[NecromancerAnne] LynxJynx/James Jameson - Permaban for violating probation

[LynxJynx]

BYOND account: LynxJynx
Character name: James Jameson
Ban type: Server Ban
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from the server permanently - Stunned a detective arresting a wanted criminal who he had just arrested to free the criminal. Claimed that he did so only because it was specifically the person in question (William Dornan), and that they'd do the same for them. And that it was likely harmless and nobody got hurt. The person in question had beaten someone into crit.


When the detective took issue and chased him with his gun, LynxJynx returned fire.


This is specifically the kind of altercation that Shaps warned you to avoid. I'm sorry, but you've been given a considerable amount of warnings, second chances and probations. Particularly given that, in our conversation, you didn't truly believe Shaps' warnings held any weight. They do. Your recent history paints a picture of someone trying but unfortunately not getting there. Hopefully, on another server, you can turn yourself around and finally make the changes you need to make.
Time ban was placed: 2019-10-12 19:24:55
Round ID in which ban was placed: 121278 (However the round in which the events occurred that led to the ban was round 121272 as per Statbus)
Your side of the story: The best I can remember from what I could see in the logs and from memory was that I had started the round as cargotech and had been collecting budgets to make cargonia great again. I had seen Dornan being chased throughout the round and outside cargo an altercation occured between him and security and I stunned the security trying to detain him so he could get away. I was later notified by Anne after she had messaged that Dornan had beat someone into crit but at the time I had no knowledge of this. After this, the detective and one of the sec officers tried to detain/kill me (I say detain/kill as the detective was using his pistol with lethal rounds and the security officer was using laser shots as the logs I post below will show). While they detective and sec officer tried to detain/kill me I fired back with disabler shots on an energy gun that I cant quite remember where I got it from but I believe it was either from the officer while he was trying to detain Dornan or from the captain's locker. It was after this that Anne asked me to explain what had happened and after my conversation with Anne who got input from Shaps on the matter I was permabanned after the server had restarted for the next round.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I feel as though the ban against me was perfectly justified but having had some months to think on it I would like a chance to return to the community. As Anne noted in my ban there were indications that my behavior on the server had been getting better and that I had been trying to turn over a new leaf but I hadn't quite gotten there. Additionally, in my notes, it was also noted by another admin Exavere that my behavior had been improving and in the months leading up to this I got a positive note from Draura for teaching toxins (which had been one of my favorite roles along with learning atmos) to players during a round in which I was sent as a CentCom ordinance instructor. I believe that, given a bit more time, I could of had a more positive impact on the server as I was striving to try to improve but unfortunately got into a situation that Shaps had warned me against which resulted in my ban. I acknowledge that during my 6 months on the server I racked up a lot of notes for some very bad things and im willing to accept that these will most likely prevent me from being unbanned, but I am hoping that you are willing to give me a second chance in the form of maybe a probationary period to try to come back to the server before deciding to keep me permabanned for good
References of good conduct: I have not played extensively on any other SS13 servers, I did play several rounds on Goon Station but as it was such a different system from TG I did not end up sticking around as I did not want to invest a lot of time into trying to learn a completely new code base.

Combat Logs from the round in which the bad stuff went down

Spoiler:

06:11:44 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has stunned Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) (NEWHP: 100) (94, 143, 2) Central Primary Hallway
06:11:44 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:44 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:44 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:44 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:45 ATTACK Toedstewie007/(Derek Westbrook) has shaken FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) (NEWHP: 97.3) (59, 133, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:45 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:45 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:45 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:45 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:45 ATTACK *no key*/(Officer Beepsky) has stunned FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) (NEWHP: 97.3) (59, 133, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:46 ATTACK Toedstewie007/(Derek Westbrook) has shaken Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) (NEWHP: 100) (59, 133, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:46 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:46 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:46 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:46 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:47 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:47 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:47 ATTACK Projectm02/(Gregori Raznicov) has transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/water (8u)) from the janitorial cart to [mop] (148, 107, 2) Custodial Closet
06:11:47 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:47 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:48 ATTACK Toedstewie007/(Derek Westbrook) has shaken FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) (NEWHP: 97.3) (59, 133, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:48 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has stunned Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) (NEWHP: 100) (102, 144, 2) Central Primary Hallway
06:11:48 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:48 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:48 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has fired at FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam from Port Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:48 ATTACK Toedstewie007/(Derek Westbrook) has shaken FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) (NEWHP: 97.3) (59, 133, 2) Port Primary Hallway
06:11:48 ATTACK Deepwoods/(William Moore) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 97.3) (58, 130, 2) Port Primary Hallway

snip a lot of unrelated eating and other people being murdered

06:12:04 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has stunned Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) (NEWHP: 100) (55, 135, 2) Arrival Shuttle Hallway

snip someone beating a window

06:12:41 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (104, 127, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:42 ATTACK H.I.Jinxy/(Ore Nyaski) has attacked [light switch] with the welding tool (94, 140, 2) Vacant Commissary
06:12:42 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [newscaster] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (97, 127, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:42 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 100) (97, 127, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:43 ATTACK H.I.Jinxy/(Ore Nyaski) has attacked [light switch] with the welding tool (94, 140, 2) Vacant Commissary
06:12:43 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (95, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:44 ATTACK H.I.Jinxy/(Ore Nyaski) has attacked [light switch] with the welding tool (94, 140, 2) Vacant Commissary
06:12:44 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (98, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:44 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (101, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:44 ATTACK H.I.Jinxy/(Ore Nyaski) has attacked [light switch] with the welding tool (94, 140, 2) Vacant Commissary
06:12:45 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has shot FreshestSoup/(William Dornan) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 97.3) (104, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:45 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 75) (104, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:45 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has shot Koolendary/(Cruz Kemerer) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 100) (106, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:45 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (107, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:45 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 56.3) (109, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:45 ATTACK H.I.Jinxy/(Ore Nyaski) has attacked [light switch] with the welding tool (94, 140, 2) Vacant Commissary
06:12:45 ATTACK Heyitsohjay/(Wilson Rash) has thrown the hand tele (110, 137, 2) Bridge
06:12:46 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Command Hallway (116, 127, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:46 ATTACK H.I.Jinxy/(Ore Nyaski) has attacked [light switch] with the welding tool (94, 140, 2) Vacant Commissary
06:12:46 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has shot Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100) (117, 127, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:47 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Command Hallway (118, 127, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:47 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Command Hallway (116, 127, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:48 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has shot Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100) (114, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:48 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Command Hallway (114, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:48 ATTACK BOBAMA/(Emmanuel Goldstein) has attacked *no key*/(Syndicate Operative) with energy cutlass (INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 70) (179, 88, 7) Listening Post
06:12:48 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Command Hallway (112, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:49 ATTACK BOBAMA/(Emmanuel Goldstein) has attacked *no key*/(Syndicate Operative) with energy cutlass (INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 40) (179, 88, 7) Listening Post
06:12:49 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has shot Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100) (109, 124, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:50 ATTACK LynxJynx/(James Jameson) has thrown the �X-01 MultiPhase Energy Gun (109, 124, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:50 ATTACK *no key*/(Syndicate Operative) has attacked BOBAMA/(Emmanuel Goldstein) (NEWHP: 93.3) (180, 88, 7) Listening Post
06:12:50 ATTACK BOBAMA/(Emmanuel Goldstein) has attacked *no key*/(Syndicate Operative) with energy cutlass (INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 10) (179, 88, 7) Listening Post
06:12:51 ATTACK *no key*/(Trent Haynes) attacked someone due to a Muscle Spasm (74, 154, 9) Small Freighter
06:12:51 ATTACK BOBAMA/(Emmanuel Goldstein) has attacked *no key*/(Syndicate Operative) with energy cutlass (INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 0) (179, 88, 7) Listening Post
06:12:52 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (104, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:52 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 31.3) (104, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:52 ATTACK Projectm02/(Gregori Raznicov) has transferred reagents (no reagents) from the bucket to [janitorial cart] (148, 107, 2) Custodial Closet
06:12:52 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (104, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:52 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 12.5) (104, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:53 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Command Hallway (104, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:55 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has fired at LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with the laser from Command Hallway (NEWHP: -12.5) (109, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:55 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with the laser (NEWHP: -12.5) (109, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:56 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has fired at LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with the laser from Command Hallway (NEWHP: -32.5) (109, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:56 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with the laser (NEWHP: -32.5) (109, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:56 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has fired at LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with the laser from Command Hallway (NEWHP: -47.5) (109, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:57 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has shot LynxJynx/(James Jameson) with the laser (NEWHP: -47.5) (109, 126, 2) Command Hallway
06:12:58 ATTACK *no key*/(Trent Haynes) attacked someone due to a Muscle Spasm (74, 154, 9) Small Freighter
06:13:04 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has handcuffed LynxJynx/(James Jameson) (NEWHP: -69.5) (108, 125, 2) Command Hallway
06:13:07 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has kicked LynxJynx/(James Jameson) (NEWHP: -73.5) (109, 124, 2) Command Hallway
06:13:07 ATTACK Tmtmtl30/(Sunwatcher) has grabbed LynxJynx/(James Jameson) passive grab (NEWHP: -73.5) (108, 125, 2) Command Hallway
06:13:07 ATTACK *no key*/(Trent Haynes) attacked herself to a Muscle Spasm (74, 154, 9) Small Freighter
06:13:08 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has kicked LynxJynx/(James Jameson) (NEWHP: -78) (109, 123, 2) Command Hallway
06:13:09 ATTACK Nitro2030ce/(John Bomb) has kicked LynxJynx/(James Jameson) (NEWHP: -92.2) (109, 123, 2) Command Hallway

I tried to bold everything that concerns what happened leading up to the ban in this round but I may have missed a few things

[NecromancerAnne]

Hey there, thanks for making the appeal.

As it stands, given your behaviour before the perma, there was a clear indication that you are capable of improving and keeping on the straight and narrow if you really set your mind to it. But there wasn't quite enough before your perma to truly say you had been making definitive improvement and only one instance wasn't quite enough for me despite it being a potential glimmer of hope.

6 months down the track, I'm still not entirely confident enough. I will say that if you are willing to put in the effort to change, I would recommend visiting a /tg/ downstream and playing there for a few months, say about 2 or 3 or more, and come back without significant incident if we asked for a brief reference of good conduct. Then, I would be more confident about lifting the ban. As a result, I will be happy to consider an appeal a few months down the line if you managed to get some play time on other servers, so don't worry about the usual appeal limitations on permabans. The reference of good conduct is the most important thing for this appeal to be successful I think.

Some good recommendations for servers might be Beestation, Yogstation, maybe Fulpstation. They're servers that at one point of another split from /tg/'s codebase and therefore will play fairly similarly. I can't say if their rules are similar, but if you can follow the rules on one of these servers, you shouldn't have any issue with our own.

Does that sound like a reasonable compromise to you?

[LynxJynx]

I believe that it is a reasonable compromise and can understand why, for a ban such as this one, you would feel much better. However, one of the other reasons I have been hesitant to try to join another SS13 community in order to get a good recommendation is that I feel it would be very artificial- as though im just playing there for a few months in order to try to move on to a different server.

Even though, as I have no recommendations, there is no reason for you to suspect that I have improved as a player, I would really like to be given another chance prove myself on TG.

A counter compromise I would give you is that, if you were to approve this appeal now, I am back on a 2-3 month probationary period where if I was to be a shitty player again I would be permabanned and the fact that I was given a second chance AND THEN was still horrible would be noted for any future ban appeals. In this case, my shitty behavior would all but guarantee that I am never allowed back on the server. This would also mean I would be given 2-3 months to show good behavior on TG the server I know and love, rather than on an unfamiliar server and community such as YogStation.

(edited for clarity)

[NecromancerAnne]

I'm personally not super confident on setting a probation period given that before your ban you were already on one. I'll leave it to the headmins to decide if that is a workable course of action and if they would prefer to implement that as an alternative.

You are still welcome to the appeal once you get some hours in elsewhere either way.

[LynxJynx]

Is there anything else I might be able to do besides securing a recommendation from another server? I would really like to come back to TG and if it takes a few months of playing on another server as the only option I am willing to do so but the main reason im appealing this ban is that I have tried other servers and they haven't really clicked for me the same way TG did and investing 2 - 3 months of my time on another server with a different rule set and a different community just seems like overkill to me as then I would come back and have to adapt to a different rule set once I am back on TG.

I would ask that either you, or if you are not confident in unbanning me at this time, the headmins be lenient and let me try again on TG. If I fuck up again and continue to be a shit I fully accept that I am gone for good and in the grand scheme of things it is not as though giving me a second chance would be severely detrimental to the server as if I were to be a shitter I could be quickly dealt with.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

This might be a peanut so feel free to delete, but is this incident severe enough to break a "perma if you fuck up" probation?

Assuming the guy didn't know dornan was wanted for beating a guy up, it sounds as if he was just helping a friend as opposed to self-antagging. He didn't use lethals on the officers when they came for him so it's not like he broke the escalation vs security rule either.

To my knowledge "probation" isn't really a listed issue in the rules/policy so I thought I might as well bring up that there probably is room for some leniency even if a probation is pretty damning of itself.

[Vekter]

For the record, the probation was as stated:

Warned very explicitly to cut out any behavior that can lead to situations where they end up shooting at people in positions of power or otherwise acting in an antagonistic manner as a nonantag. Any further incidents should be considered a violation of this probation, and should be handled as a Rule 0 matter.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

For the record, the probation was as stated:

Warned very explicitly to cut out any behavior that can lead to situations where they end up shooting at people in positions of power or otherwise acting in an antagonistic manner as a nonantag. Any further incidents should be considered a violation of this probation, and should be handled as a Rule 0 matter.

Oh nevermind, completely disregard my point then that's an especially relevant probation ban then.

[LynxJynx]

I'd like to add to my previous comment as a few days have gone by. I tried following your suggestion of trying a TG downstream server with a similar code base and I have tried to play a few rounds on Beestation although it is very difficult for me to do so as Beestation servers are based in germany so I average 250+ ping while playing making the whole game feel choppy

[capn_monkeypaw]

Permaban appeals are generally only entertained after a year has passed.

While references of good conduct from other servers are not required to appeal successfully, they certainly increase your chances of doing so when you're appealing six months early.

We see no need to override Anne's decision.