[necromanceranne]theunlovedrock - Posted by Rock

[confused rock]

BYOND account: theunlovedrock
Character name: Is-A-LIzard
Ban type: server
Ban length: 3 days from 2020-02-05
Ban reason: (MANUEL)In a petty dispute over a stolen janicart, got a security officer involved in arresting the person they were having an argument with and then cut of the persons limbs with a chainsaw while they were arrested. Seemed to believe this was equal punishment despite the fact that they had cleaned up the persons floor art several times with the cart. They also cut off extra limbs because the person was defending themselves from having their limbs cut off. Your behaviour is dreadful. Don't thing this will fly on Manuel.
Time ban was placed: 2020-02-05 23:47:18
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 129698
Your side of the story: Drive over cat's graffiti which automatically cleans it several times over the course of about a minute, several because they were fixing it almost as fast as I was driving over it. said graffiti was about 4 letters and some scribbles on the side, was in the hallway next to an actual bloody mess I was dealing with. Cat grabs the cart, I spend a few minutes looking for it- check maint in the direction I saw them going with my cart, check every unlocked dorm, check escape, eventually I pda security about it, saying I just need my cart back. Once I get to security after they have them in brig cat is entirely uncooperative with me or security, just insulting me for cleaning. I acquire a chainsaw just sort of lying around in the hallway and tell the cat if they don't fess up by the time they're out of that cell I'm going to cut their arm off. To my surprise security actually lets me into brig and then into the cell with the chainsaw, egging me on. Cat just calls me mean and I slash at their arm. First hit dismembers it. Back off and give them a chance to talk, but the first thing they do is shove the chainsaw out of my hands in a 2x2 + 1x1 space. I feel threatened and, forgetting that they can't saw me back with one arm, slash at them to avoid them killing me with the same chainsaw. This removes the second arm. few seconds later, the Cat instantly dies in a way that is entirely not my fault- as far as I know, the cat due to nanites or something died from having massive amounts of brain damage.
Why you think you should be unbanned:

First off, The reason for the ban is awful. I'm not going to consider the bias in it as that's standard ban reason stuff, but one stuck out to me. The way it describes the "argument" makes it sound like I broke into the brig cell and cut off two limbs (it says plural) just to spite them. Then I cut off their other two limbs (still plural!) to defend myself from the threat that had at most one arm and one leg. This is ridiculous.

I wish to stress that my intent was not to get revenge for stealing my cart, but rather, to get my cart back. I had no other way to locate the cart, and there's only one motorized janicart that can ever be found- something the first admin who talked to me didn't seem to understand even after I stated it.

I see how from a roleplay perspective cutting off someone's limbs because they won't give you what you want is insane- before finding the saw, my plan if I had to resort to such an interrogation was to give them swirlies. This wasn't viable in the brig environment. There may have been other ways to threaten them, and I should've chosen those- if I knew it wouldn't work. But in the situation they left me in, with the cat being entirely uncooperative left me no other options. And I didn't expect I would actually be cutting off any arms, up until my first chainsaw hit was a dismemberment - from a roleplay perspective, they had no reason not to listen to the threat. Even if their graffiti was more important to them than their arms (which wouldn't make sense since they were able to replace it in mere seconds) then they still weren't solving anything, as I had other ways to clean it up. The only reason to keep the cart hidden was because they were the one who wanted revenge, while I wanted a return to the status quo- though it'd be a lie to say I wasn't angry. From an OOC perspective, though, chances are I'm not an antagonist- my threat has to be empty, as if I do cut off the limbs they can simply ahelp me, they might've thought, Therefore leaving me with no options to get my cart back. If both of us acted rationally then it would've ended with us both leaving brig fine- but since they acted insane enough to not value their own limbs, I had to either give up or act insane enough to remove a limb after threatening to remove it if demands were not met.

It's not as if I wasn't trying to deal with the problem reasonably. My first idea was to just look for the cart, but when my search failed I asked security to deal with the minor thief, and I can't think of a more calm reaction than that. You can't really suggest they would've given it back if I talked to them- they never tried to contact me with my pda or otherwise as far as I knew, and they refused the station's security force telling them to fess up. I didn't come to brig chainsaw in hand- if they wanted to reason for it, they could've told me. The last idea was to threaten them physically- but when they were completely unwilling to bend to the threat, and security egged me on and locked me in a cell with them, I was left with no options besides go back on my word or act on the threat that I never planned to and never should've been in the situation where I had to act on . Even then they chose to react to proof that I would maim them with trying to fight back against me, the only one capable of wielding the only weapon in the room. This is insane from any perspective except "if he fights back that'll look really bad oocly"


If I recall correctly there was also pressure from other admins on top of time constraints of the banning admin so I think this should at least be reviewed in a more objective light now that everyone has cooled down and the banning admin isn't as pressured. Unfortunately no one else wanted to contest the ban (even me) but I think it needs to at least be toned down given the circumstances and needs to be reviewed through a more official channel.

Lastly, I don't understand the rationale behind three days specifically- that's 1.5 days for each arm. I know this is a significant jump up from lrp, but this isn't hrp either. It's not like I ran up to someone and cut off their arms unprovoked, nor that they pissed me off so much that I cut off their arms (well it does look like that). It's that I said I would cut off their arm if my irreplaceable item wasn't returned to me, and to my surprise they'd rather lose the arm than return it.

Yeah thas it.

[Lazengann]

I made fun of rock in the NTR hut using the logs so it'd be unfair if I didn't share them. The logs feature everything between rock, uomo, and the security officer.

https://tgstation13.download/dip/discordimageproxy.php/attachments/ ... d_logs.txt

[annoyinggreencatgirl]

Drive over cat's graffiti which automatically cleans it several times over the course of about a minute, several because they were fixing it almost as fast as I was driving over it.

Exhibit A of your intentions: knowingly and purposely driving over a harmless sign for a room I built, literally as you see me remaking it. Gee, almost like I didn't want it to be erased and this was plainly obvious to you.

said graffiti was about 4 letters and some scribbles on the side, was in the hallway next to an actual bloody mess I was dealing with.

You cleaned the hallway and general area (which was an actual mess, the first pass) basically spotlessly clean then came back multiple times specifically to erase the sign, nothing else, then leave the area. This was a two tile wide hallway and even if you were there after the first pass to legitimately clean other things (and, you weren't), you could easily have driven around the sign which was only written on the bottom tiles but you went straight for it. You popped on screen, drove over it and cleaned nothing else in the hallway, then left expediently 2-3 times. You legit came back only to see if I had rewritten the sign and to fuck with it again. You did the aforementioned so efficiently that my multiple attempts at verbally asking you to stop were pointless because you were already back offscreen the direction you came from before I was halfway through typing, and I just tapped exit and gave up, tried to fix the sign, go back to hanging out. Rinse and repeat a couple times and I resolve to just take and hide your stupid cart.

Cat grabs the cart, I spend a few minutes looking for it- check maint in the direction I saw them going with my cart, check every unlocked dorm, check escape, eventually I pda security about it, saying I just need my cart back.

I'm going to go ahead and propose that you're just completely lying here. It was roughly a minute or less between me taking the cart and you contacting security over it, and part of that time consisted of you stopping to eat, and also coming back to throw a cleaning grenade at the room/sign. Naturally in contacting sec you conveniently leave out mentioning to them that it got stolen because you were being an ass, and paint (heh, paint) yourself as some innocent victim who was randomly assaulted and mugged.

First off, The reason for the ban is awful. I'm not going to consider the bias in it as that's standard ban reason stuff, but one stuck out to me. The way it describes the "argument" makes it sound like I broke into the brig cell and cut off two limbs (it says plural) just to spite them. Then I cut off their other two limbs (still plural!) to defend myself from the threat that had at most one arm and one leg. This is ridiculous.

I wish to stress that my intent was not to get revenge for stealing my cart, but rather, to get my cart back. I had no other way to locate the cart, and there's only one motorized janicart that can ever be found- something the first admin who talked to me didn't seem to understand even after I stated it.

[2020-02-05 22:59:08.258] PDA: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) (PDA: janitor PDA to Martin Cabello (Security Officer)) "or maybe saw their limbs off. I really need that cart." (Fore Primary Hallway (114, 156, 2))

[2020-02-05 23:06:37.599] SAY: Uomo91/(Kat Green) "I askeds you nots to ruin my sign lizard." (Brig (111, 166, 2))
[2020-02-05 23:06:41.365] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "you didn't." (Fore Primary Hallway (113, 164, 2))
[2020-02-05 23:06:42.166] SAY: Uomo91/(Kat Green) "And you did it anyway for funs." (Brig (111, 166, 2))
[2020-02-05 23:06:43.202] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I'll fucking do it again." (Fore Primary Hallway (113, 164, 2))[/code]

[2020-02-05 23:06:48.370] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "I'll cut your fucking arms off if I don't get my cart." (Fore Primary Hallway (113, 164, 2))
[2020-02-05 23:06:55.580] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "That's not a threat, that's a promise." (Fore Primary Hallway (113, 164, 2))

[2020-02-05 23:07:59.709] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "NO MORE ARMS!!" (Fore Primary Hallway (113, 164, 2))
[2020-02-05 23:08:01.865] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "NO MORE FINGERS!!" (Fore Primary Hallway (113, 164, 2))
[2020-02-05 23:08:05.204] SAY: The unloved rock/(Is-A-Lizard) "ALL KAT'S FAULT!!" (Fore Primary Hallway (113, 164, 2))

I see how from a roleplay perspective cutting off someone's limbs because they won't give you what you want is insane- before finding the saw, my plan if I had to resort to such an interrogation was to give them swirlies. This wasn't viable in the brig environment. There may have been other ways to threaten them, and I should've chosen those- if I knew it wouldn't work. But in the situation they left me in, with the cat being entirely uncooperative left me no other options. And I didn't expect I would actually be cutting off any arms, up until my first chainsaw hit was a dismemberment - from a roleplay perspective, they had no reason not to listen to the threat. Even if their graffiti was more important to them than their arms (which wouldn't make sense since they were able to replace it in mere seconds) then they still weren't solving anything, as I had other ways to clean it up. The only reason to keep the cart hidden was because they were the one who wanted revenge, while I wanted a return to the status quo- though it'd be a lie to say I wasn't angry. From an OOC perspective, though, chances are I'm not an antagonist- my threat has to be empty, as if I do cut off the limbs they can simply ahelp me, they might've thought, Therefore leaving me with no options to get my cart back. If both of us acted rationally then it would've ended with us both leaving brig fine- but since they acted insane enough to not value their own limbs, I had to either give up or act insane enough to remove a limb after threatening to remove it if demands were not met.

You keep insisting you had "no other option" to get the cart back but to delimb me. Putting aside how profoundly, unbelievably retarded this statement is, I'd like to ask; why did you never actually ASK me for it? Why did you never once even think of saying "OK I'll leave your sign alone if you give me the cart back." ? Do explain to me how I was the one refusing to budge in this situation, can't wait to hear this.

It's hilarious that one of the hills you're dying on is that I should have been expected to play along with your rulebreaking threats out of some misplaced sense of roleplay integrity when you made exactly zero effort to mediate the gay time-wasting fight that you started to begin with.

It's not as if I wasn't trying to deal with the problem reasonably.

Yes, it is exactly as if that.

You can't really suggest they would've given it back if I talked to them- they never tried to contact me with my pda or otherwise as far as I knew

After what you did I was under no obligation nor inclination to deal with your ass beyond what I absolutely had to, and had you come back and asked for the cart, and said you would leave me alone, that would have been the end of it. If post my arrest you had said in the brig "give me the cart, and you can keep your arms and I'll leave your sign alone!" that would have been the end of it.

I just quoted you explicitly saying you'd run over the sign again even if you got your cart back... A true mystery as to why I didn't "cooperate" huh?

As long as you continue to feign innocence and insist you didn't mess up the sign to be a little asshole, then giddily rode a wave of lies and shit "escalation" to mess up my round under the false pretense of being deprived of some GAMECHANGING IRREPLACEABLE item (which the janicart is very much not), I probably have nothing more to say to you in here and won't reply further. I was sympathetic to your ban length at first but at this point I'm pretty happy you took a vacation.

[annoyinggreencatgirl]

Also I was wrong, hallway was three tiles wide.

Spoiler:

[confused rock]

Why did I never ask you for it? Because you stole it, and calling security is the reasonable scenario. If you were willing to give it back at all, you would've made an offer while arrested, or before getting your arms sawed off.

[confused rock]

ok ban's over I don't really feel like doing this any more

[NecromancerAnne]

If you are going to be so indecisive about whether you are going to appeal what remains a note at this point, then I will simply lock the thread. We are two appeals deep and I don't really care whether you want this to be appealed or not. Stop wasting everyones time.

If there is anything to be gathered from this appeal process being such a mess as to have had to have been started by a third party on your behalf, it's that you do not think much of the administrative process, you don't care about the rules given an earlier remark in the round this ban took place is anything to indicate where you speak poorly of the rules (not that you aren't entitled to a disagreement with them given they are mostly still in an experimental phase but it looks bleak given what happened), and you don't care about your own behaviour and the impact it has on others.

You belligerently inconvenience others and jump at that opportunity to start shit because you play to being such a hard done-by, miserable git. In this round specifically, you spent the first 20 minutes round start of you saying literally nothing in-game and salting in ooc. That really says a lot about you as a player. You only actively involved yourself in the round in question because you were provided an opportunity to mess someone up and set them up to be removed from round because your active ambivalence to others resulted in them taking issue with you, and when they stepped up to you, they fell hook line and sinker for the only thing you seem to actively give a shit about. Making others as miserable as you seem to be.

The note will be untouched and I'm just denying this appeal. I don't care to discuss this further with someone who doesn't care to commit to the process let alone even write his own appeal, given this is a literal copypaste of Cobby's with some minor alterations. Assuming of course that wasn't something you wrote yourself, in which case why didn't you appeal in the first place?

[Karp]

the ban may have been harsh but jesus christ don't resort to delimbing like it's a casual punishment, it can be borderline murder tier and you can permanently ruin another player's round depending on how it goes. You would've gotten in trouble regardless of server if that was your sum reason for delimbing the person that was already arrested for stealing your property.

Learn to bury the hatchet and try to work with people to get your shit back, friendliness is much better for getting people to work with you than being angry and bitter, the only way this would've been fine would be if they were attacking you with a lethal weapon or they stole a high value item which would allow you to attack them but dismembering someone in a cell over a janicart is a bit nuts.