[Elyina] Isy232 - Killed the AI For Starting A Manhunt On Me

[Isy232]

Byond account and character name: Asher Donkin

Banning admin: Elyina

Ban type (What are you banned from?): All Servers I believe.

Ban reason and length: "Bombed the AI core because the Ai revealed the location of his secret recall station. The AI did not die and he repaired it afterwards, but you have a rather extensive history as of late, and are beyond the point where you can get off with warning for this kind of thing. Please reconsider your playstyle.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2019-02-26 03:24:10 => 2019-02-26 03:24:10

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil Bagil

Your side of the story: During this round, I was playing as research director and had done toxins fairly early into the round. Then we got a message from centcom saying that if we gave them 3 rainbow knives they would give us a xenomorph egg. So I went into xenobiology and attempted to help out. Later on the shuttle was called and recalled a few times, sometimes for the reason "Law 2 request" or "We are leaving now". Someone was recalling, so the AI announced the name and location of the person recalling. I heard over comms that the person was lynched, but I can't be sure if it was true. The shuttle was called again and we were close to getting our rainbow knives, so I setup a communications console in the R&D server room and renamed the room with a cerulean slime extract. A cyborg found the recall room first, so I tried to make a law 2 request for it to forget it ever saw me or the recall station while never going back there.

Then a minute or so later the AI makes an announcement that I, the RD was recalling the shuttle and that the console was in the R&D sever room. As you can expect, they lynchers soon turned up, but I was in my office so when they tried to break in I used a hand tele to escape. I then ran to toxins, used the gasses I had left to make a bomb and delivered it to the AI core. I then carded and repaired the AI of the damage it took with the console in my office (they lynchers had left at this point) and offered to put it inside of a new core if it wanted. The AI said no to my offer since the shuttle was ETA in about a minute and just asked for me to bring it on to the shuttle, which I did. The only other thing I harmed with the bomb was a cyborg, which I repaired and telecoms, which I would have repaired if the shuttle was not about to arrive.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I would like to quickly mention that this round was the last I played that night and I was banned after I had left the server with no chance to explain myself.

I think I should be unbanned because I think what I did was justified under the escalation policy found at: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Escalation

You may instigate conflict with another player within reason (you can't completely destroy their department, kill them unprovoked, or otherwise take them out of the round for long periods of time).

The AI set a lynch mob on me, so I responded with violence. I didn't take them out of the round for a long period of time or kill them unprovoked. I wouldn't consider the AI satellite a department because it only serves the purposes of housing and defending the AI and telecoms. I think what I did is justified under escalation policy because I basically killed them, cloned them and then offered to return some of their important items, however I never got the chance to return them because the shuttle arrived.

I would also like to mention that I do not see how my playstyle is anything bad. I almost always work in the science department and complete the tasks inside of it. I do not use it's powers to only my own benefit, I have often taught others how to do toxins because the guide on the wiki is extremely outdated. I do have several admin notes relating to invalid bombings, such as one time I pranked the HoP with a fake bomb, but when I signaled the fake bomb I detonated a real bomb I left in toxins. The explosion didn't kill anyone thankfully. Another time I bombed a shuttle when I died with a bomb linked to a health sensor on the shuttle, causing it to detonate. That health sensor bomb only killed 1 other person, as antags were murderboning, my reason for having a suicide bomb in the first place.

[MGP]

I was the AI. I talked to Elyina like twenty minutes after the ban was placed and (s)he removed it. Also this was on Bagil not Sybil. Give thanks to your GOD. Oh looks like they ban valided you anyway nevermind.

[elyina]

I was the AI. I talked to Elyina like twenty minutes after the ban was placed and (s)he removed it. Also this was on Bagil not Sybil. Give thanks to your GOD.

I did remove it initially, but after looking at his history again I didn't feel like I could leave it at just a warning in good conscience. He's had several incidents of misusing bombs.

First thing I'll address is that escalation policy wouldn't cover you here. The instigator is actually you, for recalling the shuttle for a selfish reason when you were already aware that the crew largely desired to have the shuttle come and end the round. The AI cannot be considered in violation of law 1 just for telling the crew that you are recalling. That would be in the realm "hypothetical" future harm that the AI is typically not held accountable for. I also feel it's somewhat disingenuous to state the AI "started a manhunt" against you. It would make sense to use that phrasing if what the AI was saying wasn't true or you did nothing wrong, but that isn't the case. You brought the manhunt upon yourself with your own actions. You've got no one to blame but yourself for that.

Restoring the AI is definitely a mitigating factor and I appreciate that you did it, but you have been talked to by admins so many times now about misuse of bombs that it really isn't enough to salvage this. I want to make something clear to you: As a non-antag, bombs are ONLY for emergency use, and situations where there is definitely not a grey area Your first solution to every little problem should not be to throw a bomb at it. As you have failed to understand this concept after multiple previous bans for bad bombings, this ban also included a 2 week job ban from RD and scientist jobs.

I will not be accepting this appeal, and I hope this ban helps you understand that there are serious consequences for misusing bombs as a non-antag.

[Isy232]

First thing I'll address is that escalation policy wouldn't cover you here. The instigator is actually you

Even if I was the instigator, I instigated with reason, ending in them loosing the fight and taking non lethal damage, which I healed and then offered to return their necessary possessions, in this case make them a new core. I would also like to add that the AI said that me, the RD, was recalling. I found that to be unnecessary, they could have simply called out the location of the console and had the crew dissemble it instead of sending a lynch mob after me.

There was nothing wrong with the station and the round was not excessively long, I don't even understand why the shuttle was being called anyways other than people just wanting a chance to be antagonist or just bored with the round, yet I am valid and an instigator for recalling the shuttle.

As a non-antag, bombs are ONLY for emergency use, and situations where there is definitely not a grey area

I have never heard of this before, is there some ruling I am missing?

I was using a bomb as I would any other weapon. I used a bomb carefully, in a location that would not harm players other than my target or damage an important part of the station irreparably. The AI satellite is so heavily defended I do not see any other way to damage the AI effectively.

Overall, I don't understand what was such a big issue, I did very little harm at all with the bomb. The AI satellite is useless except for protecting the AI and telecoms is easily fixable. I never killed anyone and I repaired the AI that I did damage and then offered them a new core. I still don't see how I misused a bomb enough for a ban to be necessary.

[Isy232]

That would be in the realm "hypothetical" future harm that the AI is typically not held accountable for. I also feel it's somewhat disingenuous to state the AI "started a manhunt" against you. It would make sense to use that phrasing if what the AI was saying wasn't true or you did nothing wrong, but that isn't the case. You brought the manhunt upon yourself with your own actions. You've got no one to blame but yourself for that.

I think it is fair to say that the AI started a manhunt on me because a minute after the AI made the announcement, some guy with a shotgun came over to my office and started blasting the window. The AI could have not mentioned my name, but only the location of the console and then I wouldn't have had someone blasting my window. I also don't think that recalling the shuttle with little IC reason to call it in the first place is something wrong.

That being said, I do not think the AI calling out my location is enough for it to be valid for me to remove it from the round, but I would say that it started a manhunt on me where I would likely be harmed if caught.

I instigated a fight against the AI for reason, ending with the AI loosing its satellite but then being repaired and offered a new core. I do not see why this isn't okay under escalation policy, the AI never even died.