Jimmius - role ban

[n00bllna]

Byond account and character name: n00bllna/Kills-The-Miners
When and where this incident occured (Terry): 2019-08-04 16:01:34
Admin: Jimmius
Round ID: 115086
Detailed summary:
I play as a free golem in the game from very start. I was mining and calling people to become free by saying "Enemies of communist regime called Nanotrasen come join us at golem ship and be free from oppresors" "Free your shakles from communist regime Nanotrasen and become free at golem ship" and so on. -This is important
People came we mined together everything fine and certanly we werent making bombs to kill the station crew. After some time I went to station and started breaking glass in the security office (glass that looks at entrance of medbay) and after breaking cmo took out his telescopic bat and said "dont" yet he was there with bat wanting to stun me after still standing there I said to him that I will kill him and I shoved him on table and took bat stuned him and took security locker. 2 more people joined stunned me and fight brough out while I was running and attacking the 3 of them were chasing me and attacking and eventualy killed me for 1st time. After I rose again and got my stuff taken I said that I called for golems to blow up their ships (mining shuttles) to kill all the humans they see starting from cmo and botany (After all golems are netral and by killing me I had every right to seek my revenge by rule of engagment). Chasing botany guy thinking he stole my stuff with broken bottle I was eventualy arrested,escaped since security is security, and went to get healed in medbay since I was damaged. Then in medbay with no weapons in hand and taking patches to heal CMO stunned me with bat and killed me with my own resonator for 2nd time dragged me to morgue and put me inside one of those body freezers. I respawned and took stun baton of a guy inside and tried to get out but I had no acces. CMO entered the room I stunned him killed him with my weapon I took off him and draged his body to evac to space him. By my defenition and rules of engangment I got killed 2 times by same person and had every right to kill him and since he tried to dispose of my body in those freezers I disposed of his.
The issue with admin:
The issue with admin is because I got job role ban on golems ash lizards ect... and his claim " borderline self antag as a golem- threatened to kill the CMO when he was asked to stop breaking into the medbay sec outpost, then stunned the CMO when he took out his baton. He was the first to escalate to lethal attacks, and when he got his shit kicked in, revived and called for everyone to murder the CMO, tried to recruit traitors to his side, and ended up murdering the CMO. You can't wind up the crew as a golem and then use them getting pissed at you as an excuse to murder them." First of all I was neutral whole game and I helped people who were at lavaland, second he said I was trying to recruit traitors (Yet I called for enemies of communist regime and free your shakles from .... After all isnt a Free golem a free one and wants everyone to feel that freedom he has? He called Nanotrasen a capitalist (capitalism where best one is rewarded) while Nanotrasen is megacorp (corporation where most cunning is rewarded) and told me that they are not communist while not knowing that workers contract exist in lawyer office (the ones calling everyone slaves working for Nanotrasen, that they sold their souls ect...). Then he proceeded to tell me I had no reason to kill CMO even though he killed me 2 times and 1 time without reason because "crew got pissed at me". So is this basically saying that I cant retaliate against someone because he was "pissed" at me. And his final word is that I was recruiting "traitors" and that I am "Neutral" and that I cant attack them, basically saying that I was "self-antaging" by calling people to join us at free golem ship that they will be fed and protected and that a "Neutral" creature who is attacked should not retaliate. I do not care about role ban (1 week) but what I care about is that he not only does not know the in-game lore in "roleplaying game" but doesnt know about rules of engagment as well.

[SkeletalElite]

If you are the instigator in a conflict and end up killing or severely impairing the round of the person you are fighting, you should make a reasonable effort to return them to life at least once or make amends, only seeking round removal if they continue to pursue you. This protection doesn't apply to an instigator being killed.

also wrong forum, this is a ban appeal. Not a complaint

[Ghilker]

You self antagged as a free golem

You are deeply in the wrong for starting the attack on the station (breaking windows) and attacking humans (CMO) as a free golem

This should be a ban appeal and not an admin complaint because you want to "role play". In case you didn't notice you cannot justify murdering or griefing with as little IC reason as possible and saying "is role play"

Next

[n00bllna]

If you are the instigator in a conflict and end up killing or severely impairing the round of the person you are fighting, you should make a reasonable effort to return them to life at least once or make amends, only seeking round removal if they continue to pursue you. This protection doesn't apply to an instigator being killed.

also wrong forum, this is a ban appeal. Not a complaint

I am complaining because admin does not know lore of the game not because I was role banned

[n00bllna]

You self antagged as a free golem

You are deeply in the wrong for starting the attack on the station (breaking windows) and attacking humans (CMO) as a free golem

This should be a ban appeal and not an admin complaint because you want to "role play". In case you didn't notice you cannot justify murdering or griefing with as little IC reason as possible and saying "is role play"

Next

How was I self antaging? Please explain to me how breaking not windows but 1 window is self antaging? also I shoved the CMO and retaliated when they starded attacking. Also your attitude "Next" explains a lot of your personality

[Gigapuddi420]

I was playing in this round as security and I remember you shouting over the general radio how you'll accept all enemies of Nanotransen and when one guy inevitably gets annoyed you're looking to ally with antagonists and makes threats you seemed to start talking about how this is war. I don't know how much your actual actions supported this, but you made it pretty clear on the radio you were against the station from the start and it's kind of rich to be like 'oh shit they attacked me' when your opening statements are in support of people who would attack the corporation. Lavaland golems are supposed to be peaceful and neutral unless antagonized.

Code: Select all

14:24:10 	SAY   n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "enemies of nanotrasen" 	
14:24:19 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "We golems welcome you in our humble ship" 	
14:24:27 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "You may built your base here" 	
14:24:53 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "You can draw runes ere and whatever you want" 	
14:26:54 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "Free your shakles from communist regime Nanotrasen and become free at golem ship" 
14:28:18 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "ENEMIES OF NANOTRASEN COME TO THE GOLEM SHIP" 	
14:28:33 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "WE OFFER PROTECTION AND FREE FOOD FROM LAVALAND" 	
14:29:30 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "hello golem" 	
14:29:44 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "I know" 
14:30:35 	SAY 	n00bllna/(Adamantine Crust) "ENEMIES OF NANOTRASEN JOIN US AT MINING"

[n00bllna]

I was playing in this round as security and I remember you shouting over the general radio how you'll accept all enemies of Nanotransen and when one guy inevitably gets annoyed you're looking to ally with antagonists and makes threats you seemed to start talking about how this is war. I don't know how much your actual actions supported this, but you made it pretty clear on the radio you were against the station from the start and it's kind of rich to be like 'oh shit they attacked me' when your opening statements are in support of people who would attack the corporation. Lavaland golems are supposed to be peaceful and neutral unless antagonized.

There is a round id there you can read the chat logs and everything I said since. "I called enemies of communist regime Nanotrasen", "Remove shakles of your oppresor ect" I see no problem as that since after all Free golem is Free. Shouting to murder people with a good reason since you humans actually murdered me and robed me of my stuff. I still dont see problem in that since after all It wasnt I who killed first it was I who died first. I am quite intrigue that nor admins nor people playing here actually know the lore of the SS13 and Megacorp Nanotrasen and why syndicates are fighting them. Also by lore Nanotrasen was always if you are not "us" you are against us.

[Gigapuddi420]

I mean I just looked it up above from parsed logs on scrubby. You were even saying that cultists could make a base with you. Not sure how to take that as anything but allying yourself with antags.

[n00bllna]

I mean I just looked it up above from parsed logs on scrubby. You were even saying that cultists could make a base with you. Not sure how to take that as anything but allying yourself with antags.

Have you read the workers contract of nanotrasen in the lawyer office? Arent free golems Free and will fight anyone who tries to oppres him? I never harmed anyone on my golem ship and I helped people and miners alike. I also said they will be fed and protected.

[Gigapuddi420]

I'm not here to rule on your complaint, just offering what I witnessed as a player in that round. The first thing that came to mind while you were shouting over the radio is that you wanted to shelter and work with the enemies of the station including people who's very end goal is summon Nar'sei and consume all life. The station and corperation hadn't at that point done anything to antagonize you and it's not like you were offering a safe haven to all, but rather specifically asking for enemies of the corporation. Those enemies can include actual communists, terrorists and literal death cults. It's one thing to say you're a safe haven for the oppressed; it's a whole other thing to be specifically asking for the antagonists. It's also kind of fail RP to immediately know how 'bad' the contracts are with the corporation and use that as a basis for your aggression against the station as a neutral and peaceful role. You only just formed on the lavaland ship, you know jack shit about your surroundings.

[Ghilker]

I mean I just looked it up above from parsed logs on scrubby. You were even saying that cultists could make a base with you. Not sure how to take that as anything but allying yourself with antags.

Have you read the workers contract of nanotrasen in the lawyer office? Arent free golems Free and will fight anyone who tries to oppres him? I never harmed anyone on my golem ship and I helped people and miners alike. I also said they will be fed and protected.

Were you oppressed by the CMO in a way that he started a conflict with you like attacking you with the intention to kill you, or you blatantly use the excuse of being a "free" golem just to attack him (and it seems that you started the conflict) just to self antag because of "roleplay"?

From the wiki

Sometimes one of these ships may end up crashing in Lavaland. These golems, should they wake up from hibernation, will effectively be free of any master, and will usually mine and eventually build their own R&D department. They are peaceful unless disturbed.

[n00bllna]

I'm not here to rule on your complaint, just offering what I witnessed as a player in that round. The first thing that came to mind while you were shouting over the radio is that you wanted to shelter and work with the enemies of the station including people who's very end goal is summon Nar'sei and consume all life. The station and corperation hadn't at that point done anything to antagonize you and it's not like you were offering a safe haven to all, but rather specifically asking for enemies of the corporation. Those enemies can include actual communists, terrorists and literal death cults. It's one thing to say you're a safe haven for the oppressed; it's a whole other thing to be specifically asking for the antagonists. It's also kind of fail RP to immediately know how 'bad' the contracts are with the corporation and use that as a basis for your aggression against the station as a neutral and peaceful role. You only just formed on the lavaland ship, you know jack shit about your surroundings.

But Nanotrasen acts more as communist corporation and has lots of similarity with actuall communist goverments. Free golems made ships that traveled the universe they arent some ash lizards who dont know anything about outside. I wasnt an ash lizzard who has spears, but golem who has advanced golem creation disk and advance mining tools. They are not fresh spawned since they wake up from hibernation, and not to mention that liberator said to them "Yeah go do whatever."

[n00bllna]

I mean I just looked it up above from parsed logs on scrubby. You were even saying that cultists could make a base with you. Not sure how to take that as anything but allying yourself with antags.

Have you read the workers contract of nanotrasen in the lawyer office? Arent free golems Free and will fight anyone who tries to oppres him? I never harmed anyone on my golem ship and I helped people and miners alike. I also said they will be fed and protected.

Were you oppressed by the CMO in a way that he started a conflict with you like attacking you with the intention to kill you, or you blatantly use the excuse of being a "free" golem just to attack him (and it seems that you started the conflict) just to self antag because of "roleplay"?

From the wiki

Sometimes one of these ships may end up crashing in Lavaland. These golems, should they wake up from hibernation, will effectively be free of any master, and will usually mine and eventually build their own R&D department. They are peaceful unless disturbed.

"Usually" doesnt mean always since for example I was more hunting than mining. Cant build R&D since after all ORM arent working for probably 6 day straight
Let me citate you "NEXT"
P.S. He killed me 2 times after all probably cant read too

[Not-Dorsidarf]

If he killed you and you used that as justification to kill him when you spawned in as a fresh golden shell then you just admitted to metagaming, which is against the server rules.

[n00bllna]

If he killed you and you used that as justification to kill him when you spawned in as a fresh golden shell then you just admitted to metagaming, which is against the server rules.

Another guy not reading good job A+ for effort. Cloth golem respawn in same body if they are not killed by fire. Lets not mention this guy is an admin

[Not-Dorsidarf]

You never mentioned that you were a cloth golem, wiseass. We aren't psychic.

Also that was just an aside since this is such obviously killbait/self antag behaviour on an entirely new level

[n00bllna]

You never mentioned that you were a cloth golem, wiseass. We aren't psychic.

Also that was just an aside since this is such obviously killbait/self antag behaviour on an entirely new level

Round ID exist for a reason so you can read it and check it. First time died by rule of engangment since after all I pushed him they ganked me I fought back and died. 2nd Death was without any meaning while I was healing my self in medbay. By rules of engangment I had every right to kill him. Please explain me how is this self-antaging? Is this the same claim as guy above saying breaking windows is self-antag? This isnt a complaint about ban appeal this is a complaint how an admin doesnt take his job seriosly, doesnt read, not knowing lore in RP game ect... Maybe its my mistake to assume that admin would read the logs, know rules ect... at least and admin above you is acting like an admin unlike some people

[Gigapuddi420]

this is a complaint how an admin doesnt take his job seriosly, doesnt read, not knowing lore in RP game ect

Lore literally doens't matter though. The policy on lavaland roles is that you follow your flavor text and your flavor text states golems are peaceful and neutral to the station. Roleplaying isn't a excuse for ignoring that.

As for how Jimmius handled it, I have no complaint personally. Act like a antag, get treated like one (yet you don't become one).

[capn_monkeypaw]

[img]https://i.ibb.co/N2XLfSN/che-cloth-golem.png[/img]

"Arent free golems Free and will fight anyone who tries to oppres him?"

[n00bllna]

this is a complaint how an admin doesnt take his job seriosly, doesnt read, not knowing lore in RP game ect

Lore literally doens't matter though. The policy on lavaland roles is that you follow your flavor text and your flavor text states golems are peaceful and neutral to the station. Roleplaying isn't a excuse for ignoring that.

As for how Jimmius handled it, I have no complaint personally. Act like a antag, get treated like one (yet you don't become one).

Lore does matter in a role playing game thoug. My job description actually says that "They are peaceful unless disturbed" and my flavor text also say "Yeah go do whatever.". By that principle I could have killed everything that walked on lavaland because of my flavor text yet I never killed anyone expect cmo because after all he killed me 2 times. Also like I said to admin in PM "If you attack neutral mob will it not fight back"

[n00bllna]

[img]https://i.ibb.co/N2XLfSN/che-cloth-golem.png[/img]

"Arent free golems Free and will fight anyone who tries to oppres him?"

Best image I saw in years. Would be great if you could have this t-shirt in game

[Gigapuddi420]

Lore does matter in a role playing game thoug. My job description actually says that "They are peaceful unless disturbed" and my flavor text also say "Yeah go do whatever.". By that principle I could have killed everything that walked on lavaland because of my flavor text

No, you really couldn't, a lot of policy threads have covered this subject and golems are peaceful by nature. They aren't allowed to attack people unless provoked. While it is true your masters told you to do whatever, it's still clearly stated you are peaceful unless disturbed. A peaceful being doesn't just up and decide to kill everything around it. Meanwhile I should probably explain how bans on lavaland work. It's just one category which includes all lavaland ghost spawner roles, there is no way to ban from lavaland golem exclusively. The idea is also that if you can't handle one lavaland ghost role, you're probably going to have issues with the other.

[n00bllna]

Lore does matter in a role playing game thoug. My job description actually says that "They are peaceful unless disturbed" and my flavor text also say "Yeah go do whatever.". By that principle I could have killed everything that walked on lavaland because of my flavor text

No, you really couldn't, a lot of policy threads have covered this subject and golems are peaceful by nature. They aren't allowed to attack people unless provoked. While it is true your masters told you to do whatever, it's still clearly stated you are peaceful unless disturbed. A peaceful being doesn't just up and decide to kill everything around it. Meanwhile I should probably explain how bans on lavaland work. It's just one category which includes all lavaland ghost spawner roles, there is no way to ban from lavaland golem exclusively. The idea is also that if you can't handle one lavaland ghost role, you're probably going to have issues with the other.

It is ghost role yes, but some people like to play it from very start after all since you arent bothered by people and can generaly do what you like. Problem rises since nor did I harm anyone on lavaland and was helping people. By rules of engagment my 1st death was reasonable after all I shoved they attacked I fought back and died. My 2nd death was unreasonable since after all after my 1st death I did nothing to him. After I respawned I was still in morgue and I found a stunrod and stuned him when he entered (not to mention that he attacked me first with resonator before I stunned him) and I killed him. He complained to admins and oh boy not to be rude but it sounded like I was talking to a brick wall with inteligance ironicly of brick wall.
EDIT: I also showed him since he raised his weapon which is by rules of engagment

[Jimmius]

lol
I didn't ban you because you killed the CMO, I killed you becacuse you antagonized the CMO by smashing the windows to the medbay sec post, and threatening to kill him when he asked you to stop. Then, when he took out his baton, you instigated the fight by tabling him and stunning him. Then you escalated to lethals by hitting him with your resonator. He then stunned and killed you. Every step of the way from first encounter to lethal attacks, you were the one to escalate. As a golem, you are neutral to the crew. Neutral meaning: don't go out of your way to piss them off and attack them when they get mad at you. I don't give a toss about your personal RP justifications for your actions, and I'm still baffled by the idea of a communist megacorporation, especially one that exists entirely to make money, pays it's employees with money, and charges it's employees money to buy things. I admit this might be failrp on my part however.
Anyway, after getting your shit kicked in for entirely justified reasons, you then revived and began calling for a (capitalist, apparently) revolution, or more specifically, you wanted the golems to blow up every shuttle and kill any crewmember they could see. You then returned to medbay (to get healed, apparently) at which point the CMO murdered you again, for obvious reasons.
Finally, you revived a third time, tracked down the CMO, and murdered and spaced him.
If at any point you had said anything along the lines of "yeah it's a little over the line, sorry" or "i'm a tiny baby who thinks NT is a communist megacorp" then I would probably have left it as a note. But being steadfast that you didn't do anything remotely over the line was what ultimately made me decide on a weekban from ghostroles. You then spent the next half an hour posting in OOC about how much of a dumb idiot I am (you've got me there, I'll admit) and about how NT is communist, to which everyone rightly dunked on you.
In conclusion, lol

[n00bllna]

lol
I didn't ban you because you killed the CMO, I killed you becacuse you antagonized the CMO by smashing the windows to the medbay sec post, and threatening to kill him when he asked you to stop. Then, when he took out his baton, you instigated the fight by tabling him and stunning him. Then you escalated to lethals by hitting him with your resonator. He then stunned and killed you. Every step of the way from first encounter to lethal attacks, you were the one to escalate. As a golem, you are neutral to the crew. Neutral meaning: don't go out of your way to piss them off and attack them when they get mad at you. I don't give a toss about your personal RP justifications for your actions, and I'm still baffled by the idea of a communist megacorporation, especially one that exists entirely to make money, pays it's employees with money, and charges it's employees money to buy things. I admit this might be failrp on my part however.
Anyway, after getting your shit kicked in for entirely justified reasons, you then revived and began calling for a (capitalist, apparently) revolution, or more specifically, you wanted the golems to blow up every shuttle and kill any crewmember they could see. You then returned to medbay (to get healed, apparently) at which point the CMO murdered you again, for obvious reasons.
Finally, you revived a third time, tracked down the CMO, and murdered and spaced him.
If at any point you had said anything along the lines of "yeah it's a little over the line, sorry" or "i'm a tiny baby who thinks NT is a communist megacorp" then I would probably have left it as a note. But being steadfast that you didn't do anything remotely over the line was what ultimately made me decide on a weekban from ghostroles. You then spent the next half an hour posting in OOC about how much of a dumb idiot I am (you've got me there, I'll admit) and about how NT is communist, to which everyone rightly dunked on you.
In conclusion, lol

Smashed 1 window not windows, threaten to kill him when he took out weapon not before than so you got order mixed up but its okay since I undersand people who have disabilities since you clearly showed in your pm. You not only dont know about politics but I can recommend if you are intrested some books to help you understand difference between capitalism communis corporatism ect... since you dont know difference. On top of that I would recommend once you are playing to check lawyer office for workers contract and to please paste me the contents of it since you dont know they exist ptobably. I followed my rules of engangment to the letter and with my first death I could call him whatever I want on radio since after all it was at max escalation. Finaly since you havent read and probably dont know to read since I still tand by the word I said that you have IQ of a room temperature that I was trapped in morgue and that I didnt track shit no one he entered there and attacked me first then I stunned him. Not only I am intrigued by lack of knowlege of game lore, differences of political ideologies (communist is different from socialist, one oppreses workers so they all have same shoes same haircuts, oppresed religion, culture and ect while other gives them same rights as ruling class, national socialist- party ideology that branched from socialist where everyone is same and have same righs except inferior races), but also your tone of your way of talking. Nobody actually debunked me since Nanotrasen is basicly oppresing workers since if you read lawyer contracts you would know but then again I doubt your reading skills. There is difference between admin, moderator and helper. You clearly have no knowlege of being admin and would recommend you be helper since after all admin is a serious role and responsibility. Also "yeah it's a little over the line, sorry" or "i'm a tiny baby who thinks NT is a communist megacorp" just shows that you are a powerhungry idiot who doesnt like his opinion chalanged and is always "right". Do feel free to contact me about books when you learn how to read

[Jimmius]

damn i can honestly say that when i banned you i did not expect a 2000 word essay on the differences between political ideologies but written in a block of text with no formatting

[n00bllna]

damn i can honestly say that when i banned you i did not expect a 2000 word essay on the differences between political ideologies but written in a block of text with no formatting

Spoiler:

well I expected someone with a brain but life is a tough one

[capn_monkeypaw]

Feel free to put down the shovel and stop digging at any time, bub.

[Jimmius]

damn i can honestly say that when i banned you i did not expect a 2000 word essay on the differences between political ideologies but written in a block of text with no formatting

Spoiler:

well I expected someone with a brain but life is a tough one

I'll have you know that I have a very powerful brain, i use it to control my fists and legs

[Nervere]

This is not a complaint, it's a ban appeal. Moved.

[Jimmius]

oh nice this is a ban appeal and not a complaint now.

i'm denying this. headmins may choose to overrule.

[n00bllna]

This is not a complaint, it's a ban appeal. Moved.

"The issue with admin"
I put it in right place since I am not complaining for ban but for admin for his lack of game lore and his behaviour. I see no reason why you moved my tread

[iksyp]

I put it in right place since I am not complaining for ban but for admin for his lack of game lore [knowledge]

no player nor admin cares about lore because everything in ss13 is schrodingers canon
most of the "lore" we have is either fluff text that could be changed at a maintainers whim or wiki pages that haven't been updated in years

Using game lore as an excuse doesn't work either, as the free golems were A) created by a NT scientist who literally told them to fuck off, B) have very little to no knowledge of how NT functions and C) have the directive to try and stay neutral to the station, which, as stated numerous times, you failed to do by actively trying to shelter enemies of the station because "NT bad"

oh and I'm pretty sure it says somewhere free golems only care about golem oppression and noone else but don't quote me on that

sorry if im peanut posting but i have little self control when it comes to threads of this caliber

[Hulkamania]

This appeal has been resolved by the banning administrator and I'm locking the thread now before it devolves into Road Warrior style anarchy.