NecromancerAnne - Jackrip - Antag banned for ghosting

[jackrip]

Banned from Roles: Abductor, Xenomorph, Blob, Blood Brother, Changeling, Cultist, Devil, Internal Affairs Agent, Malf AI, Monkey, Space Ninja, Operative, Syndicate Mutineer, Revolutionary, Revenant, Head Revolutionary, Servant of Ratvar, Syndicate, Traitor, Wizard for 1 month - Has been ghosting/suiciding roundstart when they don't get antagonist. This appears to be a pattern of antagrolling. If you only play when you get to grief freely because you don't want to play at any other opportunity, why should we let you continue to play the grief role?


Byond account and character name: Jackrip randomname

Banning admin: NecromancerAnn

Ban type (What are you banned from?): Antag ban

Ban reason and length: 1 month

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2019-07-09 07:04:09

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Neither, happened when I was logged off. I was never talked to.

Your side of the story: I play as a non antag all the time. Chaplain, scientist, assistant. With over 400 hours of living time, I am constantly coming up with gimmicks and fun things to do. I was antag banned without any warning, without any conversation. I had 0 idea this was even a rule as there is NOTHING in the rules about round start suicide or ghosting. I do occasionally ghost or suicide as assistant (Sometimes I want to observe if I don't get traitor, everyone f does this), but I also play at least 5 rounds of non antag per day.

Why you think you should be unbanned: This is a really shitty ban with no real basis. it feels personal and out of the blue. I am an active player and only play on tg. I've been playing ss13 for 8 years, sometimes I want to observe if I don't roll traitor. If that can't be the case, then make it an official rule, give me a warning, and start applying the rule to everyone, not just me.

[jackrip]

Some more information - I only play chaplain and assistant, and I would never ghost or suicide as chap. so this was about me ghosting as an assistant. I am very sick right now, and getting antag is an awesome way to escape that.

While I love playing as a normal chaplain or assistant and doing gimmicks, the chance of being converted or enslaved or getting blob makes playing as a normal character that much more exciting. Without it ss13 loses a lot of its shine, and I doubt I will stick around for long.

[RandolfTheMeh]

The round on which this ban is based was round 112704 on Sybil, the player disconnected at approximately 06:46 UTC on 07/09/2019. (src,statbus, scrubby, bobbah)

[Cw3040]

If it is true that Jack plays rounds as non-antag, then under this ruling here it's not a bannable offense

[Malkraz]

Suicide and suicide for the purpose of antag rolling are generally handled differently
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22704&p=495398
Though there was never a headmin ruling in this particular thread, antag rolling has historically been a bannable offense

[Arianya]

This post was deleted by Arianya on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:25 am.
Reason: This isn't Policy Discussion.

[Arianya]

I appreciate people's intent, but this isn't the place to debate whether [x] is a rule or not - the two posts on the matter above are all that's really needed as they provide historical context but let's avoid argumentation/Policy Discussion style discussion - if there's any question as to the precedent regarding it I'm sure a Headmin will comment.

[jackrip]

nevere stop defending your shitty friend. he was repeatedly a cunt, unprovoked, because he has some grudge against me. I decide to talk shit back and you discord ban me.

Stop defending the bitch boy

I can't even remember his name and now I can't get it from discord reeee

Imagine protecting someone who talks mad shit and then complains to admins when you do it back

[Nervere]

Context: jackrip was banned from our Discord server and immediately after made the above post.
You were warned yesterday/two days ago about harassing Mitchell via DMs after you had an argument with him on the rules in the Discord server.
I told you you'd get yeeted out if you kept harassing them. After this, they blocked you. Today, I got called into VC because you were using voice chat as a means of bypassing the block and continue the harassment.
In fact, you even admitted as such when I asked why you were bothering them in VC. I don't know what to tell you - I warned you!

[jackrip]

There was no argument, he started repeatedly insulting me when I talked about getting antag banned in discord. He eventually told me it was because he knows me and hates me / hopes I get banned. I responded to him directly and he blocks me, and tells an admin (You, his friend) immediately. Then he continued to talk shit in discord about me.

Fuck that guy. Why defend someone who is going out of their way to be an asshole?

Oh right. because he is your friend

[NecromancerAnne]

I have no idea about anything that has occured outside of this appeal and frankly I don't see it relevant at all to this argument. I'm going to elect to ignore it and address the ban on its own.

I do apologise for the abrupt and warningless ban. Personally, in the round I applied the ban, I would have prefered to have had a conversation about it and get to the bottom of the matter. However, sadly, you had disconnected. So I suppose we'll settle with this.

One thing I want to make note of here is that I hold nothing against you and the few things I have seen you do that has involved admin stuff from me I've been really impressed with. With the roles you have been given you seem to make use of them in fun ways and I appreciate that.

But we do need to address the issue of your antag rolling. You have somewhat admitted that you suicide a lot as assistant and that antag is something of an escape. I can sympathize with the health issues given I myself am going through some health stuff that's complicating my life and I can agree that antag is a nice form of cartharsis from that. But I do try to take the effort to do stuff in rounds I'm not antag, even if it's for a little bit or give reason not to just aghost/suicide since nothing is really happening (I used to try and get the BYOS brought just because thats really fun to build but right now you can't since the price hike so that's one project down the drain for me, hopefully that is fixed soon). I play curator, so I am basically one step away from an assistant anyway.

The reason I did actually move to apply any punishment was because someone recognized that it was you. They knew you had done it the round before, had done it in previous rounds, and knew you were the same person. Usually this kind of behavior is noticed because of static naming. But you play random name and random appearance. So that tells me this is a very egregious case of antag rolling. We had also been keeping track of you for some time, so again this says quite a lot.

The length of the ban was suggested by other admins, one of whom was an admin trainer. I am now beginning to wonder if maybe it was a bit much given you had no previous warnings about it. So Jackrip, what if we cut a deal on this matter?

You say you only suicide as assistant? If so, why don't we apply instead an assistant ban and the antag ban is lifted in the meantime. If what you say is true, you should very easily be able to maintain play across multiple rounds for the next month to prove that you are true to your word, and also allow you to continue to play antag. If the pattern continues, which I hope not, then the ban is reapplied.

How does that sound? A headmin can of course come in and say the ban sticks as is if they want but I do want to give you the opportunity to prove that you can be on your best behaviour.

[jackrip]

I appreciate you taking the time to come up with a thoughtful and helpful approach, even after my shitstorm in discord. That sounds great to me, I would be happy to play without ghosting if it means I can keep my chance at becoming an antagonist. Seriously appreciate the response.

[Hulkamania]

This thread has reached a reasonable conclusion, but I'm going to follow up with a statement for clarity:

If you're antag rolling consistently, AKA only seeing if you get antag or not, then leaving the round in one way or another when you don't, you are breaking the rules. If someone is occasionally suiciding or ghosting or any other method at round start, there's plenty of reasons someone might do so other than that. When we notice a consistent pattern, even if you play a round or two between attempts, that's when we have to really call into question the persons motivations behind doing so.

Additionally, if you're offline an admin is still going to take action against something if they thought it was something actionable. A ban appeal is a good place for the conversation that would've occurred in an ahelp to take place in lieu of the normal process. It's not ideal, but we would rather an admin take action on something than let someone go who they're fairly certain was a guilty party just because the person got offline before they could be spoken to.