[Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

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[Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:37 pm #578265

BYOND account: wesoda25
Character name: Mason Azucar
Ban type: Note
Ban reason: Warned for giving a restrained prisoner an addictive dose of morphine (50u) on MRP.
Time ban was placed: During 147723 on Manuel, an hour ago
Your side of the story: So before the round starts, I try and join as security, but I fumble around and accidentally end up as assistant. I go to HOP and request to be deputized. Then I begin my security work (note: my character has the pacifist and empath traits, their motivation for joining was to try and put a stop to the violence on the station).

After a while a ling ends up in brig. I foresee that people are going to just try and delete them, and since my character values life, I grab some morphine (that I have access to, from brig) so that I can suggest a way of nonharmfully disabling them. Cap says no, and he and another officer go off to kill them, I refuse to come with since it goes against what my character believes in. After a bit I hear them screaming that the ling escaped, and I track them down myself.

I see this as an opportunity to bring them in on my own terms, and opt to cuff and then shoot them up with morphine. I did this because if they escaped from the captain and an officer cuffed, what fucking chance do I have on my own to bring them in? Sylphet then elects to bwoink me, and after some back and forth gives me the note.

Rest of story plus other stuff (not immediately relevant):
Spoiler:
So anyways after that, I smuggle them to brig without anyone knowing. I try and straightjacket/muzzle/blindfold them, but I couldn't (I think bc they had a flesh disguise on). So I head over to reeducation, and after a bit of secret work with the warden (and later not so secret work with the HOS), I finally manage to get them in a state/place where they won't be able to escape, but are still alive.

After this I finally engage with sylphet in detailed ahelps, and some stuff is said. They told me off for my knowledge that things such as BZ cuck lings, which I apologized for because I wasn't aware that people couldn't know about antags (and mind you, I still don't know. I checked the MRP rules and see nothing to support this. Am I looking in the wrong place?).

And yeah can't really remember if there's much else to the story.

Why you think you should be unbanned: As I explained to them, the alternative was cremation. This note is completely ridiculous. If you are upset with me having knowledge about antag mechanics, make the note about that. The note is misleading, it doesn't even state they're a ling.

appeal renamed something to more manuel friendly



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Sylphet
 
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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby Sylphet » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:14 am #578268

No one forced you to give them a morphine addiction. You could have given them a dose under the threshold, or like I said repeatedly in the ticket, clearly you had time to get morphine, why not sulfonal or chloral ? This is the problem here. Drugging the prisoner to put them to sleep does not require giving them an addiction.

Nothing about this note is inaccurate. I'll update the note to reflect that the person was a changeling, but I have no interest in lifting this.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27175

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby BeeSting12 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:32 am #578272

I'm confused as to what makes killing the changeling better than giving him an addiction. Wesoda kept the antag in the round arguably making the story more interesting than if the changeling had just been cremated. I'm confused as to what rule (either LRP or MRP standards) this goes against.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day


[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby wesoda25 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:40 am #578274

You do realize I ended up putting them in a room packed with CO2 and N2O and removed any way for them to escape, right? That if I hadn’t done this, they simply would have been deleted? This addiction did not affect them at all.

But that’s through the eyes of the player, so let’s look at it icly. Why would my character care in the slightest that a murderous CHANGELING gets an addiction? My character prioritizes life above all else - they didn’t want a ling to die, but also definitely didn’t want that ling to escape, as that would result in other people dying. It wouldn’t make sense to cut any corners or waste time finding a different chem when what I had worked perfectly well. Mind you, I didn’t think I would be NEEDING the morphine, and had walked off and forgotten about it until they cried out the ling had escapes, at which point im like 90% certain I wasn’t in brig and wanted to prioritize finding it, not taking measures so as to make sure I didn’t hurt its fee fees.

This is so bizarre to me because I felt I roleplayed at a quality which at the very least was suitable for MRP. It feels as if you’re punishing me for trying to do things in a different way. Furthermore, this is hugbox galore, security shouldn’t have to worry about the feelings of murderous, nigh unkillable antags. This note is wack, and I would like it removed.

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby Sylphet » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:00 am #578279

Again - the problem is not that you locked them in a changeling prison or whatever. This note is not about that. The only thing that I have a problem with here is that even when you had them fully stunned and restrained, you gave them an addictive dose of morphine. Under the addiction threshold would have been fine, though it would still have been better to use a different chem. There's no reason to do this to a prisoner who is not able to hurt you, valid or not. This is without even mentioning that the entire point of changeling is that it makes it hard to know who is who. How did you know that the person you arrested was the changeling, and not someone whose identity was stolen ? You could have arrested the real one mistakenly, and they would then be addicted to morphine, because somehow the entire arsenal of nonlethal weapons that security has was not enough for you. This being okay is not a precedent that should be set on Manuel.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27175

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby wesoda25 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:17 am #578282

I did not have an arsenal, I had the contents of a security belt, plus another baton I took from a cargo tech who stole one. I then had the outfit stuff. No gun. This was because I was a deputy.

I had very good reason to suspect the person I found was a changeling. Cap/sec had been going to kitchen when they said they escaped. Then, there was an alert about a rad storm incoming - this narrowed it down to maintenance bordering this area. At the bottom of a hallway I found a half naked moth without an ID, which I found very suspicious. I then confirmed it when I tried to remove a piece of their clothing, just to see it was stuck to them. And isn't a huge part of this game paranoia and not knowing who is who? Even if I wasn't sure (I was), seems like a "shit happens" type of deal.

As I said earlier, the last I saw of them, they were cuffed, being escorted by the captain and a fully armed security officer. They posed a very real threat against me, even if I went along with your whole "not knowing antag mechanics" thing (seriously, is that a rule?), I could have easily discerned that they were capable of escaping restraints and powerfully armed people.

I agree this isn't a good precedent to set. You're punishing people for exploring alternative methods of handling dangerous antagonists, and rewarding those antags for being pussies who cry to admins when something doesn't go their way.

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby Sylphet » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:29 am #578283

wesoda25 wrote:I did not have an arsenal, I had the contents of a security belt, plus another baton I took from a cargo tech who stole one. I then had the outfit stuff. No gun. This was because I was a deputy.

I had very good reason to suspect the person I found was a changeling. Cap/sec had been going to kitchen when they said they escaped. Then, there was an alert about a rad storm incoming - this narrowed it down to maintenance bordering this area. At the bottom of a hallway I found a half naked moth without an ID, which I found very suspicious. I then confirmed it when I tried to remove a piece of their clothing, just to see it was stuck to them. And isn't a huge part of this game paranoia and not knowing who is who? Even if I wasn't sure (I was), seems like a "shit happens" type of deal.

As I said earlier, the last I saw of them, they were cuffed, being escorted by the captain and a fully armed security officer. They posed a very real threat against me, even if I went along with your whole "not knowing antag mechanics" thing (seriously, is that a rule?), I could have easily discerned that they were capable of escaping restraints and powerfully armed people.


Okay. This is fair enough, in this case, that's definitely enough to say oh yeah this is a changeling. It still completely misses the point though, that MRP security should not be giving people addictions as part of arrests. That is literally the only thing that the note is about.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27175

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby Vekter » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:38 am #578284

Spoiler:
The point Sylphet is trying to make is that chloral hydrate and sulfonal have much the same effect without also giving the character an addiction which, from an RP standpoint, is a pretty major problem. I'll admit that I'm not 100% certain of the exact thresholds, but I am aware that the addiction threshold for morphine is higher than the dosage that knocks them out. Remember that the entire basis of a note appeal stands on whether or not the note is factual to the situation at hand. In this case, it doesn't sound like Sylphet made an error.

This is in violation of RP rule 8 as it goes counter to the idea of acting as if you want to keep your job.

tl;dr you had alternatives and chose the worst one, whether or not that was intentional is irrelevant.

I will commend you on good RP as far as preventing someone from being killed, playing on your character's pacifist nature. That's good shit and I think we should see more of it on Manuel.


EDIT: Having looked at the facts a bit more and considered it, I don't think my statements on the matter are relevant to the situation at large. I'll post more about it in the peanut thread but tl;dr this situation is a bit complex and indicative of how we need to do better as far as rule enforcement on RP servers. I'll leave what I said for historical purposes but I'm putting it under a spoiler.
Last edited by Vekter on Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Image
Image


Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

PostThis post was deleted by Armhulen on Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:16 am.
Reason: prove it with logs

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby Fishimun » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:12 am #578294


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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby ATHATH » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:20 am #578295

Vekter wrote:Remember that the entire basis of a note appeal stands on whether or not the note is factual to the situation at hand. In this case, it doesn't sound like Sylphet made an error.

The note is TECHNICALLY factual, but it's incredibly misleading.
Warned for giving a restrained prisoner an addictive dose of morphine (50u) on MRP.

This note just says that they gave "a restrained prisoner" an addictive dose of morphine, not that they gave "a CHANGELING prisoner who, while restrained at the moment, had shown the ability to break out of restraints before" an addictive dose of morphine. If the note has to stay, it should at LEAST mention that the prisoner was a known changeling, as that makes a HUGE difference to what it means (as it means that the addiction wasn't putting the prisoner in any actual danger (IIRC, normal morphine addictions don't even deal enough damage to bring you from 100 to crit anyway) AND was a confirmed enemy of the corporation).

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby Sylphet » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:21 am #578296

ATHATH wrote:This note just says that they gave "a restrained prisoner" an addictive dose of morphine, not that they gave "a CHANGELING prisoner who, while restrained at the moment, had shown the ability to break out of restraints before" an addictive dose of morphine. If the note has to stay, it should at LEAST mention that the prisoner was a known changeling, as that makes a HUGE difference (as it means that the addiction wasn't putting the prisoner in any actual danger (IIRC, normal morphine addictions don't even deal enough damage to bring you from 100 to crit anyway) AND was a confirmed enemy of the corporation).


Sylphet wrote:I'll update the note to reflect that the person was a changeling.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27175

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby wesoda25 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:24 am #578297

y'all have GOT to be kidding. I'm not even mad about this it's so absurd. Getting consent from a murderous changeling? Disobeying HOP's orders to not give more than 20 units (not sure if they said that though) while captain and security are trying to literally delete the antag? Worrying about which chemical will have the least effect on said murderous changeling? I feel as if I had chosen to get one of those drugs, you would have said I'm powergaming by getting my hands on a chemical I cannot access on my own, and should have gone with the easily accessible morphine.

For the love of God put down the hugbox juice and take a moment to look at this objectively.

PostThis post was deleted by Armhulen on Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:43 am.
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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby BeeSting12 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:09 am #578306

I'm now extremely confused as to what roleplay rule Wesoda has broken here.
Vekter wrote:This is in violation of RP rule 8 as it goes counter to the idea of acting as if you want to keep your job.

Vekter is saying rule 8, but that one pertains to having OOC knowledge a character wouldn't reasonably know, which Wesoda actually followed by not knowing the perfect combo of knockout chemicals as an assistant turned security officer. I think Vekter meant rule 9, which Wesoda technically broke by trying to prevent someone from going to a command approved execution, but later on in Vekter's post, he praised that, so that can't be it.

When I read that Wesoda locked the changeling in a CO2 filled room, I immediately thought that was shittier than giving them a morphine addiction, but Sylphet said that was not the issue. Sylphet just doesn't want morphine addiction to be a part of arrests, which it's not, because Wesoda used it on an antagonist that traditionally allows lethal force to be used on it.

Wesoda is right this is absolutely absurd, the changeling is mad he got caught a second time and ahelped, and the admins pandered to him. There is no rule to support this note (that's the precedent I'm quoting @mods). The changeling's fate would have been cremation and Wesoda saved him from that, giving him a second chance.

tldr As far as I can tell, Wesoda got noted for a non rule break and praised by a Manuel admin for doing something that would theoretically be against Manuel's rules.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day


[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby oranges » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:33 am #578309

The astonishing thing here is that not a single one of you got the actual RP rules correct.

edit: actually to be fair my reading of vekters interpretation is probably unfair, they did stick pretty close to rule 8, it was just beesting reading from the wrong rules.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Roleplay_Rules wrote:Rule 7)Don’t use OOC information or knowledge that your character would not reasonably be aware of just to give yourself an advantage.
Do not powergame. Powergaming is gearing up or preparing in other ways to face an issue that is not related to your job and is not currently a credible threat. Someone going missing on the station, and then you making a stunprod to wield whenever you go into maint is powergaming. However; knowing there have been murders occurring across the station, and grabbing a stunprod while you go to fix wires in maint is fine.
Rule 8) Play as a coherent, believable character.
Real life realism is not required, and you are encouraged to be a little silly within the context of the SS13 game world. (Clowning around, people spontaneously exploding and creating ridiculously elaborate machinery are all non-serious things but yet a vital part of the game world.) There's a good chance your character still wants to have a job at the end of the day, so you should probably act like it.

Rule 9) Stay in your lane.
Stay in your lane. This mean that you should do the job you signed up for and not try and do other people’s jobs for them. If you need something from another player you should attempt to ask them to get it for you instead of just taking it. If there is no one around to do a job or you get permission to help or grab something it is acceptable to stray from your lane.

Beesting is on an entirely wrong ruleset and Vekter is conflating rules 8, 9 and 7 all together as one.

However none of these rules justify someone intervening in a round to warn someone about giving someone a dose of morphine, given the circumstances of dealing with an unknown antagonist capable of morphing into other crewmembers, sedating them would be considered justified in nearly any real life scenario you can think of and people would not be super worried about the ALIEN LIFEFORM GETTING ADDICTED TO MORPHINE, so the whole idea that they did anything wrong under rule 8 is patently absurd. We can tell from real life historical precedent that ethics would not be considered when dealing with an unknown very dangerous threat, let alone considering the IC lore aspects of NT not really giving a damn about the health and welfare of their station crews.

Their actions are also entirely justified as per the rules themselves.

First
Roleplay Rules wrote:These are extra rules.
The RP rules are an extension to the base rules, not a replacement for. Big difference.

This is a key fact that most manuel administrators seem completely incapable of absorbing, perhaps they should go back through training to grasp what this actually means.

EDIT: and you know what to be honest this could probably use a policy thread, because I"ve seen way too many fucking RP admins blow off the main rules and the main server players with "IT's the rp server" so they clearly have not fucking read and understood the ruleset they're supposed to be enforcing. Clearly they're only looking at it when they need to find some bullshit justification for some bullshit they've pulled up out of their asshole and need to cover for. They should fucking understand that they are operating from the EXACT fucking same base ruleset and don't get to make it up as they go along.

Second from main rules
The main rules wrote:Losing is part of the game.
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Especially, and I have to strongly emphasise Especially when the player is an antagonist or taken out by one.

Finally, because I feel like I haven't typed enough in this post yet, the true irony is that Wesoda was actually trying to follow our most important rule.
The golden rule wrote:Don't be a dick.
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.


He was trying to find a solution where the player remained in the game, and had a chance to continue to roleplay, but instead they're getting pulled up on an absurd technicality that isn't supported by the very RP ruleset the server admins claim to operate on. This is the saddest part of the whole ordeal because honestly there was no reason for them to have a negative experience from playing the game like this and it's just extremely disappointing that it had to come to this.

They weren't acting maliciously, they weren't doing it out of ill-intent, but clearly the noting admin and the people defending the noting admin are assuming the worst possible bad faith? Why? I don't fucking know, maybe wesoda pissed in their cheerio's or something but there certainly isn't anything in game to support that PoV. Like holy shit the guy developed an entirely manageable in game IC addiction to a drug. It certainly beats being fucking dismembered and put in the cremator.

Summary, headadmins will delete this note, but no punishments will be laid.

Outcome: probably reasonable, but honestly I don't know because the manuel admins are starting to act extremely cringe and someone needs to rope them in and give them cock and ball torture until they start not being so overly aggressive about minor fucking issues.

Now that I have done my part, I feel free to say this is a note straight out of bay and the admin responsible should go back there and stay away from tg forever, literally nobody needs protecting from the admins over getting an IC addiction to a drug, Not a single person ever. The name of the servers are manuel and campbell, not hugbox 1 and 2.

People wonder why I don't want to add code to support the RP servers when their admins really out here acting like this smh.

Wow I edited this post like 300 times I mus feel really strongly about it.

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby BeeSting12 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:43 am #578315

Are you referencing this page? https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Roleplay_Rules

8. Don’t use OOC information or knowledge that your character would not reasonably be aware of just to give yourself an advantage.

9. Play as a coherent, believable character.

10. Stay in your lane.

Either you and Vekter numbers are off by one or mine are but I think we're referencing the same rules. Either way my points still apply.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day


[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

hows my driving?

PostThis post was deleted by Armhulen on Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:09 am.
Reason: peanut gallery

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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby Sylphet » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:50 am #578336

sigh Watching this happen IC left me with a very different perspective on what happened than what actually did. To me this looked like a sec officer with the situation under control using morphine to ruin a person's shift because valid, especially when they were brought immediately to the execution room and prepared to be thrown in a changeling prison, which it's hard for me to believe that a random sec officer (I wasn't aware of the assistant thing at the time) would know how to build. The more that I think about it - why would an assistant sec fighting a shape shifting monster know the overdose thresholds of morphine ? I still don't *love* how this was handled, but I'm going to lift the note.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
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Re: [Sylphet] Wesoda25 - Bruh

Postby MortoSasye » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:56 am #578338

Admin help logs from: https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/manuel/data/logs/2020/10/05/round-147723/game.log

Between Wesoda25 and Sylphet
Spoiler:
[2020-10-05 22:14:38.248] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): Hi. Can we NOT give people addictive doses of morphine when you have them restrained, please ?
[2020-10-05 22:14:46.581] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): theyre a ling sweetie
[2020-10-05 22:15:25.481] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): Yeah, and ? Don't give addictions to restrained prisoners, if you have to drug them, ask the warden or chemistry for chloral or something.
[2020-10-05 22:16:52.008] ADMINPRIVATE: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux) has created a note for Wesoda25: Warned for giving a restrained prisoner an addictive dose of morphine (50u) on MRP.
[2020-10-05 22:16:57.596] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): talk ina sec
[2020-10-05 22:26:19.827] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #6: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): anyways yeah its literally a fucking ling, everyone wanted them dead, my character is a pacifist and values life and sought a way to disable them without resorting to cremation. the only reliable way I saw to transport them was by putting them to sleep. an addiction really doest mean shit when the alternative is being deleted
[2020-10-05 22:31:31.658] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): Okay. Leaving aside the fact that ling existence is a secret from an IC perspective, so there's no believable way that a random sec officer would be perfectly trained in every possible way to counter a ling, knowing that BZ drains their chems, and that they can vent crawl, or whatever else I missed - just like, dude don't give people addictions that is *such* a dick move, especially when security literally have a supply of the *not* addictive chloral, or you can just ask chemistry.
[2020-10-05 22:32:55.193] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): i wasnt aware of the knowledge part so sorry about that (people displayed similar knowledge so I thought it was fine? idk my bad) but once again we return to the simple matter of addiction&gt;being deleted
[2020-10-05 22:35:46.267] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): I mean, no, we can't. You have non addictive options available to you, if the massive amount of restraints and nonlethal weapons that security get is not enough to bring someone to the brig, I don't really know what to tell you. You don't start with these chems, you have to specifically go out of your way to pick them up at round start, which means that you have the time to get something that *doesn't* ruin the round of your victim.
[2020-10-05 22:36:46.255] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): I have to do something now but i will get back to you. probably 20 minutes ish
[2020-10-05 22:37:12.015] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): No need. Just don't do this on MRP.
[2020-10-05 22:37:24.704] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket <A HREF='?_src_=holder;admin_token=96924329571065529532366210295810619;ahelp=[0x21054e6c];ahelp_action=ticket'>#6</A> resolved by <a href='?priv_msg=sylphet'>Sylphet</a>/(Celeste Veilleux)


Between Wesoda25 and Owegno

Spoiler:
[2020-10-05 22:55:09.951] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #12: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): is syphet gone? im back now and am unhappy with a note they gave me this round - heard by 1 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[2020-10-05 22:55:25.699] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Owegno/(Luvenia Afriel)->Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): They did seem to have left.
[2020-10-05 22:59:08.909] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #12: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): do you mind if I ask you, am I in the wrong for giving a ling a ton of mophine? is that actually taboo on manuel? the alternative was cremation
[2020-10-05 23:02:02.465] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Owegno/(Luvenia Afriel)->Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar): Honestly there is no policy on that kind of thing. Like my only issue with it is that I'd think a sec officer wouldn't know about addictions BUT, we don't enforce metaknowledge rules last I checked so while I think its cool if people act like they don't know the more advanced parts of other departments and I've had some fun interactions as a reult, its not something that is enforced.
[2020-10-05 23:02:49.947] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Wesoda25/(Mason Azucar)->Owegno/(Luvenia Afriel): guess the only thing to do is appeal it to see what they have to say. thanks though.


Between Ikrarkjr (The changeling in question) and Sylphet
Spoiler:
[2020-10-05 22:06:26.221] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #5: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose): no metaknowledge rules are so fucking stupid you watching this shit
[2020-10-05 22:06:38.929] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose): Nah what's up fam
[2020-10-05 22:07:06.840] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): security uses the mechanic of removing a persons brain and defibbing to prove im a changeling#And how would they know that IC?
[2020-10-05 22:07:21.730] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): sec officer comes in &#34;remove the brain, changelings brains are vestigial
[2020-10-05 22:07:59.807] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): MRP with no metaknowledge rules is so dumbbbb
[2020-10-05 22:12:16.793] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Ikrarkjr/(Encino Moth): Eh. I totally agree that it's cringe but this is probably something for policy discussion. It makes sense to me that security would be trained on fighting changelings but it's also super terrible from a gameplay flow perspective.
[2020-10-05 22:16:33.960] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ikrarkjr/(Encino Moth)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): NT denies the existence of changelings in the lore
[2020-10-05 22:17:14.963] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ikrarkjr/(Encino Moth)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): so an officer has an extremely in depth of changeling testing, with nooooo possible way they couldve known that IC, at all
[2020-10-05 22:23:46.253] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #5: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose): IM FUCKING BUGGED AS A LING LMFAO
[2020-10-05 22:24:28.454] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose): h. Probably ping a coder.
[2020-10-05 22:25:03.655] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): gimme antag token UwU
[2020-10-05 22:30:37.973] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose)->Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux): i cant revive with my head cut off, but they stand there expecting me to cause metaknowledge#god this is cringe as fuck#using game mechanics OOC to win
[2020-10-05 22:38:36.491] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Sylphet/(Celeste Veilleux)->Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose): Again it's cringe and a bug, I talked to them bc it's definitely excessive and powergamey but that's all that I can do from my side of things.
[2020-10-05 22:39:29.161] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket <A HREF='?_src_=holder;admin_token=96924329571065529532366210295810619;ahelp=[0x21015e83];ahelp_action=ticket'>#5</A> resolved by <a href='?priv_msg=sylphet'>Sylphet</a>/(Celeste Veilleux)
[2020-10-05 22:44:45.855] ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Ikrarkjr/(Ambrosia Rose): so i got bugged into being unable to revive as a changeling, is there any chance i could come back as like a revenant or something? losing to a bug is very upsetting https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/51408
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