[Harricross] Cooldude22333 - Security and Cap ban.

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CoolDude223334
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:03 pm

[Harricross] Cooldude22333 - Security and Cap ban.

Post by CoolDude223334 » #618312

BYOND account: Cooldude22333
Character name: Jack Anton
Ban type: Security ban. Captain ban.
Ban length: 7 days.
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Captain, Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer for 1 week - (MRP) As a detective, used lethals against a shaft miner who was known to have a power miner. The shaft miner in question was attempting to break into the bridge in order to attack an abductor who had already kidnapped and experimented on roughly four people. As per roleplay rule six, killing the shaft miner while there was little to no escalation doesn't fit the punishment for them nor does it fit the standards for security on Manuel. You already have a history of poor plays as security and your tendency to use lethals when it isn't warranted is starting to be a common occurrence. Please be more careful in the future, any more instances of this will be met with a harsher punishment.
Time ban was placed: 02:34:53
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 170811
Your side of the story: A miner was threatening to kill two abductors in bridge after they had contacted us and where passing notes to the captain, explaining they had completed their objectives on SSD people.
The miner had a power miner and he broke one of the doors into bridge, so the captain and I attempted to arrest or put him in crit, and because of the power miner we responded with lethal force until he ran away. After a bit of chasing I gave up because he was no longer actively threatening to do anything. I ran into him along with the captain in the hallway and we began to argue over his justification to attempt to break into a secure area until beepsky began arresting the miner. At that point I brought out my gun knowing a fight was going to happen. The power miner came to defend the miner and I began shooting him with a 38. Captain assisted in this as well. The miner was dusted, ending the encounter.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I believe the wording in this ban is leaving out the fact that the Abductors where not actively threatening anything and also speaking with the captain. They had told us they researched on SSD people, and while its not exactly great, we had no reason to believe they where lying and they had proven non-hostile. The miner had mad threats against the abductors despite the words of me and captain and broke a door into bridge and attempted to get all the way in. He had attempted to break into a secure area, directly after threatening two people within it, meaning we had no way to tell if he was going to back down. I also attempted to speak with the miner after the first encounter, trying to reason with them, yet they refused to listen to anything me or captain had to say, also claiming we may possibly be "Brainwashed" when we where not. This ban note and sec ban is worded in so it seems I actively sought to kill the miner, or that I was supporting actively hostile abductors who where kidnapping people, when in reality they where relaxing in the bridge and writing on paper to communicate with us, as well as the fact I attempted to peacefully resolve the situation after the initial fight. It also claims I have a "Shoot first, ask questions later" mindset, and while I recently had a note where I shot a clown over a altercation with a honk mech, as well as words, and it mentions history of "poor plays", and while I am willing to own up to honest mistakes and having a lapse in judgment, I do not believe this was that, nor do I believe I handled this in a way that breaks rule 6, as he was attempting to break into a secure area, and from everything prior, we had to assume he had murderous intent. During the second fight with the miner we began by speaking to him, before the beepsky came along and arrested him, by that point both parties had prepared to fight. If things had gone differently a peaceful outcome might have been possible, but the circumstances at the time made it difficult to arrest him due to his angered power miner. I would like to thank you for taking the time to read this, and while I disagree with the decision made here, I hold no Ill will toward Harricross.
User avatar
Harricross
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:33 am
Byond Username: Harricross

Re: [Harricross] Cooldude22333 - Security and Cap ban.

Post by Harricross » #618325

Hi there, thanks for making an appeal.

We'll be going through your reply in chunks, so please bear with me.
I believe the wording in this ban is leaving out the fact that the Abductors where not actively threatening anything and also speaking with the captain. They had told us they researched on SSD people, and while its not exactly great, we had no reason to believe they where lying and they had proven non-hostile.
After reviewing the logs, I can agree that the abductors did experiment on SSD people. I will change the note to reflect that.
The miner had mad threats against the abductors despite the words of me and captain and broke a door into bridge and attempted to get all the way in. He had attempted to break into a secure area, directly after threatening two people within it, meaning we had no way to tell if he was going to back down. I also attempted to speak with the miner after the first encounter, trying to reason with them, yet they refused to listen to anything me or captain had to say, also claiming we may possibly be "Brainwashed" when we where not.
First of all, there was no indication via logs that you ever attempted or had the intention to de-escalate the situation by responding with, "I'll fucking kill you bitch." At this point, it's clear to me you were looking for an excuse to shoot your revolver at the miner.
Spoiler:

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[2021-11-02 03:25:01.931] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "YOU" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:25:20.546] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "WE WILL KILL THAT ALIEN" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:25:30.911] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "HOW MANY MEMBERS OF THE CREW" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:25:32.554] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "HAS IT KILLED" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:25:33.753] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "HUH?" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:25:54.414] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "I'll fucking kill you bitch" (Bridge (161,140,2))
[2021-11-02 03:26:01.975] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "calm the fuck down" (Bridge (163,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:26:07.869] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "and leave this alone" (Bridge (163,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:26:17.760] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "your attemping to kill the fucking aliens dude" (Bridge (163,139,2))
Roughly a minute later, you actually did shoot at the miner with your revolver after threatening them with death. Keep in mind, this was also after you had pursued them back to cargo.
The miner's holoparasite retaliated once you shot them.
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[2021-11-02 03:26:30.793] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "don't make me fucking kill you" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:26:35.370] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "I've killed people" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
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[2021-11-02 03:26:41.484] ATTACK: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) has fired at [floor] with .38 bullet from Mining Office (Mining Office (167,153,2))
[2021-11-02 03:26:41.644] ATTACK: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) has shot RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) with .38 bullet (NEWHP: 80)  (Mining Office (168,153,2))
[2021-11-02 03:26:44.756] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) (NEWHP: 72.7)  (Mining Office (174,153,2))
The captain did make vague indications that the abductors were friendly with the only reason, "They alreadt completed their objectives." They never explained the situation about the abductors only experimenting on SSD people. You, however did not at any point try to elaborate the situation to the miner or talk to them over comms first.
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[2021-11-02 03:21:43.618] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "Okay" (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (157,140,2))
[2021-11-02 03:22:07.328] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "I have made friends with an alien" (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (163,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:22:19.815] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "I gave him a sombrero" (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (163,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:22:30.754] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "Anyways leave the AI alone." (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (163,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:22:42.867] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "So wanna leave?" (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (163,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:23:28.790] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "Okay" (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (157,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:23:30.001] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "So" (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (157,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:23:35.041] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "The aliens are friendly now" (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (157,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:23:48.748] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "They alreadt completed their objectives." (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (157,139,2))
[2021-11-02 03:24:26.582] TCOMMS: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) [Common] (spans:  command_headset ) "The Aliens want to leave." (language: Galactic Common) (Bridge (151,138,2))
Your entire comms logs below.
Spoiler:

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[2021-11-02 03:20:24.027] TCOMMS: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) [Security] (spans:  ) "Guys, CMO is dying in disposals" (language: Galactic Common) (Cargo Office (157,162,2))
[2021-11-02 03:20:27.562] TCOMMS: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) [Security] (spans:  ) "Need somebody to open cargo" (language: Galactic Common) (Cargo Office (157,162,2))
[2021-11-02 03:35:57.860] TCOMMS: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) [Common] (spans:  ) "4 TC is plenty for cool shit" (language: Galactic Common) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (167,105,2))
[2021-11-02 03:37:45.804] TCOMMS: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) [Common] (spans:  yell ) "MY FUCKING OFFICE!!!!" (language: Galactic Common) (Starboard Primary Hallway (185,131,2))
[2021-11-02 03:37:50.716] TCOMMS: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) [Common] (spans:  ) "WHO DID THIS?" (language: Galactic Common) (Starboard Primary Hallway (185,131,2))
This ban note and sec ban is worded in so it seems I actively sought to kill the miner, or that I was supporting actively hostile abductors who where kidnapping people, when in reality they where relaxing in the bridge and writing on paper to communicate with us, as well as the fact I attempted to peacefully resolve the situation after the initial fight.
The ban/note does not imply you were actively helping the abductors. If that were the case, I would have stated it in the ban/note that you were actively assisting the abductor duo rather than escalation, punishment and security standards issues. Again, from earlier loggings, you did not attempt to peacefully resolve the situation.
It also claims I have a "Shoot first, ask questions later" mindset, and while I recently had a note where I shot a clown over a altercation with a honk mech, as well as words, and it mentions history of "poor plays", and while I am willing to own up to honest mistakes and having a lapse in judgment, I do not believe this was that, nor do I believe I handled this in a way that breaks rule 6, as he was attempting to break into a secure area, and from everything prior, we had to assume he had murderous intent.
By looking at your notes and bans, you have an extensive history of being excessive with your use of force and were noted the day before for dumping your revolver into a clown for calling you a coward. There are four instances of notes related to security, over-escalation and poor behaviour which you've accumulated within a five month timespan (excluding this note/ban you are appealing).

The ban should've been harsher as it appears to me that previous issues from earlier notes are resurfacing. Seven of your notes from 2019-03-25 to 2020-12-08 are also related to security, over-escalation and poor behaviour. These seven notes exclude non-security issues.

In relation to you breaking rule six, you applied lethal force to someone that yelled at you for shooting them and then you shot them again.

To add to this, you were hunting down the miner after they backed off of the Bridge and shot them at the Mining Office where you then later get into a yelling match with the miner. You finish them off with you starting the fight with hotshot .38 bullets.
During the second fight with the miner we began by speaking to him, before the beepsky came along and arrested him, by that point both parties had prepared to fight. If things had gone differently a peaceful outcome might have been possible, but the circumstances at the time made it difficult to arrest him due to his angered power miner.
I must admit, it's impossible to tell through logs if the holoparasite manifested and attempted to charge you, the captain or rest of security, but that question would've been brought up had you not logged out mid-ticket while roundend was delayed so we'll be going based off of attack logs.

Things would've gone smoother, had you handled it in a matter that didn't involve threatening the miner and shooting them. This all stemmed from that initial incident stated above.

Relevant say logs from the miner:
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[2021-11-02 03:32:25.340] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "DECTECTIVE" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (168,147,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:32.263] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "YOU TRY AND KILL ME" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,142,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:34.521] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "FOR BREAKING A DOOR?" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,142,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:38.015] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,142,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:42.190] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "I NEVER TOUCHED THE ALIEN" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,142,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:52.402] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "YEAH YOU SHOOT ME?" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:57.150] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "THATS A MINOR CRIME JACKASS" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:06.168] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "OH?" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:18.067] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "What the fuck why are you threating me for breaking a door" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:26.983] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "You abuse your power" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:39.961] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "An alien thats fucked who knows how many of the crew." (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:50.513] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "Christ you might be brain washed." (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:59.524] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "It broke a door thats all." (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:04.455] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "I have control of it." (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,141,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:22.013] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "and put" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,131,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:24.342] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "your gun away" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,133,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:30.061] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "what the fuck" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:36.283] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "wow" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:41.333] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "im not" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:42.418] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "hostile" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:43.962] GAME: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) bumped into CynicalElephant/(Chance Clarke) and set them on fire
[2021-11-02 03:34:46.931] SAY: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "you shot me" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:49.248] WHISPER: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) "for" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (171,134,2))
 [2021-11-02 03:34:55.652] EMOTE: RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,119,2))
Relevant say logs from you about six seconds before you shot their holoparasite:
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[2021-11-02 03:32:49.195] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "you where using a fucking power miner" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:56.226] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "yes" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:32:58.525] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "yes I fucking do" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:06.773] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "you want me to finish the fucking job?" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:29.251] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "threatening a alien and breaking COMMAND DOORS" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:35.301] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "WITH A POWER MINER" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:33:51.142] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "thats proven itself not hostile" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:13.771] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "well, im not doubing your contron" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,138,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:21.401] SAY: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) "im calling you a fucking jackass" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,134,2))
Relevant attack logs from the Fore Central Primary Hallway fight:
Spoiler:

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2021-11-02 03:34:27.002] ATTACK: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) has fired at medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with .38 Hot Shot bullet from Fore Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:27.007] ATTACK: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with .38 Hot Shot bullet (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:34.464] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) (NEWHP: 76.2)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:37.031] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) (NEWHP: 68.9)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,136,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:37.239] ATTACK: CynicalElephant/(Chance Clarke) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,131,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:39.037] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) (NEWHP: 59.1)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:40.136] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) (NEWHP: 49.3)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,129,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:41.105] ATTACK: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) has attacked medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with police baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,130,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:46.701] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CynicalElephant/(Chance Clarke) (NEWHP: 100)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,129,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:49.045] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CynicalElephant/(Chance Clarke) (NEWHP: 93.3)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,130,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:50.223] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked CynicalElephant/(Chance Clarke) (NEWHP: 86.5)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,130,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:51.688] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has grabbed RebelFarming/(Cash Martins) passive grab (NEWHP: -53.6)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,134,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:54.116] ATTACK: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,128,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:54.655] ATTACK: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,126,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:55.266] ATTACK: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) has fired at medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser from Fore Central Primary Hallway (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,124,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:55.659] ATTACK: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,122,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:56.020] ATTACK: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,121,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:56.135] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) (NEWHP: 100)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,119,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:56.491] ATTACK: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,120,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:57.003] ATTACK: Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) has shot medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with the laser (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,121,2))
[2021-11-02 03:34:57.168] ATTACK: CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) has shoved medievalwizardry/(Large Man) with failing to move it (NEWHP: 1e+031)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (170,120,2))
2021-11-02 03:34:57.822] ATTACK: medievalwizardry/(Large Man) has attacked Aluminumrazer657/(Emma Lampert) (NEWHP: 88.8)  (Fore Central Primary Hallway (169,120,2))
All in all, using lethals with little to no effort to de-escalate as a detective where you know the end result is round removal for the other player and then committing to it isn't up to the standards for security on MRP servers. Additionally, hunting them after they had already backed off to cargo while threatening them even more is exceptionally iffy. I understand that it's hard to restrain someone that is using some sort of holoparasite, but it's not your duty as a detective to initiate, hunt and then execute the person involved when they had not made it clear they were some sort of antagonist.

I'll be changing the note some time today or tomorrow to better reflect the situation. However, the note itself is justified based on how you conducted yourself that shift and was escalated to a job ban in regards to your previous notes/bans.
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