[JusticeGoat] Kipse -banned for "murderbone" as traitor

[Kipse]

BYOND account: Kipse
Character name: Frances Chains
Ban type: Network wide server ban
Ban length: 2 days
Ban reason:"The ban reason is: Caught murderboning the crew with deadly nanites as traitor. This is in direct violation of https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Roleplay_R ... rboning.3F Next time you want to use something that will indiscriminately kill on manuel please ahelp first."
Time ban was placed: 2021-03-23 07:28:08
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 158773
Your side of the story: I had rolled traitor at roundstart as a scientist with the goals of getting the captain's medal and assasinate the HoP. Deciding that with the amount of security, and how both of my traitor goals involved getting ahold of command staff, I would need to use my job's abilities to my advantage and started working on nanites. Initially the nanites were just healing nanites with a dermal button feature, but I then began to set my plan of poisoning the nanites into motion upon emagging a borg to help me against the command staff, and the AI who was suspicious of me. I made sure to tell some of my coworkers in the science department as well as the mime who I had found out was a fellow traitor to NOT get the nanites solely to PREVENT straight up murderboning everyone. Deciding to act out my plan, I uploaded a poison, sleep, and cellular degradation program to the nanite cloud, which was shut down by the crew, and I feigned innocence to avoid getting caught by security and said that I had seen the clown do it instead. After making counsel with my subverted borg ally and the traitor mime, I decided to upload the programs again with an added paralysis feature, that way the mime and I could act on our goals. Doing so was successful, most of command staff and security had been disabled by the nanites, and the HoP was brought to medbay at which point I killed him with an e-sword. Afterwards a lizard had walked in to me explaining the success of my plan to the mime, and which we had to kill upon fearing he would rat out our conversation. Around this time, the mime also retrieved the captain's medal for me who was presumably killed by the nanites as well. Soon after the AI caught onto us, and was subverted to aid the mime and I. At this point we decided to call the shuttle with our missions being complete, and decided to head to a pod, where I met an assistant who was interrogating me claiming I had "Ian". The shuttle would depart soon and I decided I did not have time to deal with a prying assistant who kept shoving me about because I refused to be searched by him. I attacked and killed him, and then headed to the pod where the mime and I successfully greentexted, and from there where JusticeGoat boinked me for "murderboning" asking if I had even read the manuel rules. I explained to him the motive of my using nanites to debilitate command staff and security, and how this is a feature that is native to my department as a scientist, also noting that my sole intention was NOT to murderbone considering the fact that I WARNED my coworkers beforehand, and even assisted in the revival and surgeries of innocent people caught in the collateral of the nanites in medbay. I even made sure to tell both of my emagged mediborgs to go to medbay to heal up the injured and revive the dead once I had completed my goals. I explained as well how I have done this multiple times before on manuel (utilizing nanites) and he claimed that I got away with it "simply because I was not caught." I then explained to him how it would be very hard to NOT get caught using this tactic with admins online, due to its apparent "mass destructive" nature according to him. From here, I was given a 12 hour network wide server ban without a response to my statement, and the next day it was seemingly extended to a 2 day ban.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I think my ban for 'murderbone' is unjustified for multiple reasons. The chief reason being how I acted in good faith sparing and aiding innocents multiple times such as by warning those around me to not get the nanites, sticking around in medbay after the completion of my objectives to heal dead and injured people, and directing my two borgs to medbay as well with directives to heal and revive as if they were not emagged, as well as open a pathway to medical supplies for a miner to heal his friend who was affected by nanites. The other reason I feel this is justified is because this is no different in 'indiscriminate killing' than if I were to use a syndicate bomb in a populated area, which would ultimately kill innocent non-security, non-target players in the vicinity through the blast, and the resulting depressurization. The point JusticeGoat brings up regarding how "Next time you want to use something that will indiscriminately kill on manuel please ahelp first.", leads me to think that this same logic should be applied to something such as purchasing a syndicate bomb or romerol, which I would venture to say has a place in the meta solely for causing as much collateral damage as possible. I would even go as far as to say that my nanite attack was 'cleaner' and less discriminate than a syndicate bomb or romerol, due to the relative ease in removing nanites, and the complete lack of damage to the station's physical integrity and atmospheric integrity. I have done this method on manuel plenty of times, along with releasing harmful virurses as a viro traitor and have never had any admin take issue with it until now, and I believe that this ruling is inconsistent and fails to account for preventative measures I took solely to prevent murderboning, and also fails to account for the totally legal traitor items available that could cause even more collateral damage and death of innocents than my nanites could. For these reasons I would say it is a very large stretch to call what I did 'murderboning' by any means. As a traitor there is bound to be collateral damage to innocents.

[Kipse]

I'd also like to include how the rules he sent to me literally permit something like this to be done as it falls under the "collateral" section regarding murderboning.

"• Collateral. If you for instance bomb your target, it is not considered murderboning if other individuals die in the explosion. This can include self-defense situations where individuals dying from a result of being in a crowd after you would also not be considered murderbone."

My objective target was the HoP who happened to have nanites, as well taking out command staff and security who all had nanites to make my job easier. Anyone else who fell under the effect of rogue nanites would surely be considered collateral damage to my goals.

[Timberpoes]

Since the in-game ban reason is missing it - The ban was for the events of shift 158770 where Kipse was a traitor.

For convenience of access, public logs for the shift are available at https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/158770?h=kipse in convenient form and https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-158770/ in raw form. Extended "blackbox" logging information such as explosion data can be pulled from https://sb.atlantaned.space/rounds/158770 instead.

[Cimika]

I have lifted your ban, as per JusticeGoat's request.

Edit to include Justice's post :

[Kipse]

I have lifted your ban, as per JusticeGoat's request.

thank you plenty

[JusticeGoat]

Hey after reviewing the ban with other admins, i had mistakenly believed that the collateral damage caused by the nanites counted as murderboning under the rp rules of Manuel. The note and ban has been scrubbed from your account, i was wrong and sorry for the mistake.

[Kipse]

Hey after reviewing the ban with other admins, i had mistakenly believed that the collateral damage caused by the nanites counted as murderboning under the rp rules of Manuel. The note and ban has been scrubbed from your account, i was wrong and sorry for the mistake.

No worries ,thanks for reading it through :)