Banning admin: Nervere
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server
Ban reason and length: Dayban Reason: Killed a security officer in under a minute after they arrived when they were doing a purge of all security as a traitor. As an antagonist, the onus is on you to not kill people fresh off of arrivals if you\'re killing people near arrivals
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 6:50pm CEST, round ID : 106838
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story:
As stated in the ban reason I was a traitor trying to kill security officers and I was on the run trying to evade officers who could be pursuing me and trying to find officers I could kill. I was running around the station using the maintenance tunnels and inside the security checkpoint at arrivals I see the officer Bal DI and he sees me too. I was obviously a suspicious person as my clothes were all bloody and I was wearing a mask. So I shoot him and kill him in the maint behind the checkpoint. When I am killing him he says "Still arrivals."
Why you think you should be unbanned:
The ahelp log :
Spoiler:
What camping and spawn camping means according to wikipedia :4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.
And here is the policy discussion about the matter which didn't get a definitive answer from a headmin : https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=21550https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping_(gaming)
In video gaming, camping is a controversial and much-hated tactic where a player obtains a static strategic position of advantage. This behaviour manifests in different ways depending on the type of game (online text adventure, graphical MMO, first-person shooter, etc.), but invariably involves a player waiting in one location for the game (or other players of the game) to do something which they can take advantage of, often repeatedly.
Spawn camping involves camping or guarding the position of the own spawn on the map.
What happened is that I killed a singular officer in arrivals while running around the station which clearly isn't spawn-camping. As I started attacking him I was not aware that he just spawned because I was paying more attention to my surroundings than to the chat to catch the "x has joined the station" message. I was only made aware of the fact as I had him stunnned and started to kill him when he said "Still arrivals." In my opinion it made more sense from an ic point of view to finish the job rather than let him go because of special "spawn-kill meta protection." And I wasn't sure if he was telling me the truth about just arriving.
I agree with Nervere when he says in the ahelp messages : "the consensus in the thread you linked is that the rule is context-dependent."
But then Nervere says : "In this context, you killed someone just about right after the arrivals shuttle. As an antagonist, the onus is on you to make sure that, when killing near arrivals, you're not killing fresh spawns."
The context that matters is not the absolute context of the game which Nervere refers to but the local context which is the perspective of the player and the intent.
I did not see the officer step out of the arrival shuttle because he was already in the checkpoint and I had no idea he just joined the game. It is unfair to say that it is the antagonist's responsibility to make sure all the people he kills in arrivals are not fresh spawns. There is no obvious indicator and it does not make sense ic. To me Bal DI was just another security officer going about his business who would readily arrest me for looking suspicious and execute me when he finds my traitor items.
Moreover I killed a security officer who has weapons and whose job is to arrest people and take antagonists out of the round. It was not someone who joined the game to play botany or xenobiology but someone who joined to game to arrest people and hunt down antagonists.
What was I supposed to do to not get banned by Nervere?
Should I have taunted the officer to make him shoot first?
Should I have waited until he went to the brig and then killed him?
Should I have let him go after he told me "still arrivals"?
I was an antagonist, didn't see him step out of the shuttle and nowhere it is said that it is the antagonist's responsibility to make sure he is not killing fresh spawns. Most importantly i was not spawn-camping arrivals. It was just an unfortunate one-off kill which is a natural part of the game where traitors and security fight eachothers.
If the ruling "As an antagonist, the onus is on you to make sure that, when killing near arrivals, you're not killing fresh spawns." is going to be made official then I am kindly requesting to not be punished as that ruling was not made official until now.
EDIT 26/04/2019 : Nervere when you reply to this post please don't say that even though what I did wasn't explicitely against the rules I was breaking rule 1 : being a dick.
I was acting withing the boundaries of the game. You can't say security officers are breaking rule 1 when they permabrig people for having syndie items and you can't say antags killing people are breaking rule 1.
That is part of the game. Some people might get upset at dying in the game but it is just like dying in any other game.
