[RaveRadbury] NoxVS - Manuel Murderbone Note Appeal

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NoxVS
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[RaveRadbury] NoxVS - Manuel Murderbone Note Appeal

Postby NoxVS » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:00 am #569098

BYOND account: NoxVS
Character name: James Knox
Ban type: Note
Ban length: N/A
Ban reason: MRP - As Heretic, used their big flamey ascended move on the shuttle as a last resort against a mob of crew. Ended up roasting the entire ship. Given that this is like on e of the first ever runs of the Heretic antag, their good play of it up until this point, their good standing, and lack of server outrage, I'm doing this note.
Time ban was placed: 00:03:15
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 139575
Your side of the story: I was a heretic, a sec officer was trying to arrest me for killing other sec officers who had been hunting me down with lethals the whole round. After escaping them once I realized there was a mob slowly forming of uninvolved people trying to help arrest me. I used my ascended abilities to kill the sec officer and then retreated to the cockpit. Because of my ability turning me into a fireball, I accidentally sat people in the cockpit on fire but other than that I just stood there. After the cockpit crew started attacking me I began using my abilities again out of self defense
Why you think you should be unbanned: At first I kind of reluctantly accepted the note, but after looking at what happened I really don't think it was that destructive, and started to feel like an unreasonable enforcement of rule 5. I was going to wait for Rock's admin complaint to be resolved so Rave didnt have an open complaint and appeal for the same round from both ends of an issue but its been almost a month so here we go. The ascended abilities aren't targeted so I am just assuming anyone who died of burns after I started using my abilities was one of mine, except for the sec officer (En I Double Guff Err/Beekatan-Gish) who I attacked with my blade. No one else was attacked directly
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... attack.txt
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... /game.html

Code: Select all
[2020-06-14 23:49:32.246] ATTACK: TERRAFORMINATOR[DC]/(Michael Conway) has died (BRUTE: 0, BURN: 233.3, TOX: 0, OXY: 5.33333, CLONE: 0) (Emergency Shuttle (111, 181, 12))
[2020-06-14 23:49:42.577] ATTACK: MagmaExploiter2/(Rasha-Tanaka) has died (BRUTE: 0, BURN: 238.3, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0) (Emergency Shuttle (113, 175, 12))
[2020-06-14 23:50:08.962] ATTACK: En I Double Guff Err/(Beekatan-Gish) has died (BRUTE: 11.4, BURN: 216.8, TOX: 0, OXY: 9.33333, CLONE: 0) (Emergency Shuttle (115, 170, 12))
[2020-06-14 23:50:13.676] ATTACK: Gooseron/(Jeff Sour) has died (BRUTE: 0, BURN: 234.5, TOX: 0, OXY: 5.33333, CLONE: 0) (Emergency Shuttle (116, 170, 12))
[2020-06-14 23:50:16.430] ATTACK: Coolmanabdul[DC]/(Hahas Clerkmen) has died (BRUTE: 0, BURN: 233.3, TOX: 0, OXY: 6, CLONE: 0) (Emergency Shuttle (110, 166, 12))
[2020-06-14 23:50:49.389] ATTACK: Shouty/(Chloe Baum) Has succumbed to death while in soft critical with -26.9 points of health! (Emergency Shuttle (219, 70, 1))
[2020-06-14 23:50:49.399] ATTACK: Shouty/(Chloe Baum) has died (BRUTE: 6, BURN: 147, TOX: 0, OXY: 73.1, CLONE: 0) (Emergency Shuttle (219, 70, 1))

Of the 6 deaths, 1 was the officer who was actively trying to kill me and drove me to using my abilities, 1 succumbed in soft crit right before the round ended, and 2 had been SSD for so long they were practically catatonic.
Code: Select all
[2020-06-14 23:46:30.867] ATTACK: En I Double Guff Err/(Beekatan-Gish) has fired at NoxVS/(James Knox) with the laser from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 95.6)  (Emergency Shuttle (95, 55, 2))
[2020-06-14 23:46:30.997] ATTACK: En I Double Guff Err/(Beekatan-Gish) has shot NoxVS/(James Knox) with the laser (NEWHP: 95.6)  (Emergency Shuttle (95, 55, 2))
[2020-06-14 23:46:31.463] ATTACK: En I Double Guff Err/(Beekatan-Gish) has fired at NoxVS/(James Knox) with the laser from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 87.1)  (Emergency Shuttle (95, 55, 2))
[2020-06-14 23:46:32.307] ATTACK: En I Double Guff Err/(Beekatan-Gish) has fired at NoxVS/(James Knox) with the laser from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 87.1)  (Emergency Shuttle (95, 55, 2))

Code: Select all
[2020-06-14 23:50:49.389] ATTACK: Shouty/(Chloe Baum) Has succumbed to death while in soft critical with -26.9 points of health! (Emergency Shuttle (219, 70, 1))
[2020-06-14 23:50:49.399] ATTACK: Shouty/(Chloe Baum) has died (BRUTE: 6, BURN: 147, TOX: 0, OXY: 73.1, CLONE: 0) (Emergency Shuttle (219, 70, 1))
[2020-06-14 23:50:50.623] GAME: 23:50:50.623] GAME: Antagonists at round end were...

Code: Select all
[2020-06-14 22:03:20.706] ACCESS: 22:03:20.706] ACCESS: Logout: Coolmanabdul/(Hahas Clerkmen)
[2020-06-14 23:00:08.343] ACCESS: 23:00:08.343] ACCESS: Logout: TERRAFORMINATOR/(Michael Conway)

Even if all 5 innocent deaths were unjustified this still seems too far. The rule exists to stop people going on silent rampages and trying to make it so as few people as possible can play the game. There is a massive difference between accidentally killing 5 innocents in an attempt at self defense towards round end and actual murderboning, and I feel this interpretation of rule 5 is harmful to Manuel and is contributing to why people are afraid of acting antagonistic as an antag. I spent the whole round interacting with people, I created a narrative and made the game more enjoyable for both the living crew and the dead. Even as I was being shot at I was warning the officer that I would start setting things on fire if he didn't fuck off, I was the furthest you can be from going on a silent power trip. It just seems so unreasonable to me to tell an antagonist that they aren't allowed to defend themselves if it will hurt or kill others when their entire point is to create conflict, not to just sit around and act friendly with the crew
References of good conduct: N/A



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PKPenguin321
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Re: [RaveRadbury] NoxVS - Manuel Murderbone Note Appeal

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:37 pm #569166

Indirectly causing deaths during self defense, especially in cases where you can reasonably claim it was not the intent to kill innocents (in this case because he was a new antag with uncertain abilities), is not "murderbone" by any definition on our servers.
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Re: [RaveRadbury] NoxVS - Manuel Murderbone Note Appeal

Postby BeeSting12 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:28 pm #569367

Roleplay Rules wrote:5. Antagonism and murderboning.
You're an antag, great! Treat your role as an interesting challenge and not an excuse to destroy other people’s game experience. Your actions should make the game more fun, more exciting and more enjoyable for everyone; you can treat your objectives as suggestions on what you should attempt to achieve but you are also encouraged to ignore them if you've got a better idea. You do NOT have to act in a nefarious or evil way, but you are not allowed to just go on a silent rampage and eliminate all the players in a power trip. We're all here to have a good time, after all.


Ban reason: MRP - As Heretic, used their big flamey ascended move on the shuttle as a last resort against a mob of crew. Ended up roasting the entire ship. Given that this is like on e [sic] of the first ever runs of the Heretic antag, their good play of it up until this point, their good standing, and lack of server outrage, I'm doing this note.


What rule did NoxVS break here? Roleplay rule 5 forbids murderbone, but causing collateral damage in self defense is not the definition of murderboning. Murderboning is rampaging in an attempt to kill all the players on the server. This note is against both the letter and spirit of roleplay rule 5. NoxVS was creating interesting conflict which is the point of being an antag. This will just scare people away from creating interesting conflicts as antags because they don't want to risk creating collateral damage in a game where nothing is guaranteed and losing is part of the game.

The entire note argues against itself so I don't see the purpose in having it. He used it "as a last resort," it was "one of the first ever runs of the Heretic antag" (meaning it's quite possible NoxVS didn't realize how destructive the ability is), they played it well up to that point (I would argue that they continued playing it well), they have a good standing on the server, and no one (or very few people) got mad at it.

Due to the extenuating circumstances admitted by the prosecutor herself and the fact that the defendant's actions weren't even against any of this fine server's rules, I beg the prosecution to reconsider.
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Re: [RaveRadbury] NoxVS - Manuel Murderbone Note Appeal

Postby RaveRadbury » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:52 pm #569407

Hi, thanks for taking the time to appeal.

Sorry for the wait. I'll be deleting this note.

Thanks to Beesting and PKP for taking the time to contribute.
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