[Thunder12345] Oliva - Fight the power

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Oliva
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:59 pm
Byond Username: Oliva

[Thunder12345] Oliva - Fight the power

Post by Oliva » #616341

BYOND account: Oliva
Character name: Fredrico Unrobusto
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: As a miner, shot multiple people up with the banana staff,
prompting a sec officer to go after them. The officer shot a couple of lasers at them before
switching to disablers after they slipped the officer again and grabbed the laser. Oliva
started shooting back with lasers, as well as having their power miner, eventually this led to
the officer being killed, at which point they took the corpse into space and decapitated it.
You initiated this by acting like a shitter with mining loot, responding to an attempt to stop
you from being a shitter by killing the person doing so makes this killbaiting. If you have a
problem with security's behaviors you should adminhelp it instead of killing them.
Time ban was placed: 2021-10-10 16:19:27
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 171081
Your side of the story: Alright so i did my usual mining shit and come to station with 3 relevant items. Wings, honkstaff and dusty shard (unused). i get bored and start slipping people with the honk staff. i do it to pretty much anyone i see and even slip and run from people trying to attack me melee. But when i slipped norwell through the windows of bridge he decides to valid me. he chases me and shoots me twice with a caps laser and then switches to disabler while still having the laser in his hand. I then slip him and fight him with the same laser that he attacked me with. Him and 2 other greys harm baton me and he leaves my critted body in hallway and takes my staff. at this point i pop the shard and tell my holopara that we will find norwell and take my staff back. at first i shoved him to try to get my staff back but he kept lasering me, so i tell my holopara that we will kill him since he is just validing me at this point if it wasnt obvious before. we go around and over the course of 3-5 mins me and my holopara kill him and decapitate him. Also i dont know why thunder is lying in the ban reason the holopara only attacked after the first time i got critted.
Why you think you should be unbanned: Not only am i justified since norwell pretty much valided me over slipping him and i dont believe he did it on accident since he harm batoned and left my body in hallway. Thunders reasoning of "oh hes a seccer just let yourself be killed and ahelp" is dumb and it not only disrupts the round of the person being valided but if everyone followed this reasoning an antag whos dressed like sec would get away with killing everyone non sec since they would assume that they can ahelp them afterwards. and his obession with bringing up "mining loot" throughout the whole bwoink. Despite me using the honstaff as a long range joke slip and me only using the shard after i got critted makes me think that he has a grudge (like many do) against miners in general
References of good conduct: Me not attacking anyone else who tried to push or take the staff from me before hand
Anything else we should know: between this and the ban where i suggested that a clown killed a mime who air tank suicided round start (yes i actually got banned for joking that a clown killed a mime who suicided through comms). It just feels like admins are trying to pile up smaller bans to eventually justify a perma ban because some of them dont like me. Seen this shit in other servers and unless you fight over every single ban and note it pretty much always eventually ends up a perma
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Thunder11
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Re: [Thunder12345] Oliva - Fight the power

Post by Thunder11 » #616424

I'm going to break this one down and respond to each of your points in turn.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm Alright so i did my usual mining shit and come to station with 3 relevant items. Wings, honkstaff and dusty shard (unused). i get bored and start slipping people with the honk staff. i do it to pretty much anyone i see and even slip and run from people trying to attack me melee.
So to set the scene, you got bored and decided to entertain yourself by pissing off everyone else.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm But when i slipped norwell through the windows of bridge he decides to valid me. he chases me and shoots me twice with a caps laser and then switches to disabler while still having the laser in his hand. I then slip him and fight him with the same laser that he attacked me with.
Nowell goes after you because you're pissing off him and everyone else, when he starts shooting at you for being an absolute bellend you steal his gun and start lasering him.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm Him and 2 other greys harm baton me and he leaves my critted body in hallway and takes my staff. at this point i pop the shard and tell my holopara that we will find norwell and take my staff back.
You never thought to mention this part in the ticket, and in fact makes it look worse for you. The fight was over, the tool you were using to piss the entire crew off is confiscated, and you are alive. You then decide to go out and get your revenge for having your staff confiscated.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm at first i shoved him to try to get my staff back but he kept lasering me, so i tell my holopara that we will kill him since he is just validing me at this point if it wasnt obvious before.
You go back to instigate another fight, he shoots you because from his side you just came back to fuck with him for confiscating your staff, you decide this means you can kill him.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm we go around and over the course of 3-5 mins me and my holopara kill him and decapitate him.
The fight continues until you achieve your goal of round removing someone for confiscating an annoying grief tool.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm Also i dont know why thunder is lying in the ban reason the holopara only attacked after the first time i got critted.
You never mentioned the part about being critted and then initiating another fight, I'm entirely happy to edit the ban reason to clarify that the fight was actually over when you decided to go back for revenge.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm Not only am i justified since norwell pretty much valided me over slipping him and i dont believe he did it on accident since he harm batoned and left my body in hallway.
Over you slipping everyone, and given by the time you were critted you had already tried to kill him with his own gun he's not likely to be interested in taking you to medbay himself.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm Thunders reasoning of "oh hes a seccer just let yourself be killed and ahelp" is dumb and it not only disrupts the round of the person being valided but if everyone followed this reasoning an antag whos dressed like sec would get away with killing everyone non sec since they would assume that they can ahelp them afterwards.
This has been a longstanding policy that you can't kill seccies for doing their job, if you have a good reason to believe they aren't actually security you're free to kill them, but nothing you said ever suggested you believed he wasn't an officer. If you think sec is overescalating the solution is to adminhelp.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm and his obession with bringing up "mining loot" throughout the whole bwoink. Despite me using the honstaff as a long range joke slip and me only using the shard after i got critted makes me think that he has a grudge (like many do) against miners in general
Mining loot is a common general term for loot items which are obtained from lavaland. A honk staff is a joke slip the first time you use it, by your own admission you were going around hosing down anyone you saw. That stops being a joke and starts being annoying as fuck. You then used the power miner to get your revenge.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm Me not attacking anyone else who tried to push or take the staff from me before hand
Not relevant, not killing people is not an excuse for later killing someone.
Oliva wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:07 pm between this and the ban where i suggested that a clown killed a mime who air tank suicided round start (yes i actually got banned for joking that a clown killed a mime who suicided through comms). It just feels like admins are trying to pile up smaller bans to eventually justify a perma ban because some of them dont like me. Seen this shit in other servers and unless you fight over every single ban and note it pretty much always eventually ends up a perma
Nobody is out to get you. There is no conspiracy to get you permabanned. Stop being a shitter and you'll stop accumulating bans for being a shitter. The only person in control of your behaviour is you.

In conclusion, the ban reason will be edited to reflect how you actually killed the officer after instigating a second fight with him after the first ended with your staff being confiscated, and I'll be denying this appeal unless you have any other points you'd like to bring up in your defence.
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Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!
That's thinking on your feet, soldier!
Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all
oranges wrote:
Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.
Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578
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Oliva
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:59 pm
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Re: [Thunder12345] Oliva - Fight the power

Post by Oliva » #616439

"Nowell goes after you because you're pissing off him and everyone else, when he starts shooting at you for being an absolute bellend you steal his gun and start lasering him.
Oliva wrote:"

you keep underplaying this when this is the most important part of the situation. he tried to lethal me over slipping him. Its the equivalent of someone droping a soap infron of sec and the warden leaving sec to shotgun them.

"when he starts shooting at you for being an absolute bellend you steal his gun and start lasering him."

"absolute bellend" im literally just slipping someone for 5 seconds and then they stand back up. im not next to them so i cant even fuck with them in any other way. to say that this not only makes me valid but is also kill baiting is ridiculous.

also you didnt mention how he made no attempt to arrest and just left my critted body in hallway to get looted

"You go back to instigate another fight"

shoving someone to get an item that they critted me for isnt instigating a fight. its just me looking to get the staff back, me not outright attacking him when i was healed and had the holopara at this point shows that i just wanted the staff and didnt want to remove him from the round at this point

"clarify that the fight was actually over when you decided to go back for revenge."

i just wanted to get my staff back for 80% of the whole situation until he would just keep lasering me towards the end. Stop trying to frame this as me just wanting to kill him over critting me once.

"and given by the time you were critted you had already tried to kill him with his own gun"

i dont get why you're so favored to his side like this. He shot me with a laser first and i took his own laser and shot back at him. This is literally just self defence.

"This has been a longstanding policy that you can't kill seccies for doing their job"

last i remembered lethaling people over slips isnt their job. You're reason works if he went non lethal but he went out of his way to overescelate to lethals in the first place. And unless you're saying "if you thought he wasnt sec it would have been ok" my point of your "seccers can kill who they want just ahelp" advice is still retarded.

"That stops being a joke and starts being annoying as fuck."

okay so if someone is annoyed by it they can valid me despite having several stun items in their disposal got it

"Not relevant, not killing people is not an excuse for later killing someone."

never said it was read the original category that comment was in

"Nobody is out to get you. There is no conspiracy to get you permabanned."

never said there was about me specifically. im just pointing out that this is a pretty common thing that happens to people who dont outright break the rules but are disliked.

"Stop being a shitter"

being a annoying isnt against the rules and it doesnt make you valid otherwise honda mothra would have been perma'd long ago. Once again you disliking me doesnt make me valid or my ban valid.

"In conclusion, the ban reason will be edited to reflect how you actually killed the officer after instigating a second fight with him after the first ended with your staff being confiscated, and I'll be denying this appeal unless you have any other points you'd like to bring up in your defence."

Im not expecting you to lift the ban that you yourself made less than a day ago obviously even if your wrong you wont. Im more asking other admins for their input on what happened here
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Cobby
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Re: [Thunder12345] Oliva - Fight the power

Post by Cobby » #616457

We actually explicitly have a policy about being annoying for no other reason but to be a nuisance then ahelping when you get trashed for it but I’m on mobile so I can’t link it.

The specific thread was pet killing which is equally minuscule but the ruling was purposely vague to cover scenarios outside of it
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=14718#p369897 wrote:If you perform an action which has zero benefit to you other than making others upset (like killing Ian) I will ban you if you adminhelp when someone kills you.
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Oliva
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:59 pm
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Re: [Thunder12345] Oliva - Fight the power

Post by Oliva » #616464

i wasnt even the one who ahelped. after he died for validing me im pretty sure he ahelped or thunder just saw this and bwoinked
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Thunder11
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Re: [Thunder12345] Oliva - Fight the power

Post by Thunder11 » #616465

Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "Nowell goes after you because you're pissing off him and everyone else, when he starts shooting at you for being an absolute bellend you steal his gun and start lasering him.
Oliva wrote:"

you keep underplaying this when this is the most important part of the situation. he tried to lethal me over slipping him. Its the equivalent of someone droping a soap infron of sec and the warden leaving sec to shotgun them.
Except in this instance it's more like they have a gun that shoots soap through walls and have been using it to be a dickhead to everyone they came across.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "when he starts shooting at you for being an absolute bellend you steal his gun and start lasering him."

"absolute bellend" im literally just slipping someone for 5 seconds and then they stand back up. im not next to them so i cant even fuck with them in any other way. to say that this not only makes me valid but is also kill baiting is ridiculous.

also you didnt mention how he made no attempt to arrest and just left my critted body in hallway to get looted
You were the person being a shitheel, I don't see any reason for him to be obligated to revive someone who was going around intentionally disrupting everyone for their own entertainment.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "You go back to instigate another fight"

shoving someone to get an item that they critted me for isnt instigating a fight. its just me looking to get the staff back, me not outright attacking him when i was healed and had the holopara at this point shows that i just wanted the staff and didnt want to remove him from the round at this point
You went back after Nowell having explicitly obtained a lethal weapon (your holopara) first. If you were only looking to take the staff back why did you need a holopara to accomplish that?
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "clarify that the fight was actually over when you decided to go back for revenge."

i just wanted to get my staff back for 80% of the whole situation until he would just keep lasering me towards the end. Stop trying to frame this as me just wanting to kill him over critting me once.
Given you'd already taken his gun and tried to kill him with it once I see no reason why he shouldn't respond with lethals when you come back for second helpings.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "and given by the time you were critted you had already tried to kill him with his own gun"

i dont get why you're so favored to his side like this. He shot me with a laser first and i took his own laser and shot back at him. This is literally just self defence.
And it has been previously held that trying to kill security because you're claiming self defence isn't a valid excuse if they have a reason to be after you, which they did.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "This has been a longstanding policy that you can't kill seccies for doing their job"

last i remembered lethaling people over slips isnt their job. You're reason works if he went non lethal but he went out of his way to overescelate to lethals in the first place. And unless you're saying "if you thought he wasnt sec it would have been ok" my point of your "seccers can kill who they want just ahelp" advice is still retarded.
Stopping people who are being shitheels is their job. You are still supposed to ahelp if you think security is being out of line.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "That stops being a joke and starts being annoying as fuck."

okay so if someone is annoyed by it they can valid me despite having several stun items in their disposal got it
You were going out of your way to fuck with everyone because you found it entertaining, that is not the kind of person who is deserving of the kid gloves.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "Not relevant, not killing people is not an excuse for later killing someone."

never said it was read the original category that comment was in
It's called references of good conduct. The fact you did not kill a few other people is not a reference of good conduct it is merely you not killing additional people.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "Nobody is out to get you. There is no conspiracy to get you permabanned."

never said there was about me specifically. im just pointing out that this is a pretty common thing that happens to people who dont outright break the rules but are disliked.
The first half of your anything else we should know section directly refers to your own past note history, that is not a general observation, it is specifically about you.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "Stop being a shitter"

being a annoying isnt against the rules and it doesnt make you valid otherwise honda mothra would have been perma'd long ago. Once again you disliking me doesnt make me valid or my ban valid.
Negatively impacting the gameplay experience of everyone you come across by blasting them with a honk staff is most certainly being a massive annoyance. This ban is not about you being a massive annoyance, and you being a shitter is a pattern of behaviour demonstrated by your conduct during this entire incident as well as your past history.
Oliva wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:25 pm "In conclusion, the ban reason will be edited to reflect how you actually killed the officer after instigating a second fight with him after the first ended with your staff being confiscated, and I'll be denying this appeal unless you have any other points you'd like to bring up in your defence."

Im not expecting you to lift the ban that you yourself made less than a day ago obviously even if your wrong you wont. Im more asking other admins for their input on what happened here
And you can get that input from the headmins if they wish to weigh in on this. Denied.
ImageImage
Spoiler:
IcePacks wrote:
MrFoster wrote:Back in my day, we didn't complain about lag! We used it to queue attacks!
That's thinking on your feet, soldier!
Quality Paprika from #coderbus wrote:[11:35.52] <paprika> holy crap so yeah i don't care about your opinion at all
oranges wrote:
Excuse me? Thats for sensible and calm rational debate, not for senseless whining.
Resident Catmin, please direct catposting to: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5578
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