[TheMidnightRose] Twin Suns - Perma Banned From All Head Roles

[Twin-suns]

BYOND account: Twin Suns

Character name:Iroquois Pliskin

Ban type:Head Roles

Ban length: Permanent

Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer permanently - As Captain. Named the station 卐 I love iCarly station 卍

Time ban was placed: 2020-07-20 01:09:53

Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil

Round ID in which ban was placed: 142359

Your side of the story: The name of the station was named "卐 I love iCarly station 卍" with the swastika and the sauwastika (Buddhism) respectively, and I thought it was funny because of the juxtapose, it makes no sense. Later on the name was changed through admin intervention and the round turned to "revolt" against Centcom for their decision due to other players also liking the name and/or joke carried with it, prompting ERT to come (and fail) to kill all heads and antagonist (nuke ops), before the round came to an end. Then I get banned from all head roles with no prior talking to.

Why you think you should be unbanned: The name of the station wasn't even out of context or in context offensive, and served no purpose other than for a funny joke. The swastikas inherently carry no meaning especially when paired with iCarly, even if you wanted to pretend that the symbol (swastika and sauwastika) carry some form meaning then you must accept that least one of these symbols is a purely religious icon. Regardless, this shouldn't even be a point of contention because in the rules there is no implicit statement against using either Unicode, ASCII, or other allegedly offensive text in the station's name. In the past I've seen other captains do this same joke (albeit obviously not with swastikas) and not receive any sort of repercussions, a note, let alone a permanent ban with no admin discussion. The in character explanation for naming the station is that you write it on a paper (charter) to submit to Centcom. I don't believe I did anything wrong, as the whole point of this name itself was a joke, something I could feasibly imagine my character writing in the game due to my/his autism.

(This is also an appeal stated to be made 2 weeks or later in the prior appeal by the banning admin himself, TheMidnightRose)

References of good conduct: n/a

[TheMidnghtRose]

I'll repeal everything but captain for this after looking over this and the original appeal again. Yes both symbols are from Buddhism, but I doubt that putting them in there was you wanting to put up their meanings from Buddhism.

I dont care if you use Unicode to make flairs on station names, Swatikas and Sauwastikas have no place here.

Yes I did send ERT once the revolt started after I noticed the station name. I dont remember off the top of my head if I sent in a second nukie team when the last of the roundstart ones turned onto the station's side.

[Twin-suns]

I'll repeal everything but captain for this after looking over this and the original appeal again. Yes both symbols are from Buddhism, but I doubt that putting them in there was you wanting to put up their meanings from Buddhism.

I dont care if you use Unicode to make flairs on station names, Swatikas and Sauwastikas have no place here.

Yes I did send ERT once the revolt started after I noticed the station name. I dont remember off the top of my head if I sent in a second nukie team when the last of the roundstart ones turned onto the station's side.

Well you're correct, there was no inherent meaning in either of them (one is explicitly a non-hitler related religious icon). They were there for a (subjectively) funny visual joke when combined with iCarly. Nothing more. There was no instances of me screaming "HEIL HITLER", etc.. just that one and done joke.

Swatikas and Sauwastikas have no place here.

There is no precedent in the rules for this. Entertaining the idea that this is some sort of political statement (it isn't), how am I endorsing hitler by promoting iCarly? It makes no feasible sense, and in all honesty appears as if you're trying to bar me from a head role with a ban that you've politicized in your own narrative. You've admitted that the ban isn't about the unicode characters itself, but was instead just a ban over a political opinion you hold and that the ban was a personal attack against myself, giving me no chance to explain in any form through admin verbs. In the prior appeal, you also gave no legitimate reason as to why it was automatically denied and only told me to wait two weeks, effectively forcing me regardless of innocence or not to be banned for (at a minimum) two weeks.

Also this is rejected, at least for two more weeks. Reappeal sometime in August and we will discuss this more.

Thread in question;

Spoiler:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 34&t=27152

Not only did I have to fight for this twice now, another admin unrelated to this incident has already acted in bad faith about my last appeal publicly while it was in the process (and participating in it) on the official /tg/discord In #Discussion-general.
https://i.imgur.com/UBjgDTz.png

[oranges]

There is no precedent in the rules for this.

1) Don't be a dick.
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly.

Luckily for the admin team and unluckily for you, we don't need to write down every single thing that is illegal, which means you can't appeal to the fact it's not written down. As long as we think you're being a dick, you're fair game.

Also mods don't delete this post it's quoting rules and therefore not a peanut.

[Vekter]

Since you're willing to drag me into the situation, I'll chime in.

Put frankly, I don't buy your weak "But it's funny because it's a juxtaposition" excuse. You would be served a million times better by admitting that you did it in bad faith and are sorry for what happened than by lying because you want to be unbanned.

It's up to Rose as to how this is handled, so I'll leave it at that.

[MrStonedOne]

I do not think a job ban, let alone a perma job ban, regardless of scope, is warranted for a first offence with no notes or any prior warning from admins for a rule 1 ban over a symbol in the station name.

If the context was "卍 gas the jews 卍" I could see it, but not everybody holds symbolism as absolute, and expecting them to magically know that isn't realistic.

I agree with oranges, in that we shouldn't have to define every situation the rules apply to, but also think we can based enforcement and punishment levels off of how reasonable it is for the player to know the expectation was there and know they were violating it.

A rule 1 perma job ban for this kind of conduct would only be justifiable in the context of a history of line toeing and rules lawyering, but i'm seeing nothing in their notes to document this.

I'm gonna refer this ban to the headmins for further discussion.

[Twin-suns]

Hi I just wanted to reply so the thread isn't seen as inactive that I am still waiting on the official verdict before it is closed on what will happen with the appeal to my job bans.

[oranges]

You're gonna have to wait given new headadmins just got elected.

[TheMidnghtRose]

Currently, you are only banned from Captain, I already repealed the bans from all other Command Roles.

[Twin-suns]

Currently, you are only banned from Captain, I already repealed the bans from all other Command Roles.

I would still like to know the outcome of the appeal, due to the reply prior;

I do not think a job ban, let alone a perma job ban, regardless of scope, is warranted for a first offence with no notes or any prior warning from admins for a rule 1 ban over a symbol in the station name.
[...] I'm gonna refer this ban to the headmins for further discussion.

Due to this I am still waiting for an official word on what will happen with the appeal's outcome now that it has gone into the hands of a higher power on the totem pole. The initial reply was just so this thread would not be seen as dead in the water and locked for inactivity.

As it stands I am still waiting for the appeal to be approved and all ban(s) lifted, or denied and the bans remain until the next appeal cycle, as reducing the scope of an instant no-warning, no prior-infractions permaban over language does not make it a less unreasonable ban.

[Coconutwarrior97]

You should not be including the swastika in station names, though without previous history it shouldn't be a ban. This will be changed to a note.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Change to note.
TWATICUS: Change to note.
Phuzzylodgik: Change to note.