[BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

CastorTroy23 · Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:07 pm

BYOND account: CastorTroy23
Character name: John Irish Character name at time of ban
Ban type: Server
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Pointlessly hostile when bwoinked, and has been talked to by other admins on multiple occasions for this. We are tired of dealing with you. Goodbye.
Time ban was placed: 2020-10-27 13:08:04
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 149168 ( https://sb.atlantaned.space/ticket/dac99d7d355014f8 )
Your side of the story: Bwoinked for a legitimate reason, then banned for another one. Nothing much else to it
Why you think you should be unbanned: The ban reason is feeble at best. As explained in the ahelp, I've been apm'd before for either doing things that were valid or things that I did not do, and it gets frustrating after a while. If you are offended by "jannie" and "fucking jannie" please grow some thicker skin banbot
References of good conduct: Colonial Marines

Post by **Boris** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:17 pm #584759

Have you improved?

CastorTroy23 · Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:21 pm

If by improved you mean just not calling you a jannie in ahelps, then yeah, sure. I been improved since day 1 my man

Post by **Boris** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:25 pm #584762

Denied.
See you in a year.

CastorTroy23 · Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:28 pm

sup mr. Admin I'd like a headmin to take a look at this appeal

Naloac · Post by **Naloac** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:16 pm #584775

Ive alot to say about this appeal, the ban in general and the entire context around it. Ill take awhile to get it all together and post in the appeal. It wont be a headmin stance but more context around the entire thing + my personal headmin stance.. Also castortroy you sent possibly the worst reply you could have you goddamn chimp.

CastorTroy23 · Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:38 pm

Naloac · Post by **Naloac** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:09 pm #584789

Buckle up folks because this is a long one. I also invite anyone to point out where I miss or mis understand something in this.
So castortroys note history is bad, Really fucking bad. hes got around 50 notes almost all of them are bad.

This ban ahelp went like this

Spoiler:

Asay convos between other admins went like this

Spoiler:

The ahelp convo continues like this

Spoiler:

This is due to the other secret notes castortroy has gotten.

Spoiler:

one of these notes happened due to this

Spoiler:

this lead to him being noted for lying in ahelps but unless im making a mistake the only person I see saying that he was being dragged around was the person who it happened to, Please any admin point out if Ive made a missed something here.

some of his more recent noted before he got banned where these ones

Spoiler:

And the smoking gun behind this entire thing

[2020-08-04 16:11:32.774] OOC: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) "Castor you're like 3 days from a permaban I wouldn't" (Brig (111,169,2))

then a day after this

Threatening to ban someone is against admin conduct. getting told your going to get banned by an admin as a threat. Then being involved in alot of the bars that later are used to perma ban to a player is so incredibly slimely. Since this was brought up to me by another admin I have said this should be overturned just due to the context of this. ANYONE would be shitty in ahelps if your being bwoinked for no reason AND you've been threatened and noted by one of the admins. Also in the logs where castor and a mech killed sticky, I dont believe that castortroy knew it was stickymayhem since its a random name from me checking. Also the n word useage stuff was before we had a rule against it unless im mixing up the dates.

I have since being informed of some of this wanted to overturn it. I dont believe boris was in the wrong to issue a ban. and I find no reason why a player after being threatened and noted multiple times WOULDNT be shitty in ahelps and call out jannies for being pricks. The banning note was when he was bwoinked for something that in my knowledge ISNT against the rules.

*also I was really tired when I got all the logs for this and put it all together so theres probably a mistake or two please point them out if you spot one*

Naloac · Post by **Naloac** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:49 pm #584798

I forgot to post the logs for all of these

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 2/game.log
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 6/game.log
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 8/game.log
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 2/game.log
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 1/game.log
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 1/game.log

bobbahbrown · Post by **bobbahbrown** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:49 pm #584814

fixed links:
round 143692
round 143686
round 149168
round 143532
round 143591
round 143951

santas greetings,
bobbah 'bee' brown

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Well since I've been invoked I think it's appropriate that I make some comments to clear up this hilariously deranged conspiracy theory from Lepi. Luckily Lepi's concerns were executed by proxy through Domitius and I was warned for this by the headmins privately so I've already debunked it to my own satisfaction and have the logs I already dug up a while ago to combat this.

Real quick:
1. I give zero fucks about whether castortroy comes back or not. Compared to most admins I gave him the most leeway when it came to his behaviour, attempted to rehabilitate him into being a decent player and had lengthy good faith adminpms with him. He could probably be a fine player in a decent environment and with minimal work on his part.
2. I'm just going to debunk the clearly fictitious stuff from Lepi for the sake of the truth. I've been warned privately, this is not a personal defence and I don't care how I come out looking
3. Lepi doesn't like me, which is fine, I'm not likeable, but it happens to be relevant. They've looked deep for dumb conspiracy shit to attack me over before and this seems to trigger their spidey senses again.
4. If someone is pointlessly hostile, which castotroy frequently is and was, it should not get them banned. It can absolutely result in admins spending more time looking into cases because they doubt your verdict. This will naturally result in more time, attention and scrutiny being placed on hostile players because they tend to not be straightforward in ahelps, and in this case castortroy has many instances of misrepresenting situations in ahelps which later get disproven by a checking of the logs.

First set of logs:
Lepi implies that I'm involved in this "1 instance of being talked about being pointlessly hostile" which castortroy immediately follows up with

[2020-10-27 13:05:03.899] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CastorTroy23/(Ana Gray)->Borisvanmemes/(Tam Lin): i was hostile because it has happened every now and then that i get bwoinked for doing something valid or for things i actually havent done

So he says it was just me who bwoinked him once, then follows up with it happening on a regular basis immediately afterwards. So he's already dunked himself. But no this is a london vegan conspiracy so HOLD ON TO IT FOR THE BIG BOMBSHELL LEPI CONSPIRACY ENDING

This is due to the other secret notes castortroy has gotten.

Claim: Castortroy gets called out for being repeatedly hostile purely because of these two notes and no other reason. Poor boy has just been unfairly targeted!

Further Claim: One of these notes occurs because of the clever diabolical manipulation of a london based vegan admin out to get our poor boy!

Proof: Our poor boy was noted for lying based on just one london vegans testimony! Vekter, a notoriously unscrupulous admin who never looks at the logs ever and is famous for not being detail oriented, clearly took our london vegan's testimony and jumped to a conclusion with no further evidence!

[2020-08-06 23:51:00.188] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Vekter/(Ismael Leech)->CastorTroy23/(John Irish): I have more than one person telling me you were dragging his corpse around preventing someone from helping him. I'm not likely to believe you over other people given your history of lying in ahelps.

Oh it looks like Vekter did speak to multiple people but we'll gloss over that when did facts ever deserve to get in the way of a fun conspiracy theory.

Further Proof:
Watch me ctrl+f stickymayhem to see whether an extremely active admin during the period along with an extremely active player well known for getting into a lot of shit have multiple interactions! Woah they do? HOLD ON BUCKO HERE COMES THE PROOF:

[2020-08-04 16:11:32.774] OOC: Stickymayhem/(Jack Steiner) "Castor you're like 3 days from a permaban I wouldn't" (Brig (111,169,2))

This quote is what I got warned for. I've explained it previously (months ago, in front of Lepi, maybe he didn't read it but he's the one that seems to have had an axe to grind so I can't see why he wouldn't) to the headmins in the following way. Obviously if you have certain opinions of me you're going to assume I'm lying and that's fine, there's no way to read my mind and intent. I'll quote from my explanations to the headmins.

For the sake of I dunno, potentially crossing some rule or line or giving Lepi and excuse to be annoyed and dumpster this post, I'll only post my explanations and nothing from the Headmins, though they should feel free to add extra context from the discussion if they feel it's needed. I'm happy for anything and everything from that chat to be made public.

I acknowledge it was a dumb statement that I won't be making again, but it was misread, it seems to have never been brought up by castor himself except maybe privately, and it was sat on for months. At the time the headmins came to me it felt like they were sitting on an excuse to get rid of me.

Threatening to ban someone is against admin conduct. getting told your going to get banned by an admin as a threat. Then being involved in alot of the bars that later are used to perma ban to a player is so incredibly slimely. Since this was brought up to me by another admin I have said this should be overturned just due to the context of this. ANYONE would be shitty in ahelps if your being bwoinked for no reason AND you've been threatened and noted by one of the admins. Also in the logs where castor and a mech killed sticky, I dont believe that castortroy knew it was stickymayhem since its a random name from me checking. Also the n word useage stuff was before we had a rule against it unless im mixing up the dates.

It wasn't a threat for a ban, I never followed up on that threat, that threat has no relation to further admin conduct towards him from other admins. I also debunked the claim that castortroy's behaviour got worse after the "Threat". The extremely reasonable ahelp logs I posted with him above occur AFTER the threat, which shows a clear improvement in behaviour towards admin after the "Threat" which seems to disprove the psychological evaluation from Lepi that one poorly phrased retaliation from an admin utterly ruined this young man's mental capacity for positive social interaction, which is a worse insult to castortroy than anything I've ever said. I cleared this all up months ago with the headmins but Lepi has chosen to ignore that context assuming I wouldn't bother to say the same stuff here I said then I guess. Lepi is also claiming that somehow the note about the mech thing was due to metagrudging? I don't static name and metagrudging was never a factor in that case at all, so it seems weird to bring it up. Either you're desperate to build a case out of whatever scraps you can find or you're deeply unfamiliar with your own evidence and scoring repeated own goals. The one short OOC ban for saying "niggers can die" was not a ban for saying the n word. He said that shit all the time, but calling directly for a race of people to be killed just to be edgy in OOC was an easy Rule 1 call that was well supported by adminbus. You should have brought it up then if you had a problem with it. I used the statement amongst many others as examples for why a bigotry ban occurred which our host very kindly put up in the original bigotry ban thread.

I have very little stake in this overall. I have no problem with castor. Hell I'd endorse him for a probationary return because I saw plenty of potential in the guy to be decent in a better environment. But ultimately Lepi's hilarious conspiracy theory is really desperately cobbled together. I won't guess at a motive for this. It doesn't seem to be an attack on me but just an excuse to get castor back. I'd love to know why he's fixated on this particular issue but any look at the facts and his case falls apart even within the quotes he posted himself. I could have delved deeper into the logs to build an stronger counter argument and if there's an attempt to push back against this maybe I will. Christmas got cancelled, I got time.

Spoiler:

Post by **Vekter** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:39 am #585029

Regarding the situation Lepi noted between Castor and myself: I've gone ahead and removed that note from his account. That situation was honestly very muddy and I probably could have done a better job investigating instead of just going off what deadchat was saying.

I have strong opinions on whether or not Castor should be unbanned, but that specific situation shouldn't be counted against him.

Naloac · Post by **Naloac** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:44 pm #585187

Stickymayhem wrote: words

Vekter took off his own note because he didnt investigate enough. A section of your argument is that *I dont like you* which means nothing if what ive brought up is valid. you cant argue that is a conspiracy theory when it does hold merit. You did unfairly target him. Which you self admit in your 3 days meme. Saying it then when you get in shit for saying it and trying to explain it away as *oh I really wanted him to just get better" with one ahelp that happened after you did this doesnt really mean much.

Stickymayhem · Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:03 pm

Vekter took off his own note because he didnt investigate enough.

That note doesn't even do anything for "THE CASE" and if I was him and cared about drama I'd do the same to get my name out of this thread.

A section of your argument is that *I dont like you* which means nothing if what ive brought up is valid.

I offered plenty of evidence for your narrative being incorrect I just think that's a reasonable motive considering you go around vomemojing my name in discord for some reason. I edited this out anyway because it was more hostile than i needed to be to make my case.

you cant argue that is a conspiracy theory when it does hold merit. You did unfairly target him.

gonna need some evidence that I unfairly targeted him chief. You're saying "This isn't a conspiracy theory because it's a true conspiracy theory based on me saying it's true". Without evidence this is a self fulfilling point.

Which you self admit in your 3 days meme.

You somehow keep ignoring the inconvenient context with that 3 days meme. Your entire conspiracy theory is based on the following:

"When sticky offers context for that quote that is backed up by the banter before the quote in the full logs, as well as his behaviour towards castortroy and his charitable representation of castortroy to other admins that want him banned in adminbus, I assert that he is lying and that he actually meant to threaten this random player"

Saying it then when you get in shit for saying it and trying to explain it away as *oh I really wanted him to just get better" with one ahelp that happened after you did this doesnt really mean much.

Case and point. If you believe I'm lying throughout this whole thing, then you're going to think it was a threat. God forbid I look through your logs of memes and find something you clearly didn't mean as a threat and make a whole conspiracy theory about it. You have the same bantz as I do it'd be incredibly easy.

These assertions are really low effort. You've got like three rickety foundations for this ban being unfair and even if I did threaten the guy, which is itself ridiculous, you'd have to simultaneously concede that this guy was so close to the line that one mean thing from one admin turned him into one of the worst players on the server, while claiming that he was still good enough to not deserve a ban. It's a mess, it's only consistent from the optical standard of "I am the Terry headmin and dont like THE ADMIN CABAL"

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:35 pm

Given that this ban reason was explicitly for castor's behavior in ahelps, we examined this by looking at the two previous notes he received relating to ahelp behavior. One of these notes was discussed with Vekter and he determined the situation relating to it to be too muddy for the note to be valid. The other note placed was determined to be less about any argumentative behavior in the ahelp and moreso in regards to some evasiveness/ignoring details in the situation they'd been bwoinked for, though no real explicit lying. Given this information we believe a ban for being "pointlessly hostile when bwoinked" is excessive and a note would have been better served. While we understand the combative behavior given the previous history with sticky coming off as threatening a ban, that still does not excuse you being combative in this ahelp or any other.

So we've opted for an unban with a vote of two to one.

All that being said, you should be on your best behavior going forward as given your lengthy note history a permaban would not be unheard of.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Accept appeal, seeing as how this ban was explicitly for ahelp behavior I think its important to look at the notes relating to that specifically, had this been a more encompassing ban such as a Rule 1 I'd likely have considered the other recent notes. Though even then I'm not sure how I'd end up ruling given how sticky came across as in OOC towards you.
Domitius: Reject appeal, the 12 relevant notes in the three months prior to your ban documents your toxic behavior very well. Notes that include you promoting suicide, promoting the killing of ethnic groups, inability to follow escalation, and being notorious to deal with in ahelps. I do not want anyone else on our team to waste their time having to deal with you when you have a well demonstrated inability to grow or become better.
Naloac: Accept appeal, play better because all eyes will be on you.

/tg/Station 13

[BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

[BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Re: [BorisVanMemes] CastorTroy23 - sticks and stones ban

Who is online