[K Peculiar] Zemsta - Greytiding/Metacomming

[Zemsta]

Byond account and character name: Zemsta - Antoni Macierewicz
Banning admin: K Peculiar
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server, Permanent
Ban reason and length: Constand greytiding without any good reason and obvious constant metacomms with Kubot3. If teaming up together and ganging up against other players is your idea of fun, tg is not for you.
This ban is permanent.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2019-04-30 17:21:47 round ID 107325
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil

Your side of the story: So it was wizard round, I was miner and wizard spawned summon magic, I got staff of doors, I made door to HoP office and he chased after me with a disabler and arrested me, then he was dragging me around, beating me, and tried to blind me with flashes for like 3-4 mins, then he gulagged me for 1k points and took my door staff, so after I got out of gulag I kept opening his new door to HoP office and few people with wizard gear went in, one of them disarmed HoP and disabled him, I tried to attack HoP but he stunned me with baton and started beating me, then some Nick guy started beating me and nearly critted me, I escaped out of HoP office and found his empty disabler on the ground so I took it and recharged it, then I tried to disable HoP to rob him but he escaped to bridge, I escaped to maint and then I heard on comms that Nick killed HoP and spaced him, so I strolled around, I saw that there is free door staff in botany so I grabbed it and made a few doors to medbay, teleporter, maints etc. etc. Then Captain bought Oh, Hi Daniel shuttle and called it so I asked admin if I can lynch him for that, admin said yes so I killed cap in escapes then I looted him, Tomasz Chada was in escapes so I gave him all access and told him to give me all access but power in ID consoles was off, but shuttle was coming so whatever, I went to shuttle and buckled myself to a chair, and when shuttle launched some guy started shooting me with a revolver and then people tried killing me, I think its because I had ghosts orbiting me and captain pointing at me, I got staff of healed and then someone pushed me out of airlock, then I got banned.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I don't think that memeing with door staff on wizard round is that much of 'greytiding' when everyone has all access and is fucking around but yeah, also I toned my greytiding a lot after admin banned me for it previously, I was trying to get HoP because he was a cunt and tried to blind me, and I don't know why I got banned for metacomms, I saw Tomasz like one time in the entire round and it was when I threw all access at him and he didn't help me fight anyone, I gave him all access but I give all access to all people I know when I have it. I didn't get to tell my side of story either because admin just permabanned me without bwoinking me or anything.
Also Tomasz is polish, I barely see him on server because I play mostly at nights when there is high pop.

[K Peculier]

You've been on a watchlist with the other player in question for metacomms for quite a while. And from several reports, time and time it would always be the two of you somehow magically helping each other out of trouble and teaming up against people as non-antagonist roles.

Not only that but you've already received a warning and prior bans for going too far with griefing and overreactions going straight into coordinated murders on the victims without any prior IC interactions.

If you sincerely believe that your actions are justified by going on full murder for that particular round, I would suggest you tone it down by a lot. But the real issue has been the constant acts of godly cooperation between you two in multiple reports and observations.

If you can provide the ckey of the admin in question that approved of the Captain murder for buying such a shuttle please provide it as well.

[Malkraz]

Past headmin ruling is that buying terrible shuttles makes you valid.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 30#p313973

[Zemsta]

"You've been on a watchlist with the other player in question for metacomms for quite a while. And from several reports, time and time it would always be the two of you somehow magically helping each other out of trouble and teaming up against people as non-antagonist roles."
You mean metagang? I guess you should ban Charlotte and Hates-The-Names too then, they saved me from security officers/brig countless times. I suppose I get reported when Tomasz saves me because of much foreign names, you know when Charlotte wordlessly drags me away from security officer its this 'darn greytide', but when one guy with foreign name wordlessly drags away another guy with foreign name its metacomms. And if I got ahelped for metacomming and ganging up on people that round then its really amazing, because the only interaction I had with Tomasz that round was throwing all access at him.

"Not only that but you've already received a warning and prior bans for going too far with griefing and overreactions going straight into coordinated murders on the victims without any prior IC interactions."
I mean, not really? First of I had only 1 ban, and it was 24h ban for robbing detective and critting a captain who tried to murder me with a sword(I did it all alone too), I also have 3 notes for OOC in IC. I don't really murder people either as non-antag, unless they tried to dispose of my body after killing me.
"and overreactions going straight into coordinated murders on the victims without any prior IC interactions" and I don't know where you got that, I NEVER did such a thing, are you saying that I randomly run up to people and kill them for no reason? I really feel like you confused me with someone else

"If you sincerely believe that your actions are justified by going on full murder for that particular round, I would suggest you tone it down by a lot. But the real issue has been the constant acts of godly cooperation between you two in multiple reports and observations."
Uhh that round I killed only captain who bought shit shuttle, also I don't know if someone really ahelped me for 'cooperating' with Tomasz that round, but I literally saw him once and it was when I threw captain's ID at him.

"If you can provide the ckey of the admin in question that approved of the Captain murder for buying such a shuttle please provide it as well."
No admins were online so I asked imsxz on discord if "You can kill captains who buy shit shuttles like "Oh, Hi Daniel" right?" so I got told yes and to make sure that I get the right person.

[Fatal]

If only it was just simply dragging each other away


I've noticed multiple instances of wordless coordination between you both

One instant, which I spotted, was that Kubot had been permabrigged for tiding, nothing new there, however you wordlessly broke into EVA, stole two spacesuits, and proceeded to fly outside permabrig to break him out, however he had not said in comms that he had been permabrigged and you had absolutely no chat lines during the round up to this point, upon getting to permabrig, and proceeding to try break him out, a security officer had come to permabrig, grabbed him, and taken him to the gulag teleporter room (on box station), upon this occuring you flew around the station to the gulag teleporter room and started bashing the window, despite not actually being able to see that kubot had been taken away from permabrig beforehand

Next instance, one of you was a traitor, and after killing a few security officers were killed by the QM, Brick Carr, the other one of you had already suicided, or was ghosted (unsure which but it doesn't really matter), you then both spawned as ashwalkers, wordlessly made your way to the mining station, entered the station, and then proceeded to kill Brick, you had no communication in dead chat about doing this nor whilst alive as ashwalkers did you talk about it

Another instance, Zemsta had stolen the teleporter hand tele early in the round and stole a spacesuit from EVA and proceeded to explore space (I'm fairly sure all access had been stolen as well), after returning to the station, you were arrested by the Captain for it, and upon being brigged, yelled you were being arrested for "Space Loot", meanwhilst, Kubot had been tiding against the HoP for no reason and stole his ID and gun, upon you yelling that you were arrested, Kubot immediately let go of his HoP capture and ran to the brig, rather than seeing if you were in there and trying to see what had happened, he wordlessly started shooting the warden who had just entered the brig with a prisoner with disabler rounds (without being able to see your cell and if you were in it), ran into the brig, ran to your cell, and grabbed you, dragged you a few tiles before he was gunned down by the rest of security

Final notable instance, but this could be called extreme metafriending and not metacomming if you want to be "technical" about this, upon yet another Zemsta goes traitor and murderbones everyone round, you had amassed quite a pile of dead bodies in maint, everyone who came past was chased down and murdered, which is fine for a traitor, however, Kubot comes near to your pile of bodies, sees it, makes absolutely no comment about it on comms like most people would, and hangs around just off screen, I presume to warn you of incoming people, but that is speculation on my part, anyhow, another traitor dressed as the HOS comes by, you stun him, he shouts out codewords, and is murdered anyway, but then you come across Kubot, who was asleep, and rather than murdering him as you did all before, you tried to hypnoflash him, which is pretty suspicious given that you won't take the aid of another traitor yelling codewords

As for the tiding, I banned you for murder after one of your tiding sprees, but honestly you both should have been warned or banned for tiding much earlier

Don't be a dick.
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules. Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.

Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.

Multiple admins, and even many players, have seen you both switching servers to roll for antag, beating yourselves to death if you don't get it and then you Zemsta have asked in deadchat what the roundtype is, I presume to find out if its a conversion round, and then if you don't get antag on any servers, tide to the point one or both of you both get permabrigged or executed, and the banning I gave you was for exactly that, except you escaped permabrig and were attacked by the Captain who then ended up dead from that conflict

As for the round yesterday where you gave Kubot the Caps ID, I wasn't there for the whole round but multiple players reported it to us that you had more or less wordlessly met up in maint and given him the Caps ID after murdering the Captain, which coupled with all the other incidents led to this ban

[Zemsta]

"One instant, which I spotted, was that Kubot had been permabrigged for tiding, nothing new there, however you wordlessly broke into EVA, stole two spacesuits, and proceeded to fly outside permabrig to break him out, however he had not said in comms that he had been permabrigged and you had absolutely no chat lines during the round up to this point, upon getting to permabrig, and proceeding to try break him out, a security officer had come to permabrig, grabbed him, and taken him to the gulag teleporter room (on box station), upon this occuring you flew around the station to the gulag teleporter room and started bashing the window, despite not actually being able to see that kubot had been taken away from permabrig beforehand"
Actually I saw him getting arrested and dragged to perma, I broke to perma and didn't see him so I thought he was executed, I flew around and saw him getting gulaged(it was box station), and I was doing this because I was braiwashed by hivemind to "KILL SEC", later on I broke to armory and got killed, which Tomasz saw, I think he was executed later too.
"Next instance, one of you was a traitor, and after killing a few security officers were killed by the QM, Brick Carr, the other one of you had already suicided, or was ghosted (unsure which but it doesn't really matter), you then both spawned as ashwalkers, wordlessly made your way to the mining station, entered the station, and then proceeded to kill Brick, you had no communication in dead chat about doing this nor whilst alive as ashwalkers did you talk about it"
This is actually the same round with permabrig/gulag and I was brainwashed by hivemind, not a traitor, and im pretty sure Tomasz got executed after I got executed. I spawned as an ashwalker, later on Tomasz spawned as an ashwalker, I knew it was him because of specific playstyle all players have, in his case its not talking untill you speak to them, and you can see at first glance if someone is competent just by the way they move/equip items, we made our way to mining I think I killed a miner before that? and we got up, there was QM Brick in mining area so we killed him, he had disablers and I told Tomasz to "GET ME Up" "GET ME UUPP" several times too. If someone played ashwalker atleast a few times he would do his work wordlessly too, because there is really nothing to speak about, DESTINATION STATION, you only speak to other ashwalkers to teach them stuff, tell them to follow you or order them to do something, competent ashwalkers usually know what to do and ashwalkers playing silently and going to mining station is actually a common thing.

"Another instance, Zemsta had stolen the teleporter hand tele early in the round and stole a spacesuit from EVA and proceeded to explore space (I'm fairly sure all access had been stolen as well), after returning to the station, you were arrested by the Captain for it, and upon being brigged, yelled you were being arrested for "Space Loot", meanwhilst, Kubot had been tiding against the HoP for no reason and stole his ID and gun, upon you yelling that you were arrested, Kubot immediately let go of his HoP capture and ran to the brig, rather than seeing if you were in there and trying to see what had happened, he wordlessly started shooting the warden who had just entered the brig with a prisoner with disabler rounds (without being able to see your cell and if you were in it), ran into the brig, ran to your cell, and grabbed you, dragged you a few tiles before he was gunned down by the rest of security"
Classic, on yog's there is a lot of metaganging, like Ludvik Govno, me, and Tomasz, if one of us got arrested we would constantly break each out of brig, also I was in first cell, he definitely could see me, it was after he grabbed me that captain moved me one cell up. It's a playstyle, Ludvik and Tomasz are assistant mains, they don't do any jobs maybe security occasionally, they just run around and validhunt/greytide wordlessly. I don't do that tho, unless I have antag status.

"Final notable instance, but this could be called extreme metafriending and not metacomming if you want to be "technical" about this, upon yet another Zemsta goes traitor and murderbones everyone round, you had amassed quite a pile of dead bodies in maint, everyone who came past was chased down and murdered, which is fine for a traitor, however, Kubot comes near to your pile of bodies, sees it, makes absolutely no comment about it on comms like most people would, and hangs around just off screen, I presume to warn you of incoming people, but that is speculation on my part, anyhow, another traitor dressed as the HOS comes by, you stun him, he shouts out codewords, and is murdered anyway, but then you come across Kubot, who was asleep, and rather than murdering him as you did all before, you tried to hypnoflash him, which is pretty suspicious given that you won't take the aid of another traitor yelling codewords"
I don't really watch the chat for coderwords while murdering several security officers, anyway I don't team up with people who are part of security especially "HoS", and there was period of time in which I would use mindflash by converting robust people and telling them to do what they want, I pretty much used it only on Respii/Lexia/Tomasz and Charlotte once I think. Also I don't kill people I know who hang around my pile of corpses as long as they don't try to rush at me, ask Lily Blackburn(?), Kraven, Lexia or probably even Charlotte, I usually don't kill them on my killing sprees since they don't try to attack me, I basically ignore them while killing their entire departament. And this specific situation I actually think that it was Tomasz who was murderboning, I just had really good laugh watching all those people go in and try to retrieve bodies just to get jumped, and Tomasz actually did try to kill me then, he just wouldn't dare leave his safe maint area to chase me to hallway, that's why I was staying off screen so he can't rush me with a stunbaton, then when he went away I went there to loot some corpses especially the corpse of that shaft miner that I saw in dorms earlier, I think I found traitor gear? but then I just dropped down for some reason im not sure if it was virus, oxygen or something else, maybe miasma? it just knocked me out, Tomasz saw me sleeping/dying and tried to hypnoflash me I think? then I died somehow, HoS and security officer arrived and HoS was screaming coderwords, but its an HoS so he could as well get those codewords from a traitor. Anyway I don't scream about traitors/lings murdering someone unless it looks like they are murdering stealthy and just their target, again people can probably confirm that since when I see someone robust murderbone I usually commit die or let them murder me to watch the show as a ghost.

"As for the tiding, I banned you for murder after one of your tiding sprees, but honestly you both should have been warned or banned for tiding much earlier"
Yeah well it was self-defense but I suppose critting captain instead of trying to run away was too much, he tried to slash me with a sabre, anyway now I usually just run around untill something happens to kill the time, or dab myself to get a cool trauma, since it seems that admins have different stances on greytiding and I don't really want to catch a ban again.

"Multiple admins, and even many players, have seen you both switching servers to roll for antag, beating yourselves to death if you don't get it and then you Zemsta have asked in deadchat what the roundtype is, I presume to find out if its a conversion round, and then if you don't get antag on any servers, tide to the point one or both of you both get permabrigged or executed, and the banning I gave you was for exactly that, except you escaped permabrig and were attacked by the Captain who then ended up dead from that conflict"
Yeah I did switch servers for a while to roll antag when I was rather new and didn't really care what server I play on, now I play only on Bagil because other servers are pretty dull, and Sybil occasionally when it has higher pop at the morning than Bagil.
And I ask "what gamemode?" in deathchat to make sure if I should watch the round, or fuck off and do something else if its cult or traitors with not-very good players, or extended. Cult is just so repetitive
"tide to the point one or both of you both get permabrigged or executed, and the banning I gave you was for exactly that, except you escaped permabrig and were attacked by the Captain who then ended up dead from that conflict"
I really don't know how captain died from that, I critted him in dorms and he was like 10 hp off getting up, there was CMO right behind the door, and he got taken by CMO like 2 seconds after I critted him, I could literally patch him up with 1 bruise pack. he was deffibed later too. Anyway, after that ban I don't really greytide that much, I was greytiding because of those rounds in which stealth nuke ops would take 30-40 mins to get to the station and HoS, 2 security officers, and AI would tell me that I "made their round" and that without me it would be "boring shift" in OOC at round end, and overall some of security officers enjoy trying to catch me, AI enjoys watching it or bolting the doors to help catch me, and ghosts enjoy watching it, sometimes I even got promoted to captain/security officer by HoS/Captain who were impressed by my skill.

"As for the round yesterday where you gave Kubot the Caps ID, I wasn't there for the whole round but multiple players reported it to us that you had more or less wordlessly met up in maint and given him the Caps ID after murdering the Captain, which coupled with all the other incidents led to this ban"
Now that, the maint was open, it was next to escapes with shuttle arriving in few mins I was looting captain next to entrance, I didn't want captain's stuff because I was wanted by sec, I took a look if someone is watching so I can loot in peace, I saw Tomasz in escapes so I threw all access at him and told him to give me all access in ID console, he told me on comms with big green text that power in console was off, I went there myself too to check if it was off, and then I went to escape shuttle because shift was ending anyway.
He wasn't even in maint when I threw ID at him, I went out of maint and saw him in escapes with shuttle arriving in few mins, and IT wasn't wordlessly, I literally asked him if he wants captains stuff several times before leading him to a locker with free stuff, then I told him to GO to ID console and give me all access. I also killed captain 100% myself. If someone really reported it then its just wow, as I said its probably because of names, never got reported for throwing AA at Charlotte or Lexia wordlessly. except it wasn't even wordlessly, I asked him several times, if I really got multiple reports for that then wow, I saw the guy ONCE in the entire round I TALKED to him if he wants free stuff.

[Fatal]

"One instant, which I spotted, was that Kubot had been permabrigged for tiding, nothing new there, however you wordlessly broke into EVA, stole two spacesuits, and proceeded to fly outside permabrig to break him out, however he had not said in comms that he had been permabrigged and you had absolutely no chat lines during the round up to this point, upon getting to permabrig, and proceeding to try break him out, a security officer had come to permabrig, grabbed him, and taken him to the gulag teleporter room (on box station), upon this occuring you flew around the station to the gulag teleporter room and started bashing the window, despite not actually being able to see that kubot had been taken away from permabrig beforehand"

Actually I saw him getting arrested and dragged to perma, I broke to perma and didn't see him so I thought he was executed, I flew around and saw him getting gulaged(it was box station), and I was doing this because I was braiwashed by hivemind to "KILL SEC", later on I broke to armory and got killed, which Tomasz saw, I think he was executed later too.


"

Ah yeah I do remember that round now, you did get brainwashed, but it was AFTER you tried to break him out which is how you got murdered by Brick after killing security officers

[knacker48]

Classic, on yog's there is a lot of metaganging, like Ludvik Govno, me, and Tomasz, if one of us got arrested we would constantly break each out of brig

Even if we assume that your not using metacomm's, right here you just admitted that you would constantly metagame by breaking tomasz out of brig, which is still against the rules

2. Do not use information gained outside of in character means.
I.e.. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Skype, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason.

[Zemsta]

Even if we assume that your not using metacomm's, right here you just admitted that you would constantly metagame by breaking tomasz out of brig, which is still against the rules
"I don't do that tho, unless I have antag status."
I was doing that on yog where it was allowed, now I don't really care that much about breaking people out of brig.

[Malkraz]

Assistants break each other out of brig every single round I doubt you could call any particular instance "metafriending" non-arbitrarily. You could argue it's similar to any role helping out others from their department.
Past examples of metafriending rulings include things like the captain giving his geneticist buddy AA with no prior interaction.

[imsxz]

There's an extremely important difference between metacomming and metaganging. You can appeal a metagang/tideshittery ban. It would be extremely poor form to leave a ban like this as-is when metacomms bans are almost impossible to appeal unless you wait a year or two (or more).

[K Peculier]

Judging from the responses and rules present here, I still see no reason to lift it even under the reason of "Its not that bad" that may be made.

I might be willing to reapeal it if it was more of an appeal on metagang/tideshittery as I still see this as pretty clear-cut awful behavior still.

In which case another thread could be made in those regards. Otherwise this will still be denied by me personally.

[Hulkamania]

It took us quite a while to get to this one, and we apologize on that front. We're going to be denying this appeal.

Not only did you go far beyond your station both in this incident and in previous ones, it has been consistently with the same player. You were already suspected of giving them special treatment, and you've even admitted that you had interactions with them on other servers in a similar manner. You've stepped far over the line between "having a friend in character" and "giving someone special treatment just because they're your friend."

That being said, as imsxz pointed out there may not be enough evidence to make a call for meta communication here, but definitely over the line meta friendship and greytiding that are rule 1 vioations at the very least. To that end I'm requesting that K Peculier change "meta communication" to "meta friendship" in the note itself. You may appeal this ban again in one years time, as is the standard for a perma.