"
Hanna Tireman says, "Oh no"
Hanna Tireman sticks brain into the Man-Machine Interface.
The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.
Notes that contain admin opinions that unfairly paint the player in a bad light are one example.
Emphasis on the phrase "unfairly". If you're repeatedly a shitter and an admin calls you a shitter in a note just take the hint and improve on not being a shitter
Admin PM from-Optimumtact: You didn't break any rules, which is why you're not banned, you did however come close to rule 1, being a dick and you also didn't roleplay your borg/silicon laws to my satisfaction.
So basically I was noted because I missed two lines of text from high powered comms, a paragraph of OOC and "not rping to their satisfaction"(????). Furthermore, rule 1 was cited, being a dick, when I was actively trying to bring a player back into the round as soon as possible rather than have their brain sit on the floor while the chimp roboticist ooga booga'd a reinforced window with a crowbar.
User avatar
gum disease
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:14 pm
Byond Username: GUM DISEASE
Location: England

Re: Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by gum disease » #471826

I was the player waiting to be borged, so hopefully me posting here is permissible/not peanut-posting.

Robotics in general was quite inattentive/slow to the point where I, as an assistant looking to be borged, ended up taking over and operated on Vespa/popped their brain into an MMI myself before asking for Vespa to borg me. My brain was sitting in robo while the roboticist who was awake was actively trying to break a reinforced window with a crowbar to make spears for some reason? Vespa prompted him to borg me, (which would've taken 2 seconds as all the parts needed were ready and the shell was assembled) and was ignored, so they took it upon themselves to get me back into the round. Vespa ended up taking my brain, an MMI and a completed borg shell out of robo in a locker and Hanna was kind enough to borg me.

I was borged very quickly after being taken out of robotics. Vespa didn't break any laws because the roboticist's command was incredibly vague and could've referred to anything or anyone. He did not say "borg/Vespa, wait" or "borg/Vespa, let me borg Jasmine", and I'm pretty sure we were already out of robotics/mech bay when this was said. Furthermore, a vague comment like that is very easily overlooked, especially when chat is moving quite quickly/people will high-volume on are talking over comms. I think it's unfair to note Vespa for this because they were trying to be kind and get me back into the round ASAP. Honestly, I'd argue that it's more of a rule 1 violation to ignore your job as a robo and let someone sit dead on the floor as a brain until you feel like helping them (I want to note that neither roboticist was an antagonist, so I have no idea why the one who belatedly prompted Vespa to wait was making spears in the first place) than it is for a borg to intervene and get someone else to help.

Coming close to breaking rule 1 (which I think is quite questionable here) is not the same as breaking rule 1, and I'm sorry oranges but your satisfaction regarding how Vespa RP'd is subjective. They asked the robo to borg me instead of immediately just taking me and the parts out of robo. Upon being ignored, they decided to take the initiative and help me actually be able to play the game instead of just idling on the ground as a brain, unable to speak or try to grab their attention myself. IMO, that's sufficient RP and I was thankful that I was offered help because it's not uncommon for some roboticists to leave brains sitting around forever/forget that they need to borg someone until you ahelp.
User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED

Re: Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by oranges » #471864

Coming close to breaking rule 1 (which I think is quite questionable here) is not the same as breaking rule 1
Correct, which is why they're not banned and just noted.

I won't be adjusting this note, it's materially correct and explains exactly what happened and what was requested of you in the future. headadmins are free to intervene if they feel necessary.
User avatar
tinodrima7020
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:00 am
Byond Username: TinoDrima7020

Re: Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by tinodrima7020 » #472335

During these ahelps I was told to ahelp people if they are not doing their jobs so I decided to see how much this held up.
Spoiler:
PM to-Admins: Roboticists are ignoring me when I am asking to be reset and asking them to print lavaproof tracks so that I may retrieve the A.I. and corpses from lavaland. When one of them finally answered they said "I want to do my own shit" and the other roboticist is continually ignoring me in order to make their durand.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: yes and?

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: How is this an admin issue?

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Rule 1. Seems pretty dickish to ignore basic duties as a role you sign up for in order to do whatever you want

- AdminHelp marked as IC issue! -
Losing is part of the game!
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Your ticket has been resolved by an admin. The Adminhelp verb will be returned to you shortly


PM to-Admins: Is it ahelpable if someone refuses to do their basic functions and instead chooses to "do their own shit" and continually ignore you?
-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-Coiax: It depends on who's "ignoring their functions". Is it a borg disobeying laws?

Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: No it's a roboticist
- AdminHelp marked as IC issue! -
Losing is part of the game!
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Your ticket has been resolved by an admin. The Adminhelp verb will be returned to you shortly.
PM to-Admins: So explain to me why I was told to ahelp people that don't do their job functions if admins are going to mark it as an ic issue?

- AdminHelp marked as IC issue! -
Losing is part of the game!
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Your ticket has been resolved by an admin. The Adminhelp verb will be returned to you shortly.
???????????????????????????????????
-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: It's not against the rules to not do your job.

Click on the administrator's name to reply.

-- Administrator private message --

Admin PM from-DaxYeen: We're not gonna keep telling you

Click on the administrator's name to reply.
Why am I being told to do something when it doesn't amount to shit because there is zero consistency between admins. Would me printing a reset board and lavaproof tracks and then bringing it to someone else be considered "stealing materials" from robotics and open me up to being noted/banned for that too?
User avatar
Kingtrin
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:29 am
Byond Username: Kingtrin

Re: Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by Kingtrin » #472361

Telling someone you are going to borg them, or insinuating it through actions (debraining, preparing a shell) and then proceeding not to borg them is essentially the same as forcing someone out of the round for no cause. We have rules against this kind of garbage. This isn't an issue of the roboticist doing their job so much as they "killed" a player and are refusing to allow them back into the round. Imagine if you killed someone with dubious IC reasons, and then instead of cloning them your excuse is you were more interested in making a spear. What is materially different between these two situations? A player is forced out by a non-antagonist, has their brain sitting on the ground where few people can actually access it, and when someone decides to help them they get punished.

Great precedent you are setting here. You are essentially opening up a pathway for people to metagrudge via robotics. If I saw someone entering robotics to be borged I now can leave them on the ground after debraining with, apparently, no obligation to get them back into the round.

How you cannot see the obvious rule 1 implications this has, and how the borg in question was the exact opposite of a dick, is beyond me.
Booktower
In-Game Admin
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:44 pm
Byond Username: Booktower

Re: Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by Booktower » #472403

>PM to-Admins: So explain to me why I was told to ahelp people that don't do their job functions if admins are going to mark it as an ic issue?

We're not omniscient, and we don't check for new notes/bans every day. And even if we did that, the note does not mention anything related to ahelping peoples job functions. When seeing your ticket coiax likely had no idea where you are taking that from. As such, he can't really answer it.
User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED

Re: Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by oranges » #472411

none of this is relevant to this appeal, take it to the policy threads.

if you have an issue with my ruling make an admin complaint.
User avatar
Nervere
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:38 am
Byond Username: Nervere
Github Username: nervere

Re: Optimumtact: Note Appeal TinoDrima7020/Vespa

Post by Nervere » #474048

We've decided to remove this note. Tinodrima appears to have been acting with good intentions when they took the MMI out of robotics, and it is unreasonable to note them for the roboticist's order that was very likely simply missed by the cyborg in question. What they did was hardly a rule 1 violation, and justifying the note with "you also didn't roleplay your borg/silicon laws to my satisfaction" does little to make it more legitimate.
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users