[Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

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obi wan kaczynski
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:14 am
Byond Username: Into_the_woods

[Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by obi wan kaczynski » #579808

BYOND account: Into_the_woods
Character name: I forget; I always-random names
Ban type: Server
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason:Attacked a Felinid crewmember for killing a mouse after multiple instances of attacking/calling Felinid crewmembers slurs. Had been warned about this behavior before.
Time ban was placed: 2020-10-22 8:32:37
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 50244

Your side of the story:

a player began the round spending five minutes running around the engineering department, torturing a mouse while people were working. I then threw an oxygen tank and hit her with it to get her to stop, precisely because oxygen tanks are low (very-low?) force and don't do much damage. The player responds with an escalation with a welding torch, beats me into crit, and drags me towards the SM crystal to dust me. I thought that was gonna happen and adminhelped, but the other player was only stopped by another engineer. I was left in crit and eventually died.

The admins who responds (Vekter) begins questioning me about me lack of justification for hitting the other player. I mention IC justifications (see a poor mouse tortured) and OOC exhaustion (catgirls are a sad example of nerd misogyny because they fetishize women as domesticated housepets). He then says that my entire ahelp was to get this felinid ban, which is pretty strange since being murdered by a nonantag and nearly dusted is a completely reasonable motivation for ahelping, and considering that i never even insinuated that I wanted any action taken against that player. I say that I accept responsibility for my offense of assaulting a non-antag. He says because a note says i had been aggressive towards a felinids before in my hundreds of rounds played, I would be banned for for hitting this felinid with an oxygen tank. I said that I reject the authority of his ban, implying that it is absurd and flimsy and injudicious, and that I won't be obeying it, implying that I'll be coming here to appeal, and he interprets this as a threat to ban-evade. In some kind of fit of emotion he turns it into a permanent ban... over, let me remind you, me hitting someone with an oxygen tank and then getting murdered IC for it.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

I should be unbanned because the justification of this ban is exceptionally flimsy and should have never been applied to begin with. I was the one who was murdered, and I initiated the ahelp to get things under control. A tg-wide ban of any length for this minor error is outrageous. I care about the success and progression of this server a great deal, as is evidenced by my passionate posts/chats arguing for improvements to game mechanics.

References of good conduct: I don't staticname so this is impossible.
Last edited by obi wan kaczynski on Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:44 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Armhulen
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Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by Armhulen » #579809

Added ban reason to OP. (Was missing initially)
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Vekter
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Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by Vekter » #579810

You very pointedly left out the ban reason.
Banned from the server permanently - Attacked a Felinid crewmember for killing a mouse after multiple other instances of attacking/calling Felinid players slurs. Has been warned about this behavior before. During adminhelps said they would "not be obeying" and insinuated they would be ban evading.
In the interest of transparency, the exact justification for you attacking the player was, by your own admission, "my character finds such felinid antics loathsome, and frankly catgirl stuff like that is a creepy form of RP. Fetishizing women as domesticated animals". This is important because I think it outlines the real problem based on what happened in previous rounds.

There's been a long-standing 'joke' among certain players and forum goers that everyone who plays a catgirl is transgender and, based on their biases/bigotry, that's a negative thing. Both of your previous notes on the matter involved running around the station screaming "CATGIRLS ARE TR*NNIES" and randomly attacking people which isn't something we allow on Manuel. Both of those incidents were borderline rule 11 violations, something that's being taken seriously.

I don't honestly think it's a leap of logic to go from "This person is parroting a joke used by bigoted forumgoers" to "you attacked a catgirl for very suspect reasons and, when they rightfully beat your skull in, you adminhelped in the hopes they would be banned". You can claim that wasn't your intention, but your past actions don't seem to back that up.

You also seem stuck on the idea that, because you've played many rounds where nothing bad happened, you should be exempt from this ban and you deserve a lighter punishment. You're expected to play like this most - if not all - of the time. You are not an exceptional player for being nice some of the time.

Now, the important thing here is why this is a permanent ban - when I informed you I was having you take a break (A week, which is up from the three days Dreathil gave you for similar behavior), you said this in our ahelp conversation:
08:31:09: Reply PM from-Into_the_woods/(Deandre Thomson): disagreeing with any ban
08:31:19: Reply PM from-Into_the_woods/(Deandre Thomson): i reject the authority of your ban in fact
08:31:27: Reply PM from-Into_the_woods/(Deandre Thomson): so i will not be obeying
This is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty clearly stating your intention to evade your ban one way or another. So I upped it to be permanent.

I'm willing to reduce the ban to the aforementioned week if you can acknowledge that your OOC dislike of felinids is coloring how you treat them ICly which is, at least on Manuel, wholly unacceptable.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
obi wan kaczynski
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:14 am
Byond Username: Into_the_woods

Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by obi wan kaczynski » #579811

I admitted in the very OP that you're responding to that my dislike for Felinids being in game was the motivation:
OOC exhaustion (catgirls are a sad example of nerd misogyny because they fetishize women as domesticated housepets)
So, no dissembling here. Maybe I'll crusade for their removal once get enough clout from making code contributions. Probably not though!

And I think it's self-evident that a week for attacking a player with a very-low force item (and then getting completed robusted IC) is too long as well. Sorry, but such a punishment does not in any way, shape, or form fit the crime. Something like a 24-hour ban is probably called for here. A week from Manuel specifically due to crossing the OOC/IC line? Maybe justified.
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Vekter
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Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by Vekter » #579812

You have to understand that your ban length was reasoned based on this as well as your previous behavior on the server.

At best, I don't see you improving any time soon. At worst, I don't honestly think you're here in good faith to begin with.

I'm going to leave this open for headmins to comment on and reduce your ban to a week. If they feel that it's unjustified, they're welcome to remove it.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
obi wan kaczynski
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:14 am
Byond Username: Into_the_woods

Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by obi wan kaczynski » #579813

Vekter wrote:
I'm going to leave this open for headmins to comment on and reduce your ban to a week.
So my ban being reduced by the perpetrator indicates that I am at least half right. What else am I right could i possibly be right about, then?

Vekter wrote:At best, I don't see you improving any time soon. At worst, I don't honestly think you're here in good faith to begin with.
Not in good faith? How so. I was completely transparent about everything from the start. In fact, you ignored the examples of good-faith transparency in the OP and then acted like they weren't there to begin with. Lets see:

---
Vekter wrote:In the interest of transparency, the exact justification for you attacking the player was, by your own admission, "my character finds such felinid antics loathsome, and frankly catgirl stuff like that is a creepy form of RP. Fetishizing women as domesticated animals". This is important because I think it outlines the real problem based on what happened in previous rounds.
Umm, wait what? I almost used that exact phrasing in my explanation of what happened in the OP:
OOC exhaustion (catgirls are a sad example of nerd misogyny because they fetishize women as domesticated housepets)

On the imaginary master-plan to get someone banned:
Vekter wrote:I don't honestly think it's a leap of logic to go from "This person is parroting a joke used by bigoted forumgoers" to "you attacked a catgirl for very suspect reasons and, when they rightfully beat your skull in, you adminhelped in the hopes they would be banned". You can claim that wasn't your intention, but your past actions don't seem to back that up.
My past actions of trying to get people banned? Never actually happened, check ahelp logs. Me "parroting a joke used by bigoted forumgoers"? I joined this forum one week ago on October 14th. I couldn't possibly have an experience of any such joke, and therefore could not be parroting it.

Vekter seems to have an active imagination. As his own words have shown, this imagination was the the motivation for banning me for -- let's remember what happened -- hitting someone with a low-force object.
Last edited by obi wan kaczynski on Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vekter
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Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by Vekter » #579814

... you ignored the examples of good-faith transparency...
Like not putting your ban reason in the OP?

I'm not arguing this any further. I reduced your ban, that's as good as you're getting from me.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
obi wan kaczynski
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:14 am
Byond Username: Into_the_woods

Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by obi wan kaczynski » #579815

Vekter wrote:
... you ignored the examples of good-faith transparency...
Like not putting your ban reason in the OP?

I'm not arguing this any further. I reduced your ban, that's as good as you're getting from me.
That was a transcription error. I can't copypaste from the Byond window and it disappears after a few seconds. The rest of the ban reason was on the newline, so i missed it while trying to transcribe the text as fast as I could. Or, if you're talking about the first reply in this thread, that's because I was editing the OP to update it when that post was made.

I've been as open as can be.
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Vekter
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Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by Vekter » #579866

As I said, I'm not willing to argue the matter any further. If a headmin wants to unlock the thread to comment they are more than welcome to, otherwise your ban has been reduced to a week.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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Domitius
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Re: [Vekter] Into_the_woods -- permabanned for hitting someone with oxygen tank

Post by Domitius » #579899

Without saying any words or being provoked you assaulted Carolyn Saylor Five times including a number of misses before they started fighting back. You very clearly started that fight and they had every reason to drive your face into the floor. Any offence they were causing was not known to them as you withheld any effort to communicate beyond grabbing the mouse they were dragging around. You had a lot to say in ahelps but you should be channeling that effort to talk more in game if something In character is bothering you.

This is the third time where you've made violent xenophobia a defining trait of your character and it will not be tolerated on our servers. Take this week to cool off and to re-read our rules so you can come back with a fresh mind and play the game without resorting to this type of behaviour.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Uphold.
Domitius: Uphold.
Naloac: Uphold.
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