[Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break

[sinfulbliss]

BYOND account: SinfulBliss
Character name: Axle Brady
Note Type: Triple Exlam (!!!)
Note reason/time:
Server you were playing on when noted: Sybil
Round ID: 169879
Your side of the story: The round was during lowpop Sybil (maybe 10-15 people). I set up some field wall generators and some emitters near the tram. I then announce on comms for people to vacate the tram area as it will be getting deconstructed. A couple people run over to board it intentionally, because they wanna die in a massive explosion since they were bored or something. Someone calls the tram and wham it's no longer functional.

I'm not sure what rule this breaks... Dankasaur said "grief," but who am I griefing? I cleaned up all the mess after, repaired the flooring so people could walk by it, and made sure any suicides that were still ensouled were brought to medbay. Honestly it was nothing more than redecorating the map to make it easier to traverse, along with the plus side of having a nice fireworks display.

If you delam the SM "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by messing up power. Breaking tram hurts no one, in fact it improved the round by creating a little drama for people to enjoy and also eliminating the greatest source of human harm on that map. No one was negatively impacted. I assume the admin will say I broke an "integral" part of the map and this is therefore griefing despite harming no one, but surely "grief" needs a victim to be grief right? The tram is not sentient...

[Dankasaur]

If you are intentionally breaking parts of the map for no reason that is griefing.

I've been reminded that you cannot appeal fact based notes. Since there isn't really a question of if you did it or not, this will be resolved in a few days.

[sinfulbliss]

Note implies it wasn’t acceptable and was griefing - this is what I’m contesting.

(Also triple exclam? Implies heavy wrongdoing)

[Dankasaur]

If you are intentionally breaking parts of the map for no reason that is griefing.

This is really a simple matter of being asked not to blow up the tram FNR. I don't know any other way to word it for you. The note is factual, you did blow up the tram by your own admittance and the note is not overly harsh or portraying the events incorrectly.

I'll lower the severity for you but that doesn't change the context of the situation at all.

[Vekter]

Note implies it wasn’t acceptable and was griefing - this is what I’m contesting.

(Also triple exclam? Implies heavy wrongdoing)

I don't know how to explain to you that intentionally breaking an important part of the map for no good reason is the definition of griefing.

[sinfulbliss]

Note implies it wasn’t acceptable and was griefing - this is what I’m contesting.

(Also triple exclam? Implies heavy wrongdoing)

I don't know how to explain to you that intentionally breaking an important part of the map for no good reason is the definition of griefing.

What definition are you using?

Griefing has to have a victim. I still don't see what rule disabling the tram violates.

[Mothblocks]

You're arguing semantics. The map is explicitly designed around the tram--destroying the tram is griefing.

Just like in your example:

If you delam the SM "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by messing up power

If you destroy the tram "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by destroying its main path of transportation. You can get around through the tunnels and the tracks just like how you could set up solars or temporary APCs when the power is out, but you are still griefing.

[sinfulbliss]

You're arguing semantics. The map is explicitly designed around the tram--destroying the tram is griefing.

Just like in your example:

If you delam the SM "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by messing up power

If you destroy the tram "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by destroying its main path of transportation. You can get around through the tunnels and the tracks just like how you could set up solars or temporary APCs when the power is out, but you are still griefing.

Destroying the tram's main path of transportation is not griefing the round because the only side effect is people walk to where they want to go now, and no one gets killed or maimed by the tram during its route on 10pop Sybil. It's simply restructuring the design of the map to be safer for the crew. On lowpop especially it is quite common for new players to just get mauled by the tram within 5 minutes of arriving, their bodies hidden somewhere on lower tram maints for 20 minutes before anyone even notices them, at which point they've already disconnected.

Regarding your analogy: delamming the SM also has the side effect of destroying literally all of engineering. That is, an entire department. Backup power doesn't replace that. On the other hand, removing tram and creating catwalks causes no harm to any department or role. Again perhaps we have different definitions of grief but if it doesn't have any victims it's not griefing anyone. Someone has to be there to grieve for it to be grief.

[sinfulbliss]

I've been reminded that you cannot appeal fact based notes. Since there isn't really a question of if you did it or not, this will be resolved in a few days.

The reason I am appealing this note is because its existence implies what I did was wrong. If I got noted for hacking an airlock, would I be unable to appeal that too because it's a factual account? The note is also not fact-based as it says I stopped the tram "FNR." I gave many reasons during the ahelp, and reiterated here, for stopping the tram.

I would appreciate a headmin opinion on whether my behavior here was improper or not. If it is not deemed improper it should not be a note.

[RaveRadbury]

The tram is crucial to station design and therefore should not be destroyed arbitrarily or "for safety" as a non-antagonist

Headmin Votes:
NamelessFairy - Uphold
Dragomagol - Uphold
RaveRadbury - Uphold