[<Bdudy>] CataChaos - Ban note appeal

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PrinceThespian
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 pm
Byond Username: CataChaos

[<Bdudy>] CataChaos - Ban note appeal

Post by PrinceThespian » #581384

BYOND account: CataChaos
Character name: Thes Pian
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: As a non-antag began to strip an SSD player. When the player came back and retaliated with a few punches, disablered and threw them off the shuttle.
Time ban was placed: 2020-11-13 01:36:34
Server you were playing on when banned: Bagil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 150132
Your side of the story: I joined the round about ten minutes after it started, and things were a bit crazy. People were killing each other everywhere and there were nuke ops. Command was pretty much no where to be found. Captain (or someone in captains Hardsuit) stunned me and killed me and I came to several minutes later revived in medbay with no clothes. By this point the entire station was plasma flooded and there were fires everywhere. I purchased some nurses scrubs and followed a bunch of people through maint where we ended up having to run through a plasma flood fire to get to evac (twice). In the process I lost my clothes again. On the shuttle people were milling about shoving people. As people on the shuttle typically do. I walked around the shuttle a few times looking for some loose clothing, but didn't find any and the few corpses on the shuttle weren't wearing uniforms. One person without an ID was just vibing off in their own corner, and I mistook them as SSD. So I walked up to them and began to strip them. After I got their clothes off, they came back and shoved me into a wall knocking me down. I tried to say I needed your clothes quickly, and I was going to apologize and give their clothes back. But they began to beat me. They hit me a few times, and I so I drew my disabler and disabled them. Because I had previously lost all my clothes I lost my cuffs which had been in my pocket, and because the round had like 30 seconds left in it at this point (we were nearly to centcomm) I just decided to space the guy. So I did. They got violent with me first afterall.
Why you think you should be unbanned: They instigated violence first. I would have apologized and given the clothes back after realizing they weren't afk if they had simply used words. That being said, had I been killed as was their intention I wouldn't have complained as I clearly instigated the issue and not them. I was banned because the admin thought my actions escalated too drastically (paraphrasing, this is pretty much what the admin said but I don't remember the wording.) I don't really interpret my actions as breaking escalation policy as outlined in the rules on the TGSTATION wiki. In fact in the escalation policy it says "If you choose to retaliate with violence, you in turn have opened yourself up to violence. If you choose this route, do not expect admins to help you out if you die". I'm not sure why admins chose to get involved at all. We had less than a minute left in the round, and we had been on the shuttle. What happened was an In character issue, and banning me for it is a bit much. I don't think this will be resolved before my ban is even up, so this is really just appealing the note that will be left from the ban.
References of good conduct: I have several hundred hours on TG station, and have played off and on for a couple years. I play regularly and abide by the rules when I play, I dont really have any references other than that.


No bad blood to the admin, or the other party involved. Not trying to stir anything up by posting this. I just didn't think the ban was right. So please don't take anything said in the post disrespectfully.
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Bdudy
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:54 pm
Byond Username: Bdudy

Re: [<Bdudy>] CataChaos - Ban note appeal

Post by Bdudy » #581387

Hi there. Firstly, thanks for taking the time to appeal. I'll go over some details from the following logs:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... attack.txt

To begin, here's where you stripped Uzedpickle of his clothing on the emergency shuttle (irrelevant lines happening elsewhere cutout).
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2020-11-12 01:23:34.825] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has started stripping the emergency firesuit off Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (165,119,13))
[2020-11-12 01:23:43.607] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has stripped the emergency firesuit off Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (165,119,13))
[2020-11-12 01:23:46.698] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has started stripping the scientist's jumpsuit off Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (165,119,13))
[2020-11-12 01:23:52.569] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has stripped the scientist's jumpsuit off Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (165,119,13))
Here's where the scuffle starts. These attack logs include you, Uzedpickle, and another player who involves themselves in the fight (irrelevant lines happening elsewhere cutout).
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2020-11-12 01:24:01.550] ATTACK: Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) has shoved CataChaos/(Thes Pian) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 99)  (Emergency Shuttle (164,120,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:03.858] ATTACK: Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) has kicked CataChaos/(Thes Pian) (NEWHP: 98)  (Emergency Shuttle (163,120,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:05.049] ATTACK: Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) has kicked CataChaos/(Thes Pian) (NEWHP: 93.6)  (Emergency Shuttle (163,120,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:07.150] ATTACK: Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) has attempted to punch CataChaos/(Thes Pian) (NEWHP: 93.6)  (Emergency Shuttle (163,119,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:09.172] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (Emergency Shuttle (159,120,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:09.577] ATTACK: Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) has punched CataChaos/(Thes Pian) (NEWHP: 91.4)  (Emergency Shuttle (160,121,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:10.058] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at [shuttle seat] with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (Emergency Shuttle (159,124,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:10.883] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,127,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:10.985] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,128,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:11.764] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,130,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:11.822] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (160,131,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:12.307] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (Emergency Shuttle (161,131,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:12.358] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot ThatchedRooves/(Max Unk) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100)  (Emergency Shuttle (161,131,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:14.389] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at [potted plant] with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (Emergency Shuttle (161,130,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:14.390] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot ThatchedRooves/(Max Unk) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100)  (Emergency Shuttle (161,130,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:15.931] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (160,129,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:17.260] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at [shuttle seat] with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (Emergency Shuttle (159,126,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:17.261] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,126,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:17.836] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at [floor] with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (Emergency Shuttle (159,126,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:17.838] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,126,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:18.418] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,128,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:18.525] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,128,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:20.084] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has grabbed Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) passive grab (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,127,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:21.311] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,127,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:21.312] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,127,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:22.372] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has fired at Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam from Emergency Shuttle (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,127,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:22.373] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shot Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,127,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:23.580] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has grabbed Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,127,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:28.072] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has attempted to neck grab Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) neck grab (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,124,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:29.113] ATTACK: ThatchedRooves/(Max Unk) has shoved CataChaos/(Thes Pian) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 93.8)  (Emergency Shuttle (160,124,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:33.057] ATTACK: ThatchedRooves/(Max Unk) has grabbed CataChaos/(Thes Pian) passive grab (NEWHP: 94.2)  (Emergency Shuttle (160,124,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:34.126] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shoved Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (160,125,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:34.386] ATTACK: ThatchedRooves/(Max Unk) has grabbed CataChaos/(Thes Pian) passive grab (NEWHP: 94.2)  (Emergency Shuttle (160,124,13))
[2020-11-12 01:24:35.227] ATTACK: CataChaos/(Thes Pian) has shoved Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) (NEWHP: 92)  (Emergency Shuttle (159,125,13))
The last shove is where the fight ends, and presumably the shove that ejects Uzedpickle out of the shuttle and into space.

While it was a hectic round with nuke-ops and mass plasmaflooding, them retaliating against you with a few punches after you rob them of their clothing isn't justification for them to be round removed (in this case, disablered and then spaced from shuttle mid-flight), even if the round is almost over. With this, and after going over these logs again, I don't see any reason to lift the ban.
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PrinceThespian
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 pm
Byond Username: CataChaos

Re: [<Bdudy>] CataChaos - Ban note appeal

Post by PrinceThespian » #581403

Hi, thanks for taking time to reply.

So I apologize if my post made it seem like I spaced them because it had been a hectic round. All that exposition was trying to explain why I was stripping them of their clothing in the first place. I don't think had I broken a rule, it could of been excused due to it being a hectic round. I just don't think I broke a rule. My defense is that I followed escalation policy, they attacked me so I attacked back.

Also not denying how the fight went down, what you posted lines up with my story.


So once again they attacked me first. Multiple times, not just a single punch. Had I had cuffs I would have subdued them that way, but I didn't. The only way I had to get rid of a threat to me was space. Had I cuffed them, and waited the half a minute until we got to centcomm to kill them this would be no different.

Anyway, the player I killed died from being spaced after the round was over. Where killing a player would have been allowed. So really, wasn't exactly round removed.

[2020-11-12 01:25:18.223] GAME: 01:25:18.223] GAME: The round has ended.

[2020-11-12 01:26:10.063] EMOTE: 01:26:10.063] EMOTE: Uzedpickle/(Slimdick Jim) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Space (167,9,4))



Again, I mean no disrespect. I just still fail to see how what I did violates escalation policy. If you would like to say its because I round removed them, they didn't die until after the round ended. Thank you for your time.

*edit: formatting.
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Domitius
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:30 am
Byond Username: Domitius
Github Username: DomitiusKnack

Re: [<Bdudy>] CataChaos - Ban note appeal

Post by Domitius » #581415

You round removed them since you put the other guy in an area where he had no chance of being recovered and would definitely die, it's regardless of his "actual death" time.

Stealing from others is not a passive crime, it's something you actively do and it is malicious. In this case you were stripping them with the intent to steal their uniform.

To wrap this up you actively started a hostile scenario which gave them leeway to escalate the situation in self-defense, you then decided to disable them and toss them from the shuttle. If you had already put the other player down with your disabler they are no longer a threat to you so you can walk away from the situation but you decided in your own words "The only way I had to get rid of a threat to me was space."

While finding an area on the shuttle to run away to is a considerable task there is no sign of an attempt or at trying to de-escalate the situation that you started. A path you could had taken after you disabled them was simply apologizing and walking away.

As a non-antagonist you do not have the right to start shit and then round-remove other players when they retaliate.

This ban will be upheld.
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