[Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

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Dax Dupont
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[Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:36 pm #60768

Byond account and character name: HollaHollaFoADolla, lili-marlene honecker
Banning admin: stp
Ban type (What are you banned from?): All
Ban reason and length: http://i.imgur.com/RqyRKaS.png
Time ban was placed (including time zone): http://i.imgur.com/RqyRKaS.png
Your side of the story: So, viruses were going lose, first one was on touch, symptoms unknown, people panicing and command chat flooding my screen. Go to fix it, find another virus in the pandemic machine, note that it's airborne and shit. This virus was not seen yet before I went into viro, make 3 vaccine bottles, head out bump into viro, but give him the reason of doubt. Vacinate everyone, now the afforementioned virus pops up and I draw the conclusion that suddenly the virus that was in the machine was spreading outside. Both of them werent deadly I think, but very annoying at the very least. I knocked the viro down after making the second vacine and without cuffs and active security I put him in the disposal unit since otherwise he'd get away. STP asks why did I space him, he only released one virus. However the virus could only have come from virology and 99% of the time it's the viro that does this especially with custom viruses. The fact all the monkies were vomiting blood and shit he probably had other shit too.
Why you think you should be unbanned:
Even if I was wrong that he did it, I am still unsure who else it could be, it was a split second call with the entire station being sick and only me and mimedoctor running the whole station. The other heads were pleased this was solved.
Lynching the viro over shit like this was always acceptable, even if he didn't do it someone made sure to point all the evidence against him. Access, running around in a biosuit outside of viro all the time, virus in the machine, dying monkies all over viro, a lot bloodsmudges on the floor outide of medbay, the kind of ones made by blood grenades or splashing stuff. I really had to make the call because otherwise the whole station would have died if he had something more serious since medbay was understaffed as fuck.

I would like to add that I was doing a good job as CMO, like always man. I made a single mistake in the midst of chaos. Hardly deserves an insta ban.



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Sometinyprick
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Sometinyprick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:46 pm #60770

Yes I understand that the virologist is usually responsible for these sort of things. However your actions were very unreasonable, instead of arresting the virologist and questioning him you decided to baton him and stuff him down the disposals leading out to space. In this case the virologist knew about the diseases and was actively trying to find a cure until you spaced him.

I know the situation was not ideal and you were under a good deal of pressure and that's why you recieved a 12 hour ban instead of a 24h hour one.
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:51 pm #60774

ChrisTheThird wrote:Yes I understand that the virologist is usually responsible for these sort of things. However your actions were very unreasonable, instead of arresting the virologist and questioning him you decided to baton him and stuff him down the disposals leading out to space. In this case the virologist knew about the diseases and was actively trying to find a cure until you spaced him.

I know the situation was not ideal and you were under a good deal of pressure and that's why you recieved a 12 hour ban instead of a 24h hour one.

Kinda hard to arrest and question someone in virology with only a baton.
Also virologist "knew". Like can you find out who did make them logwise? Because who the hell else could have done it. I've only seen viro around virology all the time. Was kinda a clear cut case to me. Also even when questioning him, how the hell would you know.
I had 2 options when I saw him get into virology again, 1. Let him go freely and maybe catch him later with cable cuffs while he could spread diseases. 2. Batton him and get rid of him. This would eliminate the possibility of any other disease to be spread.
Arguably option 2 makes way more sense in my mind because either the whole station ends up dead or this one guy does.

After all ss13 is a cabin fever/paranoia simulator.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:41 pm #60802

Anybody with access to cargo is capable of ordering crates that have GBS and other things in them, and then splashing it on some random dude in the hallways.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:55 pm #60810

Saegrimr wrote:Anybody with access to cargo is capable of ordering crates that have GBS and other things in them, and then splashing it on some random dude in the hallways.

Custom "unknown" disease.
Not GBS.
Not anything from the crates.
As stated before.

However, yes technically it is possible to get a virus crate, gather all you need and get science to build a pandemic but that's such a tiny probability and looking at the viro room with all the blood vomiting monkies, syringes and beakers(that I spaced as well) laying around.. Also the fact that exact virus(the last one) was in the pandemic before we noticed people getting infected by it. There is no way you can have 100% proof, but virology well used, the virologist running around in a biosuit outside constantly, the virus being in the pandemic before release and all kinds of other things only points in the direction of the virologist. If it wasn't him someone put in considerable effort to make it look like the virologist did it.

I saw the virologist before the second virus too in the virology and let him go since it could have been a coincidence but after the second virus and the circumstances it was just way too suspicious, I had no way of detaining him, I had no security, I was one of two in medbay staff excluding him, He could have gone and released another more deadly virus as evidenced by the state of the monkey, my idea was to jump him before he did me, I saw the virology airlock toggling and made that choice. Didn't plan on it but made a split second decision, battoned him, was thinking to drag him away but with the decreased stun times it's hard to keep them down. So to prevent him escaping and potentially killing the entire station I spaced one of them. A ban is way over the top for this, a warning combined with gibbing my mob would have done too, however I honestly think that how SS13 is based on paranoia this was a pretty valid response to the circumstances, especially since none of my other actions were harmful, me and the mimedoctor saved several people, and harmed none aside from the guy that was a suspect and could have killed the entire goddamn station.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Sometinyprick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:12 pm #60813

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Also virologist "knew". Like can you find out who did make them logwise? Because who the hell else could have done it. I've only seen viro around virology all the time. Was kinda a clear cut case to me. Also even when questioning him, how the hell would you know.
I had 2 options when I saw him get into virology again, 1. Let him go freely and maybe catch him later with cable cuffs while he could spread diseases. 2. Batton him and get rid of him. This would eliminate the possibility of any other disease to be spread.
Arguably option 2 makes way more sense in my mind because either the whole station ends up dead or this one guy does.

After all ss13 is a cabin fever/paranoia simulator.


I do understand your point that part of the player mentality is to be paranoid. However the main problem was you simply went into virology baton-ed him down and launched him into space. It's not something as a head you should be doing and neither was it an action you had to take either. You could have quite easily beat him into critical and placed him inside of a straight jacket if you believed he was too dangerous to question normally. In his logs I could see no evidence of him trying to spread the disease at all by the way.

Really the main problem was that you spaced him when you had a variety of other options at your disposal. In regards to questioning you could have learned of his desire to actually cure the disease.
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:20 pm #60822

ChrisTheThird wrote:
AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Also virologist "knew". Like can you find out who did make them logwise? Because who the hell else could have done it. I've only seen viro around virology all the time. Was kinda a clear cut case to me. Also even when questioning him, how the hell would you know.
I had 2 options when I saw him get into virology again, 1. Let him go freely and maybe catch him later with cable cuffs while he could spread diseases. 2. Batton him and get rid of him. This would eliminate the possibility of any other disease to be spread.
Arguably option 2 makes way more sense in my mind because either the whole station ends up dead or this one guy does.

After all ss13 is a cabin fever/paranoia simulator.


I do understand your point that part of the player mentality is to be paranoid. However the main problem was you simply went into virology baton-ed him down and launched him into space. It's not something as a head you should be doing and neither was it an action you had to take either. You could have quite easily beat him into critical and placed him inside of a straight jacket if you believed he was too dangerous to question normally. In his logs I could see no evidence of him trying to spread the disease at all by the way.

Really the main problem was that you spaced him when you had a variety of other options at your disposal. In regards to questioning you could have learned of his desire to actually cure the disease.

Do the telescopic battons do damage? I don't generally use them, i stay away from harming people, admittedly not very robust. Otherwise I guess I have used the goddamn syringebox. Also has the click to remove straightjacket bug finally been fixed then? Was still there not too long ago where you'd take off your own straightjacket. However yes, if I had a toolbox I could crit him, probably fail to, but try at least, then cryo him, then straightjacket him and pray that exploit has been fixed and then interrogate him. I did something similar a long while ago and got yelled at that as well so...
I was already in virology making vaccines, just saw the airlocks cycle and dropped everything and hid around the corner to duke it out btw. I didn't go into virology to catch him. Impulsive decision, because as far as I know he'd see me in there again and use traitor stuff or whatever. Sort of a panic response, and then still a ban for a reasonably human response is kinda over the top.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Sometinyprick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:46 pm #60831

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Do the telescopic battons do damage? I don't generally use them, i stay away from harming people, admittedly not very robust. Otherwise I guess I have used the goddamn syringebox. Also has the click to remove straightjacket bug finally been fixed then? Was still there not too long ago where you'd take off your own straightjacket. However yes, if I had a toolbox I could crit him, probably fail to, but try at least, then cryo him, then straightjacket him and pray that exploit has been fixed and then interrogate him. I did something similar a long while ago and got yelled at that as well so...
I was already in virology making vaccines, just saw the airlocks cycle and dropped everything and hid around the corner to duke it out btw. I didn't go into virology to catch him. Impulsive decision, because as far as I know he'd see me in there again and use traitor stuff or whatever. Sort of a panic response, and then still a ban for a reasonably human response is kinda over the top.


It really depends, you did have reason to believe the virologist was dangerous and actively working against the station which means you would have been justified in apprehending him through any means possible. In terms of taking him down well once you bring someone down with a baton you can continue to hit them keeping them down and doing damage at the same time, in consideration to that particular bug with the straight jacket I believe you can no longer remove your own straight jacket. However spacing someone is something which should be done as a last resort and should not be done lightly and in this situation you took it too far by launching him into space.

EDIT: I'm referring to telescopic batons when I talk about "batons" by the way.
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:57 pm #60832

ChrisTheThird wrote:
AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Do the telescopic battons do damage? I don't generally use them, i stay away from harming people, admittedly not very robust. Otherwise I guess I have used the goddamn syringebox. Also has the click to remove straightjacket bug finally been fixed then? Was still there not too long ago where you'd take off your own straightjacket. However yes, if I had a toolbox I could crit him, probably fail to, but try at least, then cryo him, then straightjacket him and pray that exploit has been fixed and then interrogate him. I did something similar a long while ago and got yelled at that as well so...
I was already in virology making vaccines, just saw the airlocks cycle and dropped everything and hid around the corner to duke it out btw. I didn't go into virology to catch him. Impulsive decision, because as far as I know he'd see me in there again and use traitor stuff or whatever. Sort of a panic response, and then still a ban for a reasonably human response is kinda over the top.


It really depends, you did have reason to believe the virologist was dangerous and actively working against the station which means you would have been justified in apprehending him through any means possible. In terms of taking him down well once you bring someone down with a baton you can continue to hit them keeping them down and doing damage at the same time, in consideration to that particular bug with the straight jacket I believe you can no longer remove your own straight jacket. Spacing someone is something which should be done as a last resort and should not be done lightly and in this situation you took it too far by launching him into space.


Maybe, in my mind it seemed the most logical thing at the time. I can understand banning someone who murderbones for no reason, but come on, this was obviously in the best intent of protecting the station and yeah maybe if I had time to plan it I would have done it differently. I still think 12hrs for this shit is insane. Especially seeing my track record is relatively good considering the time I spent on ss13 servers. The only exception being when I fucked up in /vg/station when I was new. Making a mistake out of stressy situation and impulsive decision making caused by him entering virology vs actively breaking the rules and randomly killing someone. If the former happens often then yeah a ban is okay, but honestly for a honest to god mistake/overreaction most players would make 40 minutes into a round sitting out a few rounds is the max reasonable punishment, I wouldn't raise so much shit if it wasn't for the fact it was for 12 goddamn hours and then passing off that you did me a favor by saying it's half of what it is normal.
You are a tempadmin, and probably new and all, but you got to realise that 12 hours is too much for shit like this. I admit, I don't admin ss13 servers, and maybe my view of a decent admin policy is more based on admining in different games but eh. I still think this is too much. I am not sure if there's like a minimum ban amount specified but seeing you can half it then I am guessing there isn't one.

edit: Telescopic battons do harm then? I literally never tried to hurt someone with it so I thought they only knocked down compared the ones sec has.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:08 pm #60835

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:Anybody with access to cargo is capable of ordering crates that have GBS and other things in them, and then splashing it on some random dude in the hallways.

Custom "unknown" disease.
Not GBS.
Not anything from the crates.
As stated before.


I was under the assumption that you could just mix the GBS and brainrot bottles together to get the unknown, but I guess not.
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:14 pm #60841

Saegrimr wrote:
AdAstraPerAspera wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:Anybody with access to cargo is capable of ordering crates that have GBS and other things in them, and then splashing it on some random dude in the hallways.

Custom "unknown" disease.
Not GBS.
Not anything from the crates.
As stated before.


I was under the assumption that you could just mix the GBS and brainrot bottles together to get the unknown, but I guess not.


It will report both iirc.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Sometinyprick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:32 pm #60854

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Maybe, in my mind it seemed the most logical thing at the time. I can understand banning someone who murderbones for no reason, but come on, this was obviously in the best intent of protecting the station and yeah maybe if I had time to plan it I would have done it differently. I still think 12hrs for this shit is insane. Especially seeing my track record is relatively good considering the time I spent on ss13 servers. The only exception being when I fucked up in /vg/station when I was new. Making a mistake out of stressy situation and impulsive decision making caused by him entering virology vs actively breaking the rules and randomly killing someone. If the former happens often then yeah a ban is okay, but honestly for a honest to god mistake/overreaction most players would make 40 minutes into a round sitting out a few rounds is the max reasonable punishment, I wouldn't raise so much shit if it wasn't for the fact it was for 12 goddamn hours and then passing off that you did me a favor by saying it's half of what it is normal.
You are a tempadmin, and probably new and all, but you got to realise that 12 hours is too much for shit like this. I admit, I don't admin ss13 servers, and maybe my view of a decent admin policy is more based on admining in different games but eh. I still think this is too much. I am not sure if there's like a minimum ban amount specified but seeing you can half it then I am guessing there isn't one.

edit: Telescopic battons do harm then? I literally never tried to hurt someone with it so I thought they only knocked down compared the ones sec has.


Yes telescopic batons do damage.
For non-antag murder that results in someones permanent removal the ban time is usually twenty four hours if the players IC reasons for doing so were unreasonable that is. Not set in stone however and it can vary on the players response, ban history, intent and a variety of other things. In your case you acted unreasonably when you took someone out of the round over a suspicion and that's really not acceptable. The reason I didn't give you a twenty four ban was because I understand you believed the virologist was a traitor and your assumption of his guilt was not completely unreasonable. However the reason the ban was applied is due to the fact you took your paranoia to far and decided to outright space him. The whole point of the ban is to reinforce the idea that spacing someone or doing anything that would permanently remove someone from the round is unacceptable in most circumstances this one included.
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:45 pm #60856

Eh, can't really change a thing I guess, I generally try to shy away from harming for this exact reason.
Sorry to cause such a fuss about it I suppose.
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Saegrimr » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:00 pm #60861

To clarify, the telescopic batons only do damage if you're not on help intent, much like stun batons.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:01 pm #60863

Saegrimr wrote:To clarify, the telescopic batons only do damage if you're not on help intent, much like stun batons.

Thanks, good to know.

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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby Sometinyprick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:03 pm #60865

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Eh, can't really change a thing I guess, I generally try to shy away from harming for this exact reason.
Sorry to cause such a fuss about it I suppose.
See you guys tomorrow!

No need to be sorry. It's completely fine to argue if you feel a ban was unjustified or too extreme.
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Re: [Sometinyprick] HollaHollaFoADolla - 12hr ban

Postby peoplearestrange » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:16 pm #60960

Seeing as the ban expires soon, i'm resolving this.

If this was done in error or need more information please PM me.
Whatever
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