[themidnightrose]Noodlecat - headrev survival instincts ban

[Noodlecat]

BYOND account: noodlecat
Character name: Crux CF
Ban type: security, Deathsquad, Abductor, Xenomorph, Blood Brother, Cultist, Operative, Revolutionary, Head Revolutionary, Spider, Swarmer
Ban length: 30240 minutes
Ban reason: As a Head Revolutionary, outed their fellow head revolutionaries to the extremely hostile security forces early in the round for an attempt at being gulagged isntead of executed. This led to three headrevs being executed, including themself. While MRP leads to interesting dynamics with antags and security, outing the leaders of the Revoulution for the tiniest possibility of escaping is a decently stupid idea.
Time ban was placed: 2021-09-16 02:26:18
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 169681
Your side of the story: So, as the head rev I went to convert people, so after some conversions sec got me for unrelated things, resulting in the bag check and reveal. I am about to be executed for being a headrev, I in a panicked state and currently being executed say “if you don’t kill me I will tell you who the other heads are”, they pause and let me speak, I tell them. I will say that I should have lied or something but the idea of lieing did not jump to my head as I was being executed, I will admit that not lieing there was a dick move and will avoid it in the future.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I was not aware that revealing the other headrevs to get gulauged instead of executed and possibly be able to escape was agains the rules, I definitely should of lied about who was the headrev, but I did not think about that in my panicked state. I will avoid it in the future. Also you mentioned in the ticket that this is like going up to a chaplain and asking to be deconverted if you were a cultists, this is just not true.
Part of this appeal was generated by Banbus 0.12.0

[Noodlecat]

This led to three headrevs being executed, including themself.

This was also revs revealed by the 20 minute mark, there was next to zero chance that it would of gone well. Being gulauged and possibly escaping was my best bet

[Fikou]

relaying response from the banning admin:
"Secban isn't supposed to be there, you are fully in the wrong due to how team antags are supposed to work, full response will be after 6pm CST."
i have unbanned you from security

[TheMidnghtRose]

I still stand by what I told you. Its a really shit move to out the leaders of your Team antag as a leader yourself. While I am sure that somewhere buried in policy is the proper one that states the whole reason why we have it so Team antags are not supposed to betray their Team, the closest ruling I could find that is documented about is it the one about Conflicts between Team Antags and the one about not being allowed to torture Team Antags for information detrimental to their teams.
You telling the security team specifically who one of the headrevs was led to them being almost immediately executed the second they were spotted. Shortly afterward the third one was executed too. I had added a fourth after that but they were caught quickly and banished to end the Revolution.

Conflicts between Team Antags: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 17#p326955
Toture of Team Antags for information of Team: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 04#p314848

[Noodlecat]

i was not aware of those admin rulings as they are not on the rule page on the wiki, i will take note of that in the future

[TheMidnghtRose]

There is a wikipage that lists completed Headmin Rulings and this is the link to it https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Headmin_Ru ... st_Rulings

Honestly do not know why it isn't more well known as I do know its been used before in appeals.

[Noodlecat]

Not a lot of people read the obscure side page, and even less of those people memorize said side page.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Rule 4 from the main TG rules, quoted word for word here:

Code: Select all

Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.

relevant section being

Code: Select all

Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team.

[Noodlecat]

Oh, yep I made a mistake, I will avoid it in the future but a three week ban for this seems excessive

[Noodlecat]

Also conversion antag bans just round remove you if you get converted, and that is extremely unfun

[Domitius]

Hey! I talked with MidnightRose and they asked me to forward to you that they are done with the appeal. If you feel the length continues to be unfair you are free to ask for a headmin to look over the situation otherwise I'll consider this appeal resolved and lock it in roughly 7 days.

Cheers!