[Gigapuddi420] Yana Mistral - Poor ban reasons.

[Canela]

Post Content:
Byond account and character name: Glyn, Yana Mistral
Banning admin: Gigapuddi420
Ban type (What are you banned from?): temp server ban
Ban reason and length: Reason: As non-antagonist miner during nuclear operatives, missed the shuttle so he decided to kill everyone around him knocking two people into critical. When asked why they explained that the round was basically over and it's okay to kill people. Despite numerous attempts to explain you can only grief when the round ACTUALLY ends, he continued to argue it's ok for him to do so and it's roleplay for him to do so. I was going to make this one day but your refusal to understand the basic concept here is terrible. Read our rules again. Don't kill people for no reason untul the round is over.
This ban is temporary, it will be removed in 2 days. The round ID is 106749.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 6pm GMT+2
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Terry
Your side of the story: I feel that Gigapuddi either has a personal issue with me and never listens. Essentially what happened here is I explained that 1) the reason for me to attack two people as a shaft miner was that the shuttle had left the station and pretty much everyone who is abandoned on the station is STRANDED and is effectively OUT of the game since they can't build an escape pod or leave the station by any means. Additionally, I tried to explain that this is also an IC issue since as a shaft miner I've been working my ass off on the lavaland station and I just got that the shuttle came and got immediately launched because of some arsehole. So after busting my ass to mine for shit so people can build and evolve on the station I got stranded.
Additionally, Gigapuddi stated that I killed two people which is incorrect, I did attack two people but I didn't kill them.
Back to my original claim that "Gigapuddi either has a personal issue with me and never listens" - if you check my admin remarks you will see that 50% of them or more are solely from him for the most irrelevant or minor things such as "said owo" icly. As an example, I tried to explain to him that basically it's not only an IC issue but also the round was effectively over for people who were left on the station - so he argued that this is not correct. But isn't it? So I try to explain my motives and he just says on discord he doesn't care and just blocked me.
Often when I put up ahelps I get told by admins "it's an IC issue, deal with it" but when I attack someone for an IC issue and something that makes perfect sense oocly I get told "this is against the rules, bammed".

I tried to speak with him on Discord and explain my point but I just got blocked. And yes, while you will say "Admins don't deal with issues via Discord", I still wanted to get my point across.




Why you think you should be unbanned:
The reason for the ban is incorrect. 1) I haven't killed anyone, I just fought with people. 2) The admin didn't listen to what I had to say and effectively went with the "I am the admin, I'm right, you're wrong, whatever I say goes" route. And 3) Even if he was correct, I don't see why this isn't ruled as an IC issue but often when I get attacked, killed or permabrigged it's always an "IC issue" and admins waive my ahelps and solve the tickets.
Not to mention that as he said "The time is 1 day but you aren't listening to me, so now you get a 2 day ban" when he initially wanted me to explain to him what happened but then he just didn't seem to care and just went with banning me either way. If he doesn't care, why ask me in the first place?

EDIT: he asks me "why did you do this" so I explain why and my reasoning behind it and the admin goes "OH I WAS GOING TO BAN YOU FOR JUST ONE DAY BUT SINCE YOU TOLD ME YOUR REASONING BEHIND IT AS I ASKED YOU TO, NOW YOU GET TWO DAYS INSTEAD."

[Dax Dupont]

Giga is one of most active admins on terry so it's normal you encounter them more than most others.

That said admins can't resolve admin stuff in discord PMs.
See:

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Discord_Rules
Good job linking pictures of your discord conversation where the admin is following the rules and you're not.

There's no reason to harass an admin in discord PMs when they told you they don't want to and CAN'T deal with it in discord PMs.

Also it doesn't matter where you are, you can't kill for no real reason(my character is mad at people/insane is not a valid defense) while the round is still ongoing, stranded or not.

[bobbahbrown]

The rules are fairly clear in this instance. From rule 1 precedents...

1. Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 ban.
-snip-
3. Rules still apply until the emergency escape shuttle has reached Centcom and the round-end antagonist report has appeared. When the shuttle has reached Centcom, players are free to act as per lone antagonists, detailed in Rule 4. Non-antagonist grief upon the shuttle, from spamming flashbangs for no reason to spraying space lube, can be met with instant 5 (five) minute bans or more.

Following this, you say:

...it's not only an IC issue but also the round was effectively over for people who were left on the station - so he argued that this is not correct. But isn't it?

In the context of the rules this is not correct.

...he just didn't seem to care and just went with banning me either way. If he doesn't care, why ask me in the first place?...

In your ban reason it is clearly stated that you refused to acknowledge/understand the rule above, and the extra time was provided for you to reflect on the rules.

...When asked why they explained that the round was basically over and it's okay to kill people. Despite numerous attempts to explain you can only grief when the round ACTUALLY ends, he continued to argue it's ok for him to do so and it's roleplay for him to do so. I was going to make this one day but your refusal to understand the basic concept here is terrible. Read our rules again. Don't kill people for no reason untul the round is over.

[Canela]

Giga is one of most active admins on terry so it's normal you encounter them more than most others.

That said admins can't resolve admin stuff in discord PMs.
See:

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Discord_Rules
Good job linking pictures of your discord conversation where the admin is following the rules and you're not.

There's no reason to harass an admin in discord PMs when they told you they don't want to and CAN'T deal with it in discord PMs.

Also it doesn't matter where you are, you can't kill for no real reason(my character is mad at people/insane is not a valid defense) while the round is still ongoing, stranded or not.

How am I supposed to reach the admin if I 'm banned in-game? :thinking:
How is it harassment?

In your ban reason it is clearly stated that you refused to acknowledge/understand the rule above, and the extra time was provided for you to reflect on the rules.

...When asked why they explained that the round was basically over and it's okay to kill people. Despite numerous attempts to explain you can only grief when the round ACTUALLY ends, he continued to argue it's ok for him to do so and it's roleplay for him to do so. I was going to make this one day but your refusal to understand the basic concept here is terrible. Read our rules again. Don't kill people for no reason untul the round is over.

I said I understood what he's saying but I don't agree with it. How is that not acknowledging?

[bobbahbrown]

I said I understood what he's saying but I don't agree with it. How is that not acknowledging?

Just to clarify:

In your ban reason it is clearly stated that you refused to acknowledge/understand the rule above, and the extra time was provided for you to reflect on the rules.

Although you may not understand or may not agree with the rules, this is no reason or exception as to why you shouldn't be punished for breaking them.

[Dax Dupont]

It's harassment by continuing to arguing while they said they didn't want to deal with it.

Also you don't reach the admin. You ban appeal, though we generally tolerate forum PMs though to headmins and what not.

Unless a very obvious mistake was made like banning the wrong ckey accidentally, you will have to go through the appeals process.

[Gigapuddi420]

Alright, sure, you knocked people into critical with the clear intent of killing as many people as possible, at first I wondered if you had some conflict with these people so I asked you what you were doing. You explained you were stranded and were acting like it's the end of the round. I made a point of telling you that the round isn't over until the end of round report pops up and then you went out of your way to argue this simple rule. The fact you are stranded doesn't mean you get to murder everyone around you, no, claiming you are really mad about being stranded isn't a suitable roleplaying reason to attack random people around you with the intent to kill. No, two minutes until the round actually ends isn't a reason to treat it as if it's the end of the round. At first I was just going to ban you a day for the guy you tried to kill for no reasonable reason, you went on to make it clear you didn't understand why your actions were wrong and I decided a extra day would give you more time to think about it.

How I've ruled against you previously isn't really relevant in this appeal. This is about what you did this round and how it broke our rules, however you should keep in mind policy is clear about emoticons in chat like 'owo' and I've noted plenty of people for that and even more minor reasons like 'lol, wtf, lmao, it's revs' and so on. Rules are rules and where we see them broken we try to enforce them. I don't really have the time to have a personal issue with you, often I don't even realize who someone actually is until the ckey comes up and often I won't even recognize the ckey. Rules seem pretty clear on this one and I've not seen any compelling argument to reduce or remove this ban. Wait for the end of round report to pop up and the chat to tell you 'THE ROUND HAS ENDED' before trying to kill everyone with impunity.

I'll hold out a little more before completely denying this appeal. The thread will remain open for any more argument to be brought forth and if denied it's possible the headmins might decide to overrule before closing.

[Canela]

It's harassment by continuing to arguing while they said they didn't want to deal with it.

Also you don't reach the admin. You ban appeal, though we generally tolerate forum PMs though to headmins and what not.

Unless a very obvious mistake was made like banning the wrong ckey accidentally, you will have to go through the appeals process.

How is it right for someone to ban someone without wanting to deal with the case?
Why is gigapuddi even an admin if he doesn't have the capacity or the patience? "I don't want to deal with it" is the last thing an admin should say. Being an admin is voluntary work and he's not getting paid to do it, therefore unless you're using it as a status symbol to say "hey guys I'm an admin here", I don't see a valid reason as to why he would be in an admin capacity if he doesn't want to deal with every aspect of the admin duty. And it doesn't matter if you agree or not with my argument - why sign up as an admin if you don't want the responsibilities of one?

I firmly believe it's kind of a dick move to increase the ban by another day while I'm clearly complying with the admin. It is even more frustrating for me as I'm visiting family for the easter holidays and I have a crappy family computer which can run SS13 but not much more than that and Terry is the only European server I can play on.

If you want to ban me, then fine. But don't double the ban time just because you have a personal grudge with me is all I'm asking.

On a separate note, when are you going to start issuing (occupation) bans to captains who launch shuttles early when there is no immediate threat to the station?

[Canela]

Alright, sure, you knocked people into critical with the clear intent of killing as many people as possible, at first I wondered if you had some conflict with these people so I asked you what you were doing. You explained you were stranded and were acting like it's the end of the round. I made a point of telling you that the round isn't over until the end of round report pops up and then you went out of your way to argue this simple rule. The fact you are stranded doesn't mean you get to murder everyone around you, no, claiming you are really mad about being stranded isn't a suitable roleplaying reason to attack random people around you with the intent to kill. No, two minutes until the round actually ends isn't a reason to treat it as if it's the end of the round. At first I was just going to ban you a day for the guy you tried to kill for no reasonable reason, you went on to make it clear you didn't understand why your actions were wrong and I decided a extra day would give you more time to think about it.

How I've ruled against you previously isn't really relevant in this appeal. This is about what you did this round and how it broke our rules, however you should keep in mind policy is clear about emoticons in chat like 'owo' and I've noted plenty of people for that and even more minor reasons like 'lol, wtf, lmao, it's revs' and so on. Rules are rules and where we see them broken we try to enforce them. I don't really have the time to have a personal issue with you, often I don't even realize who someone actually is until the ckey comes up and often I won't even recognize the ckey. Rules seem pretty clear on this one and I've not seen any compelling argument to reduce or remove this ban. Wait for the end of round report to pop up and the chat to tell you 'THE ROUND HAS ENDED' before trying to kill everyone with impunity.

I'll hold out a little more before completely denying this appeal. The thread will remain open for any more argument to be brought forth and if denied it's possible the headmins might decide to overrule before closing.

I don't see how you get to deny an appeal request when you're actively involved in this scenario.
I'm strongly requesting Gigapuddi's post to be ignored. If someone else wants to shorten the ban to one day as initially intended or fully deny the appeal request, then so be it, but you shouldn't be the one who does it as you're directly involved in this appeal request.

[Gigapuddi420]

You don't understand the appeal process. When players appeal their bans, they are appealing to the banning admin. If the banning admin denies the appeal (either because you couldn't convince them or because you feel they didn't handle your ban properly and are sticking by it) the headmins can overrule the banning admin. Other admins are basically the same as players here and are only providing precedent and rules to aid in the appeal process. Only myself or a headmin can uphold your appeal.

How is it right for someone to ban someone without wanting to deal with the case?
Why is gigapuddi even an admin if he doesn't have the capacity or the patience? "I don't want to deal with it" is the last thing an admin should say.

Firstly they were clearly talking about how a admin shouldn't have to deal with admin stuff in their discord PMs, as that's what the two of you were talking about. Secondly, while I was dealing with you I had six other tickets open yet I took all that time to deal with you. I could have just looked at what you were doing, decided it was against the rules and banned you after quickly explaining why I was doing so. Instead I took the time to argue with you and throughout you showed no sign of understanding the ruling. 2 days seems pretty reasonable for the two guys you tried to kill before I started messaging you, especially once it became clear they had done nothing to you.

[Canela]

Firstly they were clearly talking about how a admin shouldn't have to deal with admin stuff in their discord PMs, as that's what the two of you were talking about. Secondly, while I was dealing with you I had six other tickets open yet I took all that time to deal with you. I could have just looked at what you were doing, decided it was against the rules and banned you after quickly explaining why I was doing so. Instead I took the time to argue with you and throughout you showed no sign of understanding the ruling. 2 days seems pretty reasonable for the two guys you tried to kill before I started messaging you, especially once it became clear they had done nothing to you.

Why are you trying to skew what I said? I told you that I understood what you were telling me, but I don't agree with the way you presented it - you stated it as an opinion, never linked me to the server rules and said "Here's where you're wrong, please read rule #7" for example and then asked me again to confirm if I understood, you instead went with a ban because you felt that I'm arguing with you where I was trying to understand. From my perspective you were telling me "You can't kill people before the round ends because it's wrong" but never quoted any rules or linked me to such.

That being said I understand now because I did the extra legwork that you didn't want to bother with and actually read the rules and saw where I was wrong.
Still doesn't mean that I agree with having my ban length doubled because you handled the situation poorly and decided to punish me with one extra day of ban time.

PSPS: Also please don't take it as a "fuck the rules" case, it's not like I play with the rules opened on a second screen so I can cross-reference if what I'm about to do is against the rules. It was a spur of the moment thing and I got extremely frustrated because of an incompetent captain/crew who launched a shuttle early without giving people more time to evac. It won't repeat in the future.

[Dax Dupont]

I don't see how you get to deny an appeal request when you're actively involved in this scenario.
I'm strongly requesting Gigapuddi's post to be ignored. If someone else wants to shorten the ban to one day as initially intended or fully deny the appeal request, then so be it, but you shouldn't be the one who does it as you're directly involved in this appeal request.

Admins always generally approve or deny their appeals. The headmins may wish to override, do not comment or comment about why the person is wrong.

Also they've dealt with you ingame. That's where it happens and ends.

They are not obligated to talk to you in discord PMs, hell they're technically forbidden to handle admin stuff in PMs because of transparency. It's also easy to fake what's said in screenshots of discord, that's another reason.
Forum PMs are tracked and so are these public threads.

Admins are not required to warn you first about rule breaking, bans for first time offenses usually happen. That said you have a bunch of notes about stuff that violate rule 1, the don't be a dick rule.

[Canela]

That said you have a bunch of notes about stuff that violate rule 1, the don't be a dick rule.

Please quote these. Not to mention that in 90% of the time I play my roles to the best of my knowledge and try to be reasonable, in most cases if I'm a dick to someone it's entirely warranted. Not to mention that often people are dicks to me and admins always tell me "it's an IC issue" and immediately solve my ticket.

[Dax Dupont]

That said you have a bunch of notes about stuff that violate rule 1, the don't be a dick rule.

Please quote these. Not to mention that in 90% of the time I play my roles to the best of my knowledge and try to be reasonable, in most cases if I'm a dick to someone it's entirely warranted. Not to mention that often people are dicks to me and admins always tell me "it's an IC issue" and immediately solve my ticket.

Both rule 1/8:


Well two previous notes aren't a bunch in the strictest sense but there's a bunch of other unrelated notes too.
Not that a warning is needed, non-antag killing is usually a day per person killed, with +/- modifiers depending on circumstance.

[Dax Dupont]

That said it's pointless arguing about all the things surrounding the ban. The ban reason is more than valid, and I doubt headmins will overrule.

The fact he didn't want to talk to you in discord PMs was within rules and was required of them. If they did the opposite then the headmins would tut tut them.

All the points/facts are on the table and this is just circular reasoning at this points.

[Canela]

Both rule 1/8:


Well two previous notes aren't a bunch in the strictest sense but there's a bunch of other unrelated notes too.
Not that a warning is needed, non-antag killing is usually a day per person killed, with +/- modifiers depending on circumstance.

I believe you do not have context for these cases so let me provide you with some.
For the first one when I got spawned as a sentient carp, the xenobio guy just ran off through the science double doors and I got locked into the science corridors. I had someone else let me out a minute or two ago and I tried my best to find the xenobio guy but I couldn't. Evac shuttle came, so I got onto it. As far as I know, xenobio killing is fair game so I started shooting random shots into people and ended up accidentally killing the xenobio guy. It was an accident and I was later told after being bwoinked that this is wrong and I should've started killing only if I was told by the xenobio guy. Fair enough.

Second case: The report is incorrectly filed. I wasn't attacked and dragged off by "someone" to the dorms, it was a sec officer who just stunbatonned me, cuffed me and instead of telling me what was going on or taking me to the sec brig, he dragged me off towards dorms and I don't recall what happened later. As far as I was considered, he just wanted to off me in one of the dorms. Yeah I did scream "rape" because I wanted to get the attention of other people to help me but instead I got no help and a bwoink from an admin. As far as I'm considered, I was illegally detained with no explanation and probably about to get killed for no good reason and without a probable cause. I never read in any of the server rules that saying the word "rape" was against the rules.

[Canela]

That said it's pointless arguing about all the things surrounding the ban. The ban reason is more than valid, and I doubt headmins will overrule.

The fact he didn't want to talk to you in discord PMs was within rules and was required of them. If they did the opposite then the headmins would tut tut them.

All the points/facts are on the table and this is just circular reasoning at this points.

As I mentioned a couple of posts ago I'm fine with being banned but as I mentioned if the admin who banned me seems to have a personal issue with me he can take it elsewhere, rather than punishing me extra because reasons. Hence I'm not appealing for the ban to be removed but reduced by half as intentionally intended.

[cedarbridge]

Yeah I did scream "rape" because I wanted to get the attention of other people to help me but instead I got no help and a bwoink from an admin. As far as I'm considered, I was illegally detained with no explanation and probably about to get killed for no good reason and without a probable cause. I never read in any of the server rules that saying the word "rape" was against the rules.

You didn't look very hard.

Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed.
No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.

[Canela]

Yeah I did scream "rape" because I wanted to get the attention of other people to help me but instead I got no help and a bwoink from an admin. As far as I'm considered, I was illegally detained with no explanation and probably about to get killed for no good reason and without a probable cause. I never read in any of the server rules that saying the word "rape" was against the rules.

You didn't look very hard.

Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed.
No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.

You do realize I was the victim in that scenario, right? There was no erotic roleplay, and nothing sexual? I just wanted to get the attention of people so they can be potential witnesses. Please stop skewing rules against me.

[cedarbridge]

Yeah I did scream "rape" because I wanted to get the attention of other people to help me but instead I got no help and a bwoink from an admin. As far as I'm considered, I was illegally detained with no explanation and probably about to get killed for no good reason and without a probable cause. I never read in any of the server rules that saying the word "rape" was against the rules.

You didn't look very hard.

Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed.
No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.

You do realize I was the victim in that scenario, right? There was no erotic roleplay, and nothing sexual? I just wanted to get the attention of people so they can be potential witnesses. Please stop skewing rules against me.

That would be true if the person arresting you had made sexual comments or allusions to sexual assault. They did not. You did. Like the ban this thread is appealing, you're overcomplicating something very simple. That said. I stated the rule as it applies to your case and the rule you broke that you said you could not find. I will not debate you further on the subject. Partly because its not my job and partly because your ability to understand the rules as explained to you is critically lacking.

[capn_monkeypaw]

Why are you trying to skew what I said? I told you that I understood what you were telling me, but I don't agree with the way you presented it - you stated it as an opinion, never linked me to the server rules and said "Here's where you're wrong, please read rule #7" for example and then asked me again to confirm if I understood, you instead went with a ban because you felt that I'm arguing with you where I was trying to understand. From my perspective you were telling me "You can't kill people before the round ends because it's wrong" but never quoted any rules or linked me to such.

That being said I understand now because I did the extra legwork that you didn't want to bother with and actually read the rules and saw where I was wrong.

Finally getting around to reading the rules after being told you were in violation of them is not doing "the extra legwork that [the admin] didn't want to bother with." It is your responsibility as a player to be familiar with the rules. A swamped admin can't always take the time to link you to the rules that are already linked twice in Terry's MOTD:



You got banned for a rule violation which prompted you to finally read the rules.

The system works.

[Canela]

Like the ban this thread is appealing, you're overcomplicating something very simple. That said. I stated the rule as it applies to your case and the rule you broke that you said you could not find. I will not debate you further on the subject. Partly because its not my job and partly because your ability to understand the rules as explained to you is critically lacking.

Sorry if I'm overcomplicating. I'm trying to be clear that I believe that gigapuddi effectively doubled a ban sentence because I believe that either he has a personal grudge with me; because he didn't want to bother with it and just decided to punish me for trying to defend my case and explain my point of view; or because he failed to understand that while I understood that I was in the wrong I didn't agree with his ruling and that he poorly handled the situation - instead of quoting direct rules and linking to them which should be done in every case.

If I think or feel that a case has been handled poorly or incorrectly, you bet I will argue and I will do my damn best to explain why.

Finally getting around to reading the rules after being told you were in violation of them is not doing "the extra legwork that [the admin] didn't want to bother with." It is your responsibility as a player to be familiar with the rules. A swamped admin can't always take the time to link you to the rules that are already linked twice in Terry's MOTD:



You got banned for a rule violation which prompted you to finally read the rules.

The system works.

I have read them previously but as I mentioned, I don't keep them open 24/7 so I can cross-reference the rules before I do anything. I made a mistake and I got punished for it, but I don't see why I'm getting punished twice the amount especially after acknowledging this - so I'm going back to the admin having a personal grudge with me.

[Dax Dupont]

You crit/effectively killed two people, why would you get a day ban vs 2 days?

[Canela]

You crit/effectively killed two people, why would you get a day ban vs 2 days?

Because as already mentioned the sentence for this situation is one day but since I wasn't willing to listen (which is false) it's now two days? So what, are you going to make it a week long because I posted an appeal and tried to defend myself and explain my case (which is the entire purpose of the appeal process)?

[terranaut]

I'm trying to be clear that I believe that gigapuddi effectively doubled a ban sentence because I believe that either he has a personal grudge with me; because he didn't want to bother with it and just decided to punish me for trying to defend my case and explain my point of view; or because he failed to understand that while I understood that I was in the wrong I didn't agree with his ruling and that he poorly handled the situation - instead of quoting direct rules and linking to them which should be done in every case.

There was no case for you to make and nothing to defend. You fucked up and broke a rule. The correct response is, "you are right, I fucked up, sorry". It's not Puddis job to read the rules out to you, it's your job to read them and be aware of them. Nobody has the rules open all the time when playing and, somehow, most people don't get banned for killing people randomly.

You crit/effectively killed two people, why would you get a day ban vs 2 days?

Because as already mentioned the sentence for this situation is one day but since I wasn't willing to listen (which is false) it's now two days? So what, are you going to make it a week long because I posted an appeal and tried to defend myself and explain my case?

It's one day per kill. If you crit/killed two people you would've been lucky with 24 hours.

[RandolfTheMeh]

You crit/effectively killed two people, why would you get a day ban vs 2 days?

Because as already mentioned the sentence for this situation is one day but since I wasn't willing to listen (which is false) it's now two days? So what, are you going to make it a week long because I posted an appeal and tried to defend myself and explain my case?

Well two previous notes aren't a bunch in the strictest sense but there's a bunch of other unrelated notes too.
Not that a warning is needed, non-antag killing is usually a day per person killed, with +/- modifiers depending on circumstance.

You've misread this thread if you managed to construe one day ban per person killed would result in a one day ban after you crit (with intention to kill, both that and outright killing are viewed the same to most admins) two people.

[Canela]

You crit/effectively killed two people, why would you get a day ban vs 2 days?

Because as already mentioned the sentence for this situation is one day but since I wasn't willing to listen (which is false) it's now two days? So what, are you going to make it a week long because I posted an appeal and tried to defend myself and explain my case?

Well two previous notes aren't a bunch in the strictest sense but there's a bunch of other unrelated notes too.
Not that a warning is needed, non-antag killing is usually a day per person killed, with +/- modifiers depending on circumstance.

You've misread this thread if you managed to construe one day ban per person killed would result in a one day ban after you crit (with intention to kill, both that and outright killing are viewed the same to most admins) two people.

Following the same logic, is the lawyer who critted me with his briefcase going to get a 1 day ban for the same reasons or is he exempt from these rules?
If you applied the rules to their full extent, he would be. Because I didn't attack him at all and he came at me. But I doubt you will and say it was called for and I fully deserved it.

[RandolfTheMeh]

Following the same logic, is the lawyer who critted me with his briefcase going to get a 1 day ban for the same reasons or is he exempt from these rules?
If you applied the rules to their full extent, he would be. Because I didn't attack him at all and he came at me. But I doubt you will and say it was called for and I fully deserved it.

Someone should try reading the rules!

[Gigapuddi420]

You crit/effectively killed two people, why would you get a day ban vs 2 days?

Because as already mentioned the sentence for this situation is one day but since I wasn't willing to listen (which is false) it's now two days? So what, are you going to make it a week long because I posted an appeal and tried to defend myself and explain my case?

General rule of thumb of random killings is one day per innocent killed. This can be increased or decreased based on factors like your note history, circumstances, attitude in ahelps (lying is often harshly punished, not that you lied). Ban length is down to the admin looking at the ticket, I started with asking you why you were attacking people, then it became clear you didn't understand what you did was wrong so I was explaining what you shouldn't be doing. The fact you wanted to argue the fact through multiple angles made me think you weren't prepared to accept you did wrong and I went with the full two days. I wouldn't be completely improper for me to go harder if you had history of this kind of thing.

Anyway, to try and bring this whole appeal back to the actual ban and not the other stuff. Yeah, I appreciate I didn't give you the hard rule, in retrospect I probably should have but I wanted to resolve it quickly due to the half a dozen other tickets I had waiting during the delay. Taking the time to explain to you something like 'don't kill randoms' wasn't my highest priority. All I was looking for was why you did it and that you understood it's something you shouldn't do again.

Here's the ahelps so we can review what I did wrong.

Code: Select all

Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks)->Glyn/(Yana Mistral): what are you doing?
Glyn/(Yana Mistral)->Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks): Shuttle's gone.
Glyn/(Yana Mistral)->Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks): no pods.
Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks)->Glyn/(Yana Mistral): that doesn't mean kill people. The round isn't over.
Glyn/(Yana Mistral)->Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks): Ok, so how do I get off the station successfully and win?
Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks)->Glyn/(Yana Mistral): you don't. You missed the shuttle. That doesn't give you free license to kill everyone.
Glyn/(Yana Mistral)->Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks): Missing the shuttle is effectively round end scenario for everyone on the station.
Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks)->Glyn/(Yana Mistral): I was only going to make this one day server ban because you killed one and almost killed another, but you aren't getting this.
Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks)->Glyn/(Yana Mistral): you do not have a license to kill people until the end of round text pops up. Even if you are trapped that isn't 'game over, time to grief'.
Glyn/(Yana Mistral)->Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks): Okay, try to explain it without just 'stating facts'. How am I griefing? What are they going to do in the 2 minute downtime? Craft a shuttle so we can escape?
Glyn/(Yana Mistral)->Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks): Also it's an IC issue. I got stranded on the station because someone was too eager to launch evac. So I go on a rampage because I'm stranded now.
Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks)->Glyn/(Yana Mistral): Ok, you are still in the round until the round ends complete with server rules. Just because you didn't escape doesn't mean you get to start killing people because 'oh it doesn't matter, round is basically over' By rules the round is only over when the report comes up. The report didn't come up. You killed people while the round was on going with no reason.
Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks)->Glyn/(Yana Mistral): Roleplay doesn't excuse it
Glyn/(Yana Mistral)->Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks): Okay, I understand that, but I don't agree with what you're saying. Does that make any sense? Sometimes I'm told by admins "it's okay because it's an IC issue" and they just waive my ahelp, but now I'm told "RP doesn't excuse it." So which one is it, is it an IC issue or not permanently? I hate it when people use different excuses just to waive my ahelps but whenever it's against me, it's always valid.

In retrospect I shouldn't have mentioned I would originally ban you for one day, and instead I should have just banned you after explaining that random murder is wrong and not acceptable until AFTER the round ends. I'll reflect on that but I don't feel that this ban is unfair. My aim is to deny this appeal.

[Canela]

Okay, so since it seems that you've already decided I'll be banned for two days following your logic, then you may as well go ahead and ban the guy who downed me after I downed two other guys since he broke the very same rules that I did. The round ID 106749. Go back, see who was the lawyer who critted me and ban him for one day as well since we'll be applying the rules to their full extent.

[RandolfTheMeh]

Okay, so since it seems that you've already decided I'll be banned for two days following your logic, then you may as well go ahead and ban the guy who downed me after I downed two other guys since he broke the very same rules that I did. The round ID 106749. Go back, see who was the lawyer who critted me and ban him for one day as well since we'll be applying the rules to their full extent.

Beating people to crit FNR is acting like an antagonist. Antagonists are valid, and people are allowed to kill them. Please go read the rules.

[Gigapuddi420]

I'm dealing with your appeal here, not some other fight that wasn't brought up within the round. Intent and circumstances matter, it's why you get those messages like 'IC Reason' as there is a whole awkward system in place for escalation. I asked you clearly why you killed these people and you explained that you killed them because you missed the shuttle. Missing the shuttle isn't a valid reason to try and kill people around you and it was pretty clear your intention was to kill them, not just beat them up for some reason.

I'm done here. On my side this appeal is denied; if a headmin wants to look at the case presented here and overrule me I won't take it personally, I just don't think there is anything more to discuss.

[Jimmius]

Okay, so since it seems that you've already decided I'll be banned for two days following your logic, then you may as well go ahead and ban the guy who downed me after I downed two other guys since he broke the very same rules that I did. The round ID 106749. Go back, see who was the lawyer who critted me and ban him for one day as well since we'll be applying the rules to their full extent.

You've already asked this and been answered twice, so I'll try and spell this out even more plainly:
If you're being a griefing shithead and killing people for no reason, the person who kills you is not breaking any rules. It's a bloody 2 day ban, find something else to do with your life.

[wubli]

I am aware people have responded to their claims and it's redundant, but allow me to go over everything again:

Essentially what happened here is I explained that 1) the reason for me to attack two people as a shaft miner was that the shuttle had left the station and pretty much everyone who is abandoned on the station is STRANDED and is effectively OUT of the game since they can't build an escape pod or leave the station by any means.

Wrong. Until the shuttle lands in CentCom, it's not okay to kill people.

yeah
you don't care

They told you they wouldn't handle things on dms. Trying to guilt trip the admin is absolutely childish. You're right: they don't care, because they don't know you nor have any reason to hate you.

if you check my admin remarks you will see that 50% of them or more are solely from him for the most irrelevant or minor things such as "said owo" icly.

Using emoticons in game is OOC in IC, and therefore, against the rules. They are also very active so it makes sense it'd be them if you're on at the same time.

I'm strongly requesting Gigapuddi's post to be ignored. If someone else wants to shorten the ban to one day as initially intended or fully deny the appeal request, then so be it, but you shouldn't be the one who does it as you're directly involved in this appeal request.

This appeal is denied - and an absolute mess. You have multiple people telling you you're wrong and citing rules, but you refuse to acknowledge anything they say and respond "well, are you going to ban that guy who crit me after I started randomly attacking people?": I'll humour this incredibly stupid question that you would understand if you weren't so stubborn or didn't lack basic reading skills. No, we will not ban them, because they saw you randomly attacking people, and stopped you by critting you.

You clearly have a problem with our rules, so I strongly recommend reading them again and asking all the questions you need so this doesn't happen again . Gigapuddi is an amazing and patient admin, and they don't have to deal with you refusing to try to understand why you were in the wrong. Take these two days to cool down.

[PKPenguin321]

Posting in a resolved thread as a forum moderator to remind people of the rules regarding not posting in active ban appeals when you're not involved. The tail end of this thread got really messy because of uninvolved posters, though at this point I won't actually delete any posts as the thread is already resolved.