[<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

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Timberpoes
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[<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

Postby Timberpoes » Mon May 25, 2020 8:11 pm #562741

BYOND account: Timberpoes
Character name: Rae Finkel
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 3 Days
Ban reason: "Part of the Mass Suicide/Ghost Sniping/IC in OOC destruction of round 137998"
Time ban was placed: 2020-05-25 19:46:43
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 137998
Your side of the story: I suicided on round start as a Geneticist on a round after Icebox went to 550% time dilation following a restart vote which took 8+ minutes to count down and successfully passed. After that, it was realised the map would just be Icebox again. For context, Icebox suffered from the following issue at the time this occured: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/51282
On the restart and new round, a map vote was put up and passed for Pubby while a bunch of people, myself included, went to the Chapel to suicide and get the round over with in the absence of any admin intervention at all.
I had sent an ahelp in the previous round asking for some admin intervention to remedy it the issue. The ahelp was not responded to for the 10+ minutes the round lasted after that point.
Furthermore, if the ban reason is also a note, then the note unfairly represents what I indivudally did. I did not ghost snipe, I did not IC in OOC. If the ban and note must remain, I'd like them to prepresent what I actually did. Suicide on round start as a non-command role.
Why you think you should be unbanned: Whether I feel the ban is justified or not is irrelvevant I guess. 3 days for using the suicide command as a Geneticist. This feels incredibly excessive.
References of good conduct: N/A

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/137 ... e=game.txt

My OOC and SAY for the round
Code: Select all
06:22:31   OOC   Timberpoes/(Timberpoes) "FUCK PUBBY BUT ALSO FUCK ICEBOX MORE"   (8, 174, 1)   start area
06:26:11   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "Someone is going to have the antag game of their lives here. Easiest greentexts ever."   (184, 134, 4)   Chapel
06:26:42   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "Larry Motherfucking Johnson with the welder tank party."   (181, 137, 4)   Chapel
06:27:35   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "THE MAN THE MYTH THE LEGEND"   (181, 137, 4)   Chapel
06:27:41   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "LARRY MOTHERFUCKING JOHNSON"   (180, 137, 4)   Chapel
06:30:03   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "I'M GONNA HAVE A GREAT MURDERBONE WIZARD ROUND -> Looks at chapel -> Everyone already dead."   (27, 78, 1)   Wizard's Den
06:31:40   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "TIME TO MURDERBO where the fuck is everyone?"   (138, 132, 4)   Bar
06:32:13   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "Suicide."   (146, 129, 4)   Starboard Primary Hallway
06:32:36   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "We're"   (130, 146, 4)   Dormitory Toilets
06:32:37   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "DUDE"   (130, 146, 4)   Dormitory Toilets
06:32:39   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "LEWD"   (130, 145, 4)   Dormitory Toilets
06:32:45   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "WE JUST WATCHED THE WIARD HAVE A PISS"   (113, 141, 4)   Central Primary Hallway
06:32:49   SAY   Timberpoes/(Rae Finkel) (DEAD) "We're monsters."   (128, 136, 4)   Central Primary Hallway



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Armhulen
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Re: [<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

Postby Armhulen » Mon May 25, 2020 8:29 pm #562743

I know this was one of the main reasons for the ban, people gathering in the chapel to mass suicide in OOC and you were one of the people who joined. It's not the whole story to change the note to "Suicide on round start as a non-command role."
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PostThis post was deleted by capn_monkeypaw on Mon May 25, 2020 8:43 pm.
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Timberpoes
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Re: [<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

Postby Timberpoes » Mon May 25, 2020 8:41 pm #562745

Armhulen wrote:I know this was one of the main reasons for the ban, people gathering in the chapel to mass suicide in OOC and you were one of the people who joined. It's not the whole story to change the note to "Suicide on round start as a non-command role."
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I understand that and I fully stated that in my appeal.

I did not take part in any of the OOC nonsense calling to suicide. Because other people were calling suicide in OOC, should that justify increasing the bans for those who didn't?

I was not arguing my ban was warranted or not. I said it was irrelevant either way.

I feel 3 days is excessive for suiciding. I didn't participate in the OOC rabble. There were plenty of IC messages about suiciding before I even died, which I also didn't participate in. I just suicided in the chapel, silently.

I don't feel my ban should be aggravated for the actions of other people that I didn't take any part in. You're quoting things other people said as context for why I have a 3 day ban for suiciding on round start.

I get that it was a silly thing to do. Immature too. But I typed the word suicide into the white bar at the bottom and I got a ban that is equivalent to killing 3 people as a non-antag when my note history is one accidental ICK OCK prior to now with no bans.

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Re: [<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

Postby TheMidnghtRose » Mon May 25, 2020 8:53 pm #562746

As there was a total of 19 bans from this round's incident. There will be cleanup on the mass ban. Non-chapel suicides are being lifted as I was trying to get a list of who suicidied, who participated in the IC in OOC, and the Ghost Sniping of the wizard. Chapel suicides that did not participate in the latter two are being moved to one day bans.
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Re: [<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

Postby Timberpoes » Mon May 25, 2020 8:57 pm #562748

Appreciated. Thank you for the quick response.

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Re: [<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

Postby Timberpoes » Mon May 25, 2020 10:34 pm #562761

Looks like my ban has now been reduced to a day. It's better than it was and I appreciate that however, stereotypical segue into why I don't fully appreciate it, I'm still not impressed that I got a day ban for choosing to suicide in the chapel instead of suiciding anywhere else on the station.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

Rule 5 precedents of Heads of Staff or converted antags suiciding are supposedly to be met with warnings, extending to bans for repeat behaviour.
Rule 0 should only be invoked by admins when it is in the best interests of the server.

It seems like an arbitrary thing when I did it silently. Wasn't involved in any conversation IC or OOC. If I'd taken 10 paces out of the chapel, I'd have been unbanned entirely?

It makes it seem that it's not that I sucided (because some others who suicided are unbanned entirely now), but that the location I suicided escalates this not from just being a "BWOINK Don't suicide cult, you idiot" or "Note: Suicide culted like an idiot" to a full on dayban with nothing in between.

I feel like that whole escalation has been skipped in favour of a Rule 0 ban instead of just a warning or even a severe note. For context, prior to this I have a note for a single ick ock. It was accidental and I accepted full responsbility for it at the time and apologised to the admin that bwoinked me.

I would personally argue that even with the context of what was going on, I just silently walked to the chapel and suicided, and would also argue that a day ban for that even in the context of whatever else was going on is excessive. I was not IC OCKING, ghosting the wizard in OOC or participating in anything IC and I would argue that note overall has little if no weight in deciding what the punishment should be.

Why even have this noting system at all if something as incredibly minor as what I did, within the context of what was happening at the time, escalates up to a full ban.

I would put it forward that my ban seems more like a "make an example out of people" ban than a ban reached following a logical process of eliminating lesser punishments as unsuitable based on the individual features of my case as a whole.

If Rose is not with me on this then, although my ban will likely be expired by the time any headmin can address this, I would like to put this forward for a second opinion from a headmin. I would request that my ban be reviewed on the specific merits unique to my case and appeal; that I was not ick ocking; that I was not inciting anything; that I only said one thing in OOC that was related to the map vote and was before the round even started; that everything else I said was as a ghost; that I commited suicide in the chapel; that I have a clean record except for an accidental ick ock note; that similar breaches of the rules such as suiciding when converted to a team antag can result in warnings extending to bans for repeat behaviour, of which this was not a repeat behaviour. I would submit that for all of these reasons, a ban is an over-escalated response to what I did.

[Edit] My note is still not representative of the ban, either.

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Re: [<TheMidnightRose>] <Timberpoes> - 3 day ban for suiciding on round start

Postby TheMidnghtRose » Thu May 28, 2020 11:38 pm #563128

I went ahead and fixed the note/ban reason
Wordlessly joined the suicide pact in chapel.
or something similar to that in effect.
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