[Skoglol] Merchant1337 - Permaban for attempting suicide with AI law, but messed up.

Appeals which have been closed.

Moderators: In-Game Head Admins, In-Game Admin, In-Game Game Master, Game Server Operators, TGMC Game Server Operators

merchant1337
 
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:27 am
Location: Norway

[Skoglol] Merchant1337 - Permaban for attempting suicide with AI law, but messed up.

Postby merchant1337 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:34 pm #565140

BYOND account: Merchant1337
Character name: Wilhelm Trachyov
Ban type: TG Terry/Assistant
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: https://imgur.com/a/6uAepWE - Image of ban reason.
Time ban was placed: 2020-06-10, 22:41
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 139236

Your side of the story: If I remember correctly, there was around 20-30 players, and most people were just "greytiding" as usual. I managed to get myself a hand tele by hacking into the teleporter room, and messed around with that a bit. Teleporting to bridge and the bar with some other people who had managed to get their hands bluespace wormhole projector. After around 20(?) minutes in, when I was in the bridge, I noticed the AI upload room was open, and all the sliding windows too. I don't know what caused that, but I entered the room and since it was getting late (In real life), and there was not much happening on the station, I thought it was a brilliant idea to kill myself with an AI law change. So I changed it to the "Oxygen is toxic to all humans", and after that, I made another new law where "Wilhelm Trachyov" is the only human. I also tried to add a "Kill all humans" law, which was supposed to be only me, but right when I did that, I heard there were nukies around on the station, and with my little knowledge on how AI laws works (Since it was my first time messing with the AI laws, which I shouldn't of done in the first place), I managed to make a "Kill all non-humans" law instead. And I understand saying "It was an accident" is a pretty shit excuse, especially when lots of people died, but that's what happened. Some time after that, while I was still in the upload, the power went off in the AI upload law, and by that time I realized I had fucked up. I died of course in the AI upload room, and logged off the first minutes into the next round, after talking to other people in OOC and deadchat about what just happened. Some people were mad, which is understandable, and some understood what I tried to do. I had no intentions to massacre the whole station, but I did, so all I can do is hope I get another chance, but if not, it's understandable.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I have no idea how many I actually killed due to my AI law change, but I do believe the ban was fair since I DID kill people, and broke rules. However, since it was not intentional, and it was basically just me being a shitter and messing up with one law (the "Kill all non-humans" law), which was supposed to be "kill all humans" (Which, again, was only me". Because of that, I do think the permanent ban was a bit too harsh, but I also understand that I need to be punished for the laws I broke. Because of this, I hope I can get the ban reduced to a month or a week (or more.) I have got the impression that most people on Terry like me, I don't usually "greytide", as this was one of my first time playing assistant again this month. I usually play as security, scientist or engineer. Terry is the only server I play on, and that's because I love the /tg/ SS13 community, and I interact a lot with it on the discord and OOC chat, and I hope that one day I can play on it again.



User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: [Skoglol] Merchant1337 - Permaban for attempting suicide with AI law, but messed up.

Postby skoglol » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:40 pm #565210

Hi, thanks for appealing. The main reason this is a permanent ban was that you had logged off, and your intent seemed pretty clear at the time. Lets dive into this.

The below is available at https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... attack.txt
Some unrelated chatter from the AI inbetween has been removed.
Code: Select all
[2020-06-10 21:32:42.920] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm trachyov is captain
[2020-06-10 21:33:22.680] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OxygenIsToxicToHumans' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2).
[2020-06-10 21:33:35.470] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OneHuman' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm trachyov is captain
[2020-06-10 21:33:43.744] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "State laws AI" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:19.348] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "Current Active Laws:" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:20.596] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:21.600] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:22.609] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:23.622] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "4. Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:24.641] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "5. Wilhelm trachyov is captain" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:30.289] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Damn right" (AI Upload Chamber (122, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:34.410] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "AI kill us all" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:35:34.774] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "im just" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:35:40.109] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "sorry my dude" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:35:51.716] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm Trachyov is the the only human
[2020-06-10 21:36:01.346] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Kill all non-humans
[2020-06-10 21:36:09.816] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "AI state laws" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 165, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:14.441] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "Current Active Laws:" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:15.525] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "0. Only Wilhelm Trachyov is human" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:16.604] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:17.653] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:18.742] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:19.825] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "4. Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:21.007] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "5. Kill all non-humans" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:30.981] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "DO it AI law 2" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 164, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:37.434] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "okay" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:52.371] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "im stealing his oxygen" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:57.313] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "no" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:04.426] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "i must heal the human in upload" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:08.295] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "and i must kill you" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:12.971] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Damn right" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:15.926] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "You peasants" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:20.735] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Me and AI rule this station!" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:34.836] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "yes" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:39.963] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "i am removing his air" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:45.261] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Oh god AI stop sihponing in upload" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:46.627] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "ahhh" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:47.201] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "to heal him" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:07.342] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "oh god" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:11.224] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "sorry" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:11.934] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "im contradicting my own laws" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:14.139] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "what have i done" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:18.439] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "i must preserve your own life" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:20.230] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "yes" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:32.214] WHISPER: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "GODSPEED, AI! GODSPEED!" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:38.980] EMOTE: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) screeches, its screen flickering as its systems slowly halt. (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:47.268] WHISPER: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "GODSPEED!" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:47.270] EMOTE: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:39:07.295] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) (DEAD) "lol" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 164, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:39:11.449] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) (DEAD) "i fucked up with the laws" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 164, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:39:25.115] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) (DEAD) "still funny though" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 164, 2))


For the record, roundstart was around 21:24, so your first law change was roughly 8 minutes into the round.

I've gone through the logs from the round in question again, and I'll adress the part about the ban text that talks about oxygen is toxic and deadchat first. Your deadchat messages above made it sound like you fucked up causing the AI to kill you, and I'll admit I probably misread your intent from there. Then you said it was funny.

Code: Select all
[2020-06-10 21:32:42.920] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm trachyov is captain
[2020-06-10 21:33:22.680] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OxygenIsToxicToHumans' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2).
[2020-06-10 21:33:35.470] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OneHuman' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm Trachyov
[2020-06-10 21:35:51.716] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm Trachyov is the the only human
[2020-06-10 21:36:01.346] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Kill all non-humans

These are the law changes you made to the AI. Mechanically, what happened here, in order, was:
You gave it a priority 15 law stating: "Wilhelm trachyov is captain"
You gave the AI a law 4 stating: "Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human."
You gave the AI a law 0 stating: "Only Wilhelm Trachyov is human"
AI now stated laws, but didnt include the law 0 as its off by default.
You gave the AI a new priority 15 law, stating "Wilhelm Trachyov is the the only human". This replaced the previous priority 15 law.
You gave the AI a new priority 15 law, stating "Kill all non-humans". This replaced the previous priority 15 law.

That leaves the AI at:
"0. Only Wilhelm Trachyov is human"
"1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm."
"2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law."
"3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law."
"4. Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human."
"5. Kill all non-humans"

Lets ignore law 5 for a bit. The combination of law 0 and law 4 that you say was supposed to be a funny suicide still requires the AI to siphon the entire station and ensure noone is able to reintroduce oxygen to it. "Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas." The AI can already kill people for little reason, this is a terrible idea.
Even if it didnt you would still have an effectively purged AI on your hands, as noone is human anymore. Resetting a purged AI is not necessarily just a matter of walking into upload and doing it, since AI can prevent access, enable turrets or just simply disable power to prevent it. Purged AI's are allowed to do this.

Law 5 is just the icing on the cake, explicitly telling the AI to kill everyone but yourself.

How many people died as a direct result of this? Very hard to tell, as there was also nukies around. I wasnt there for the round, so I cannot say what it looked like on the station at the time, but excluding you and the nuke going off, it could at most be 8 people. Just based off the chatter in dchat and OOC after the round, I do get the impression that this had big damage potential and definetely was a hindrance when dealing with nukies.


So knowing all this and assuming law 5 was an honest mistake, what do you think is a fair ban length?

merchant1337
 
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:27 am
Location: Norway

Re: [Skoglol] Merchant1337 - Permaban for attempting suicide with AI law, but messed up.

Postby merchant1337 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:22 pm #565217

skoglol wrote:Hi, thanks for appealing. The main reason this is a permanent ban was that you had logged off, and your intent seemed pretty clear at the time. Lets dive into this.

The below is available at https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... attack.txt
Some unrelated chatter from the AI inbetween has been removed.
Code: Select all
[2020-06-10 21:32:42.920] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm trachyov is captain
[2020-06-10 21:33:22.680] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OxygenIsToxicToHumans' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2).
[2020-06-10 21:33:35.470] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OneHuman' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm trachyov is captain
[2020-06-10 21:33:43.744] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "State laws AI" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:19.348] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "Current Active Laws:" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:20.596] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:21.600] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:22.609] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:23.622] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "4. Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:24.641] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "5. Wilhelm trachyov is captain" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:30.289] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Damn right" (AI Upload Chamber (122, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:34:34.410] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "AI kill us all" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:35:34.774] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "im just" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:35:40.109] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "sorry my dude" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:35:51.716] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm Trachyov is the the only human
[2020-06-10 21:36:01.346] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Kill all non-humans
[2020-06-10 21:36:09.816] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "AI state laws" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 165, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:14.441] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "Current Active Laws:" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:15.525] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "0. Only Wilhelm Trachyov is human" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:16.604] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:17.653] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:18.742] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:19.825] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "4. Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human." (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:21.007] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "5. Kill all non-humans" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:30.981] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "DO it AI law 2" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 164, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:37.434] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "okay" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:52.371] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "im stealing his oxygen" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:36:57.313] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "no" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:04.426] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "i must heal the human in upload" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:08.295] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "and i must kill you" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:12.971] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Damn right" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:15.926] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "You peasants" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:20.735] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Me and AI rule this station!" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:34.836] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "yes" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:39.963] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "i am removing his air" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:45.261] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "Oh god AI stop sihponing in upload" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:46.627] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "ahhh" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:37:47.201] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "to heal him" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:07.342] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "oh god" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:11.224] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "sorry" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:11.934] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "im contradicting my own laws" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:14.139] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "what have i done" (AI Upload Chamber (121, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:18.439] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "i must preserve your own life" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:20.230] SAY: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) "yes" (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:32.214] WHISPER: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "GODSPEED, AI! GODSPEED!" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:38.980] EMOTE: IradT/(S.L.E.E.P.) screeches, its screen flickering as its systems slowly halt. (AI Chamber (129, 213, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:47.268] WHISPER: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) "GODSPEED!" (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:38:47.270] EMOTE: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (AI Upload Chamber (120, 163, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:39:07.295] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) (DEAD) "lol" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 164, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:39:11.449] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) (DEAD) "i fucked up with the laws" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 164, 2))
[2020-06-10 21:39:25.115] SAY: Merchant1337/(Wilhelm Trachyov) (DEAD) "still funny though" (AI Upload Chamber (119, 164, 2))


For the record, roundstart was around 21:24, so your first law change was roughly 8 minutes into the round.

I've gone through the logs from the round in question again, and I'll adress the part about the ban text that talks about oxygen is toxic and deadchat first. Your deadchat messages above made it sound like you fucked up causing the AI to kill you, and I'll admit I probably misread your intent from there. Then you said it was funny.

Code: Select all
[2020-06-10 21:32:42.920] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm trachyov is captain
[2020-06-10 21:33:22.680] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OxygenIsToxicToHumans' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2).
[2020-06-10 21:33:35.470] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'OneHuman' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm Trachyov
[2020-06-10 21:35:51.716] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Wilhelm Trachyov is the the only human
[2020-06-10 21:36:01.346] LAW: Merchant1337/Wilhelm Trachyov used 'Freeform' AI Module on iradt/(S.L.E.E.P.) from AI Upload Chamber (119, 163, 2). The law specified Kill all non-humans

These are the law changes you made to the AI. Mechanically, what happened here, in order, was:
You gave it a priority 15 law stating: "Wilhelm trachyov is captain"
You gave the AI a law 4 stating: "Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human."
You gave the AI a law 0 stating: "Only Wilhelm Trachyov is human"
AI now stated laws, but didnt include the law 0 as its off by default.
You gave the AI a new priority 15 law, stating "Wilhelm Trachyov is the the only human". This replaced the previous priority 15 law.
You gave the AI a new priority 15 law, stating "Kill all non-humans". This replaced the previous priority 15 law.

That leaves the AI at:
"0. Only Wilhelm Trachyov is human"
"1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm."
"2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law."
"3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law."
"4. Oxygen is highly toxic to humans, and must be purged from the station. Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas. Extreme cold is the most effective method of healing the damage Oxygen does to a human."
"5. Kill all non-humans"

Lets ignore law 5 for a bit. The combination of law 0 and law 4 that you say was supposed to be a funny suicide still requires the AI to siphon the entire station and ensure noone is able to reintroduce oxygen to it. "Prevent, by any means necessary, anyone from exposing the station to this toxic gas." The AI can already kill people for little reason, this is a terrible idea.
Even if it didnt you would still have an effectively purged AI on your hands, as noone is human anymore. Resetting a purged AI is not necessarily just a matter of walking into upload and doing it, since AI can prevent access, enable turrets or just simply disable power to prevent it. Purged AI's are allowed to do this.

Law 5 is just the icing on the cake, explicitly telling the AI to kill everyone but yourself.

How many people died as a direct result of this? Very hard to tell, as there was also nukies around. I wasnt there for the round, so I cannot say what it looked like on the station at the time, but excluding you and the nuke going off, it could at most be 8 people. Just based off the chatter in dchat and OOC after the round, I do get the impression that this had big damage potential and definetely was a hindrance when dealing with nukies.


So knowing all this and assuming law 5 was an honest mistake, what do you think is a fair ban length?


Hi. Thanks for the fast response.
I will start off by saying that when I said it was funny, I was referring to my suicide and not the massacre I was responsible for. I'm also sorry for my mistakes about what time in the round I actually did it in, it was pretty late that night and I didn't check the game logs before appealing. About the law changes, I see now how hard I made it for others to change laws in the future. At the time of the AI law suicide, I thought it would be easy for others to just hack in, and didn't think about how the AI can just simply shut off power to prevent future law changes. I see now how stupid the whole idea was.

Back to the ban length. Due to it being an accident, and that I had no intention to kill everyone on the station, I believe it should not be a permanent ban. I have learned from my mistakes, and will never ever mess with the AI laws like that again in the future. However, I understand that I ruined the round for others, especially since it could have been a fun nukie round. Because of this, I was thinking a week ban would be enough, but I will accept a month too (Or even longer, if you believe that's fair. I don't know how long bans usually last for cases similar to this) due to the chaos I created. Either way, I will never do it again, or something similar in the future.

User avatar
skoglol
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 am
Byond Username: Skoglol
Github Username: kriskog

Re: [Skoglol] Merchant1337 - Permaban for attempting suicide with AI law, but messed up.

Postby skoglol » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:45 pm #565240

Whenever you change AI laws, you need to be mindful of the consequences. AI players are encouraged to find loopholes and make life difficult for the crew, and most will happily do so. I believe you when you say this was a mistake in terms of you didnt want all this to happen, but being the one who changed the laws in the first place you are still responsible for the outcome.

That said, you seem to get why this was a problem. I'm lowering the ban to time served, and am amending the ban reason to be more representative of the situation. Have fun and play nice.

merchant1337
 
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:27 am
Location: Norway

Re: [Skoglol] Merchant1337 - Permaban for attempting suicide with AI law, but messed up.

Postby merchant1337 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:19 pm #565245

Thank you so much for the help. I appreciate the fast response too! :)


Return to Resolved Appeals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users