[<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

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IndorilAlmaxeia
 
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[<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby IndorilAlmaxeia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:01 pm #571899

BYOND account: Almaxeia
Character name: Esther Blackguard
Ban type: All Servers
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Rule 8 violations. Logs available by request. Fuck off elsewhere.
Time ban was placed: 2020-08-08 17:34:03
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 143803
Your side of the story: As far as I am aware, this is about the surgery thing. Yesterday I found out with another player that after you have someone living in a folded Bluespace Bodybag you can do a cavity implant operation on someone else to insert that bodybag into them. We found this to be a fun gimmick, reminiscent of “living matryoshka dolls”. Today, we recreated that same gimmick we found yesterday, only with a bigger number of only willing players. We (I presume we all did, definitely I did) thought of it only as harmless fun with a harmless gimmick. There was no erotic or creepy subtext to it. One of the participants did refer to it as “surgical vore” to which I objected saying “just don't call it surgical vore”. I did mention that round too that the gimmick itself reminded me much more of matryoshka dolls rather than vore and at least one participating player agreed with me and did refer to it as “living russian doll”. There was never any erotic or creepy intent involved, and all participating players were willing to have a little fun with a surgery gimmick we found. I did at a later date say “surgical vore”, but it was meant as a joke/throwback to how the other participant said.
If this is not about the surgery, please tell me what it is about so that I can appropriately describe my point of view.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I believe that only a completely corrupted mind would think that what we did was in any way erotic or creepy. I was enamoured by the prospect of creating a living matryoshka doll, and never intended for it to be in any way erotic or creepy. All participants were willing. The "gods" did toss us around a bit and created an ERT commander who said: "cool this shit down, or I blast the entire room", and we did become less excited after that, but we still had fun with the gimmick we found. I find a ban, especially a permanent one an extremely harsh treatment, given that I didn't even receive an administrator private message about my conduct there, and had absolutely no chance of telling my side of the story or of saying my opinion. I do not believe that having fun with the surgery gimmick which is hard for me personally to construe as erotic is a Rule 8 violation, and I do not think I should be banned permanently for that.
References of good conduct: I have not played on any other server since the ban, because I was banned today. I have never been banned on any server before, and my usual interaction with admins comes down to occasional private messages, which usually were rather light-hearted and rarely threatened me with any potential banning. I believe that the aforementioned participating players might help reinforce the fact that this whole situation wasn't ever intended to violate rule 8.

I hope I filled this correctly, please tell me if I did something wrong, I am not used to doing such things.



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Vekter
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Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby Vekter » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:13 pm #571902

I agree that I should have discussed the ban with you before placing it, and for that, I apologize.

The ban was placed based on your behavior and the following logs, which have admittedly been significantly pruned for the sake of brevity. Nothing else that you said made me think this was interpreted as a joke at any point in time.

From https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 8/game.txt
2020-08-08 15:10:47.896] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "Technically, age of consent in Nanotrasen Space is 15" (Command Hallway (153,116,2))
[2020-08-08 15:12:40.544] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "This Agreement is made and entered into as of the date of last signature below, by and between Esther Blackguard (hereafter referred to as SLAVE), and Nanotrasen (hereafter referred to as the omnipresent and helpful watcher of humanity)." (Law Office (189,126,2))
[2020-08-08 15:18:07.249] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "We shall surgically implant Morgan inside you" (Medbay Central (177,90,2))
[2020-08-08 15:19:13.813] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "Cute butt" (Surgery (189,83,2))
[2020-08-08 15:20:20.091] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "Morgain is now inside you" (Surgery (189,83,2))
[2020-08-08 15:28:31.434] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "We'll put you all inside Morgan" (Surgery (190,83,2))
[2020-08-08 15:29:04.368] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "Look at that cute bitt" (Surgery (190,83,2))
[2020-08-08 15:33:31.982] SAY: InsaneRed/(Thomas Dankforth) (station announcement from the �Chief Medical Officer's Desk requests console) "Medical staff is cut in half due to esther putting people inside eachother so dont expect us to work at full efficiency" (Chief Medical Officer's Office (176,76,2))
[2020-08-08 15:36:04.212] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "The sexual tension is definitely unbearable" (Surgery (189,81,2))


If you were joking, you made a poor job of it.

I'm willing to listen to your comments regarding this. Given your long playtime with a relatively clean slate, I could be convinced to lift the ban.
Last edited by Vekter on Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

tumesuo
 
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Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby tumesuo » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:24 pm #571904

[2020-08-08 15:12:40.544] SAY: Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "This Agreement is made and entered into as of the date of last signature below, by and between Esther Blackguard (hereafter referred to as SLAVE), and Nanotrasen (hereafter referred to as the omnipresent and helpful watcher of humanity)." (Law Office (189,126,2))

What they said is what reads on the contracts in HOP's office and Lawyers office. How would reading this out loud be erotical?

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IndorilAlmaxeia
 
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:20 pm
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Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby IndorilAlmaxeia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:40 pm #571905

Alright, let me then explain each log by itself, if you'd let me.

Log number 1 is me making a reference to a thing I said another day, about the exact same topic. There are many countries in Europe in which age of consent is 15 or lower, I don't think that there's anything inherently wrong with saying such thing. Additionally, a lot of my humour is self-referential and only funny to me, and may as such be misinterpreted often. For that I apologise.

Log number 2 is a literal quote from the Nanotrasen Emplymet Contract, available to view at the Law Office. I see nothing wrong with it personally, by the way, it is meant to be humorous.

Log number 3 is me stating what we (Esther and Morgan) were going to do to our interlocutor. I try really hard to interpret it as erotic/creepy and I cannot. If we go by the logic that it is, is using a holoparasite a Rule 8 violation too, because you implant another player inside you? My goal was only ever to create a living matryoshka doll, because I find the concept funny.

Log number 4 (as well as 7) are the only ones that could be misconstrued as sexual. I did not have anything particularly sexual or anything at all really in mind. When one of the participants undressed for surgery I made that as a remark about the fact they were not wearing any undergarments. If they were, I'd make a remark about that. That is just how I am, sorry about that.

Log number 5 as well as log number 6 is yet again just the proposition of making a matryoshka. You can see in the logs that I referred to it as a matryoshka and another participant referred to it as "russian doll". I understand that the phrasing has some innuendo to it, but honestly, "Morgan is now surgically implanted inside a bluespace bodybag in your chest cavity" is kind of a mouthful. It is only sexual if you want to make it sexual.

Log number 7 is me again pointing out lack of undergarments of one of the participants. Partially to be self-referential, partially to break a moment of silence.

Log number 8 is yet again relating to me making a matryoshka, with only WILLING participants. The fact that two of the participants were a doctor and a virologist is coincidental. And, with all due respect, but you have to have a really dirty mind to see it as sexual.

Log number 9 is another example of self-referential humour. I say this precise line often, not always in such overtly "questionable" situations. Yet again I apologise for the self-referential humour.

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Vekter
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Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby Vekter » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:47 pm #571908

I think that the insinuation that it is even remotely difficult to derive any sort of sexual meaning from what you're saying in those quotes holds very little water considering that every admin I consulted before banning you has agreed that this, at the very least, toes the line.

I am willing to reduce the ban to a day if you agree that you won't participate in this kind of activity again. I can see how it could be humorous, but considering that more than one of you were referring to it as "surgery vore", it took on a different tone for most of us.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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Fikou
 
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Github Username: Fikou

Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby Fikou » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:49 pm #571909

logs from the following round where almaxeia was banned (not sure if peanut since its from 1 round later)
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/143 ... e=game.txt
05:23:45 SAY Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "The only unfortunate part is" (137, 100, 2) Genetics Lab
05:23:57 SAY Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "You don't get my great tits." (137, 100, 2) Genetics Lab
05:24:01 SAY Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "And you're flat" (137, 100, 2) Genetics Lab
*snip*
05:26:34 SAY Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "Pick a different dress" (134, 148, 2) Locker Room
05:26:45 SAY Almaxeia/(Esther Blackguard) "This one doesn't match your lack of tits" (134, 148, 2) Locker Room
Last edited by Fikou on Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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skoglol
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Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby skoglol » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:50 pm #571910

Reminder to everyone that if you are posting excerpts from logs, you also need to be posting a link to said logs.

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IndorilAlmaxeia
 
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:20 pm
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Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby IndorilAlmaxeia » Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:02 pm #571913

I'm sorry, I simply enjoy staying very near that line but I have simply taken it too far today. This I think is the biggest issue, I enjoy that feeling of risk of almost breaking the rules. I never intended to break them, but staying so close to almost breaking them isn't a good stance anyway, and I admit, now that I look at it, I may have taken it a bit too far.

I'm truly sorry, and I won't participate in "that kind of activity" again, if this is such a big issue. I really enjoy this server and this community, and I would be a bit sad to just let it all go. But if you decide to uphold the ban which is entirely within your right, I'll simply disappear and you will never have to worry about me again.

If I am allowed a final comment, I would like to reiterate that I was never a fan of "surgery vore" and I absolutely hate that fetish. Although I still think that if that counted as vore then holoparasites should too.
If you do reduce my ban, I would also like to be notified more often by admins if I yet again verge too close to the line. I admit that while I do enjoying playing close to the tracks, I am sometimes too socially retarded to see the coming train. If that metaphor makes sense.

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Vekter
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Re: [<Vekter>] Almaxeia - Differences in rule interpretation

Postby Vekter » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:36 am #571959

Okay, fair enough. I'll lift the ban. Thanks for being understanding during all of this.

E: Lifted.
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Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

PostThis post was deleted by Armhulen on Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:33 am.
Reason: peanut


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