[FatalX1] Ricardomilos - Banned for Fair Escalation

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knewtoomuch
 
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[FatalX1] Ricardomilos - Banned for Fair Escalation

Postby knewtoomuch » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:34 pm #582388

BYOND account: Ricardomilos
Character name: Uranus XDE
Ban type: Server/Job(?)
Ban length: 2 Days
Ban reason: As an assistant, killed a clown and his uranium golem because the clown dragged the golem to him, whilst uranium golems do irradiate you, you jumped straight to murdering both on the first instance, massive escalation, you had other options to deal with this and chose the wrong one.
Time ban was placed: 17:07
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 151287
Your side of the story: A clown used reactive tesla armor to stun me and then dragged a uranium golem onto me. I killed the clown and golem.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I was already suffering toxin damage due to breathing in co2 gas while recovering the chaplain's body from lavaland so what the clown did was at best grief and at worst attempted murder. I was getting messages to the effect of 'Uranus XDE is sputtering!' so I knew for a fact I was suffering radiation poisoning because of the clown and I killed him in turn. There is literally no way of justifying what he did considering he was a non antag and I did nothing to him prior in the round - radiation poisoning is difficult to undo at best and considering how understaffed the medical department was (the reason I wasn't able to deal with the initial toxin damage) I was basically stuck like that for the rest of the round. I have no idea how killing someone for a. very clearly doing harm (via the tesla armor) and b. doing something that permanently detriments me is unfair, and if I was in the position of the clown I would 100% expect to end up dead. Considering the person who played the clown was bad mouthing me in OOC at round end I can't imagine that I was reported in good faith, and Fatal's only justification for banning me in response to all of this is that the staff believes this was a "dick move." And griefing somebody only to ahelp them on death isn't? I have no idea why this warranted a ban.

I'm also a little frustrated that Fatal acts like I was somehow unfair to the uranium golem for killing them. The literal only function of uranium golems is to do passive damage to people via radiation. I've seen uranium golems get by security killed in the past in the context of xenobiology making them, even though they haven't yet done anything (much less allowed themselves to be used as a weapon by the clown) so I'm not sure why this is even an issue.
References of good conduct: N/A



Fatal
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Re: [FatalX1] Ricardomilos - Banned for Fair Escalation

Postby Fatal » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:23 pm #582393

Seems you really didn't listen to what I was telling you in the conversation we had earlier when you think the only justification for banning you was "that it was a dick move"

I clearly stated to you, and it's even in your ban reason, that this was over escalation, you had many other options for dealing with this and chose to murder 2 people instead as a non-antagonist, but hey, let's pull up some logs and go through what happened, however, I did speak to adminbus about this before banning you and the general consensus was that this was "a dick move" and that you were after valids

Links to logs:

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... attack.txt

Spoiler:
This is the first instance I see of anything going on, and the clown is dragging his new friend uranium golem with him

[2020-11-30 16:56:44.153] ATTACK: SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) has grabbed crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Research and Development (115,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:56:50.671] ATTACK: SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) has grabbed crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Research Division (120,91,2))

Between the clown grabbing the golem and you stunning the clown here, I can't find any instance of either the golem, or the clown, hitting the clown, to trigger any stun reaction, given that you are also able to stun the clown here, if you were stunned, it wasn't for long (but by all means, trawl through the logs to find the clown or golem hitting the clown to trigger the reactive armor stun you claim happened)

[2020-11-30 16:57:06.158] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has stunned SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) (NEWHP: 75.9) (Research Division (119,90,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:10.274] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has shaken SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) (NEWHP: 75.9) (Research Division (120,90,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:11.074] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has stunned SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) (NEWHP: 75.9) (Research Division (120,88,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:11.610] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has shaken SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) (NEWHP: 75.9) (Research Division (120,88,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:12.903] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has grabbed SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) passive grab (NEWHP: 75.9) (Research Division (120,90,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:12.909] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has slipped on the [PDA-Killer Space Clown (Clown)] (Research Division (120,90,2))

The golem here slips at 12 seconds past the minute, whilst you have the clown in a passive grab, 9 seconds later, you decide to go lethal, instead of running away from the slipped golem

[2020-11-30 16:57:21.645] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: 75.9) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:21.722] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: 75.9) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:22.111] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: 45.8) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:22.203] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: 45.8) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:22.863] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: 15.8) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:22.952] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: 15.8) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:23.780] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: -14.2) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:23.861] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: -14.2) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:24.388] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: -44.1) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:24.456] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: -44.1) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:24.974] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: -74.1) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:25.042] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: -74.1) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:25.481] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: -96.6) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:25.541] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: -96.6) (Research Division (130,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:25.550] ATTACK: SolaAqua/(Killer Space Clown) has died (BRUTE: 210, BURN: 29, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0) (Research Division (129,99,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:31.002] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has grabbed *no key*/(Killer Space Clown) passive grab (NEWHP: -126.6) (Research Division (128,99,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:33.425] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has grabbed *no key*/(Killer Space Clown) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -126.6) (Research Division (129,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:33.942] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has slipped on the [PDA-Killer Space Clown (Clown)] (Research Division (128,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:35.700] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: 100) (Research Division (124,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:36.041] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has shot crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with 9mm bullet (NEWHP: 100) (Research Division (124,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:57:36.237] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with 9mm bullet from Research Division (NEWHP: 86.5) (Research Division (124,100,2))

There's a lot more shooting here at the golem which I'm not going to include because there's a lot of it

As demonstrated earlier, you had stun capability, which you used again

[2020-11-30 16:58:00.487] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has stunned crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) (NEWHP: 22.4) (Research Division (126,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:58:04.294] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has stunned crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) (NEWHP: 22.4) (Research Division (124,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:58:04.646] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has slipped on the [PDA-Killer Space Clown (Clown)] (Research Division (123,101,2))

Golem friend is still determined to save his clown master and has not even fought back

[2020-11-30 16:58:17.432] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has grabbed *no key*/(Killer Space Clown) passive grab (NEWHP: -126.6) (Research Division (123,100,2))

[2020-11-30 16:58:19.886] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has stunned crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) (NEWHP: 22.4) (Research Division (123,99,2))
[2020-11-30 16:58:24.140] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has stunned crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) (NEWHP: 22.4) (Research Division (122,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:58:28.107] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has attacked crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 17.9) (Research Division (122,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:58:29.086] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has attacked crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 13.4) (Research Division (122,100,2))
[2020-11-30 16:58:31.723] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has attacked crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 8.9) (Research Division (123,101,2))
[2020-11-30 16:58:32.974] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has attacked crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 4.4) (Research Division (123,101,2))

The harm batoning continues for quite some time

[2020-11-30 16:58:51.112] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has attacked crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) with stun baton (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -55.5) (Research Division (122,99,2))


For some reason after this, you then decide to shoot...science

[2020-11-30 16:59:22.747] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at [window] with 9mm bullet from Research Division (Research Division (121,82,2))
[2020-11-30 16:59:23.348] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at [window] with 9mm bullet from Research Division (Research Division (121,82,2))
[2020-11-30 16:59:24.064] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at [grille] with 9mm bullet from Research Division (Research Division (121,82,2))
[2020-11-30 16:59:25.146] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at [grille] with 9mm bullet from Research Division (Research Division (121,82,2))
[2020-11-30 16:59:25.900] ATTACK: Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) has fired at [grille] with 9mm bullet from Research Division (Research Division (121,82,2))

There's more of this but it's not particularly relevant so I'm not going to include the rest

The golem actually takes some time to die, however, the lack of oxygen damage here tells me he didn't succumb and besides one other person hitting him once, this is all on you

[2020-11-30 16:59:38.541] ATTACK: Edfet/(Jayda Bickerson) has kicked crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) (NEWHP: -71.2) (Research Division (122,100,2))

[2020-11-30 17:01:07.736] ATTACK: crazyclown12/(Uranium Golem (311)) has died (BRUTE: 213.3, BURN: 0, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0) (Research Division (123,100,2))


Alright, logs be most long, however, I can see that you spent pretty much 3 minutes in science attacking both other players, who, from the logs, I can see, never attack you once, you then claim you are dying to radiation, which, to be honest, the reason you spent so long getting radiation, was your own fault, you could have simply...stunned the uranium golem, and walked away, as you clearly had stun weaponry available

Unless there's some magic rule I'm unaware of, a freshly spawned uranium golem is not "valid" and neither is the master who created it, and as I say, I asked in adminbus about the golem to get a second opinion, and they agreed it was not a valid kill

I see no reason to lift this ban, the toxin damage you were suffering from going to lavaland is your problem, not the clowns and the golem, and looking at your health at the time, you had exactly 74.2

[2020-11-30 16:59:41.774] ATTACK: Doguinho17/(Nicole Nya) has shoved Ricardomilos/(Uranus XDE) (NEWHP: 74.2) (Robotics Lab (112,86,2))

This is not exactly critical, and if you felt it was, you should have gone to medical to get sorted instead of research

The radiation a single golem gives is also not immediately life threatening to the point of needing to murder the two people involved in this

Unless you can provide any information that I haven't found, I can't see any reason to lift this ban

EDIT: I also did some testing in the thunderdome to test how long it takes for being stood next to a uranium golem to kill you, I timed it at roughly 15 minutes of full exposure from a single tile away, although you go into crit a good couple of minutes before that


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