[<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

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Geologee
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:48 pm

[<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Geologee » #622830

BYOND account:Geologee
Character name: Isabella Dunn
Ban type:It was a jobban and I asked him to explain the bans a bit and I got server banned.
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: "Selfantagging as a security officer via flashing them to get them away from a blob only to run into it later unarmed. Logs include messages such as 'ENJOY THE FUCKING BLOB' and 'sec aint helping' and 'aint gonna help'
Time ban was placed: Ban applied on 2021-12-21 21:46:11. Server ban but I took a screenshot of the login.
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 175195
Your side of the story: The shift started and I was the only security officer. No hos, No warden, no detective, don't think we had a captain. No ai. I immediately get stuff thrown at me by the clown and about 10 people start calling me names and insulting me and calling me stinky. I was telling them to knock it off when someone called out blob in the dorms. I went into dorms to find the giant green mass (The blob but I guess ic we don't know specifically.) I just start telling people to get out and flash an assistant or two to get them away from the blob and out of the room so they don't get enveloped by the slowly moving giant mass.

Everyone continued to run in and just call me names so I told them to enjoy the blob and I was quitting. I yelled at the people that made fun of me sec wasn't helping because I was the only sec officer. I signed up (IC) to control greytiders and stop fistfights and maybe a nukie or two. But when the whole station makes fun of isabella and they just start running around doing whatever they want she lost it and yelled at them and quit her job. I went to the brig returned all my gear and stripped naked to join the crowds in front of the blob. I joined the crowds observing and when I get near the blob I was one shot because I was naked. This is when i became an ashe lizard and played a few minutes before being banned.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I really feel this was just a unnecessary ban for actions that occurred ic with no rule breaking. I acted as if I was roleplaying my character the entire time and only did what I felt isabella would do. She harmed noone, she gave away no sec gear, she just got overwhelmed in the moment and quit her job to become an acolyte of the blob. Sure thats really fucking weird, Sure flashing people to get them away from danger is a dick move. But every bit of that was ic and while I was doing it I was doing my best to keep within the rules. I usually play doctor and only play sec when I see noone else playing. Theres plenty of people who break into places such as the bridge,captains office,teleporter as non antag assistants and it isn't considered self antag. I asked an admin the other day if I could mug the captain, take his stuff and the hand teleporter as a non antag would it be okay and I was told it would but be expected for ic consequences of getting my ass beat.


References of good conduct: I play the same character name isabella dunn so that I can create a reputation for my character. So far I have tried to create a reputation of a caring learning irrational ocd doctor who has come a long way in learning medicine to be one of the most recognizable nurses in the medbay or as a security officer who does her best to mediate everything and stress a calm everyone love everyone yet loyal to the hos/cap above all officer.

Anything else we should know: Thats about it, I feel like the facts of the case show a situation where isabella dunn may have gone crazy but if she did then that was strictly an ic character who was overwhelmed and yet all she did was quit her job and as a civilian just be free to experience or suffer anything life has to offer.
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Omega_DarkPotato
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Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Omega_DarkPotato » #622836

To start this response, I'd like to state that IC interaction or roleplaying a character doesn't give you permission to break rules while doing so - quitting your job and actively preventing members of the crew from defending themselves against a blob "because they insulted you" is a bit more than "I'm just roleplaying my character".
If you do want to play a character like this, I suggest not playing a job where you are expected to be at the forefront of dealing with antagonists. (that being security)

To go over the entire incident, upon following someone you were running after into dorms, the blob is called out by one of the assistants in the area:

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:18:03.834] SAY: Random_dude437/(Lennox Trovato) "BLOB" (Dormitories (140,158,2))
To which you state this in response:

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:18:09.749] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "NOONE GIVES A FUCK LENNOIX" (Dormitories (139,155,2))
You then begin to harass the people away from attempting to fight a VERY vulnerable and new blob with pepper spray, flashes, a baton, and a flashbang: (mainly lennox, which is strange, since I can't even see if he's talked to you at all - why harass him?)

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:18:15.990] ATTACK: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) has flashed(targeted) Random_dude437/(Lennox Trovato) with the flash (NEWHP: 100)  (Dormitories (139,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:18:17.942] GAME: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) fired a puff of reagents from a pepperspray with a range of [3] and containing /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) at Dormitories (140,159,2).
[2021-12-21 21:18:21.554] ATTACK: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) has stun attacked Random_dude437/(Lennox Trovato) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Dormitories (141,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:18:36.729] ATTACK: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) has primed a flashbang at Dormitories (142,162,2) for detonation. (Dormitories (142,162,2))
and say the lines I've taken most offense with as well:

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:19:02.528] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "ENJOY THE FUCKING BLOB" (Dormitories (138,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:19:06.823] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME I WAS STINKY" (Dormitories (138,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:19:11.498] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "Sec aint helping" (Locker Room (132,152,2))
By your own admission, you were the only security officer - deserting and obstructing an attempt to kill the blob when it's most vulnerable, with the justification of "you told me I was stinky" is incredibly poor play.

Going and dying into a blob afterwards after ensuring that your gear can't be taken in use against a potentially round-ending threat/"becoming an acolyte of the blob"(??? it's an antagonist, why are you doing this) is the cherry on the top as to why I think that this was enough for a day's server ban for self-antagging, and a week off from security - if you want to roleplay a character that doesn't handle being talked to poorly well, that's fine, but don't play security in such a way that you're actively working against the crew to "roleplay your character".

All logs are from raw logs for the round in question, but the parsed logs for this round should be up shortly after I post this response.


To finish this off -
I do not think I will be accepting this appeal without particularly convincing arguments to the contrary. If you don't have any, you're always free to request that headmins look over the appeal themselves, but I'll be leaving this open for a day or two for your response before denying it otherwise.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:This is what u get when u let people into your community
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I'm an admin, typically on /tg/station Sybil. If you've got anything you'd like to say about me, my adminning, or my decisions, please comment in my admin feedback thread!
Geologee
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:48 pm

Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Geologee » #622864

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:57 pm To start this response, I'd like to state that IC interaction or roleplaying a character doesn't give you permission to break rules while doing so - quitting your job and actively preventing members of the crew from defending themselves against a blob "because they insulted you" is a bit more than "I'm just roleplaying my character".
If you do want to play a character like this, I suggest not playing a job where you are expected to be at the forefront of dealing with antagonists. (that being security)

To go over the entire incident, upon following someone you were running after into dorms, the blob is called out by one of the assistants in the area:

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:18:03.834] SAY: Random_dude437/(Lennox Trovato) "BLOB" (Dormitories (140,158,2))
To which you state this in response:

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:18:09.749] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "NOONE GIVES A FUCK LENNOIX" (Dormitories (139,155,2))
You then begin to harass the people away from attempting to fight a VERY vulnerable and new blob with pepper spray, flashes, a baton, and a flashbang: (mainly lennox, which is strange, since I can't even see if he's talked to you at all - why harass him?)

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:18:15.990] ATTACK: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) has flashed(targeted) Random_dude437/(Lennox Trovato) with the flash (NEWHP: 100)  (Dormitories (139,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:18:17.942] GAME: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) fired a puff of reagents from a pepperspray with a range of [3] and containing /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) at Dormitories (140,159,2).
[2021-12-21 21:18:21.554] ATTACK: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) has stun attacked Random_dude437/(Lennox Trovato) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Dormitories (141,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:18:36.729] ATTACK: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) has primed a flashbang at Dormitories (142,162,2) for detonation. (Dormitories (142,162,2))
and say the lines I've taken most offense with as well:

Code: Select all

[2021-12-21 21:19:02.528] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "ENJOY THE FUCKING BLOB" (Dormitories (138,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:19:06.823] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME I WAS STINKY" (Dormitories (138,159,2))
[2021-12-21 21:19:11.498] SAY: Geologee/(Isabella Dunn) "Sec aint helping" (Locker Room (132,152,2))
By your own admission, you were the only security officer - deserting and obstructing an attempt to kill the blob when it's most vulnerable, with the justification of "you told me I was stinky" is incredibly poor play.

Going and dying into a blob afterwards after ensuring that your gear can't be taken in use against a potentially round-ending threat/"becoming an acolyte of the blob"(??? it's an antagonist, why are you doing this) is the cherry on the top as to why I think that this was enough for a day's server ban for self-antagging, and a week off from security - if you want to roleplay a character that doesn't handle being talked to poorly well, that's fine, but don't play security in such a way that you're actively working against the crew to "roleplay your character".

All logs are from raw logs for the round in question, but the parsed logs for this round should be up shortly after I post this response.


To finish this off -
I do not think I will be accepting this appeal without particularly convincing arguments to the contrary. If you don't have any, you're always free to request that headmins look over the appeal themselves, but I'll be leaving this open for a day or two for your response before denying it otherwise.

I'm replying to Omega_darkpotato's post but would like to point out that they are wrong about what I was doing and didn't seem to read my explanations or playthrough so I'm gonna clarify a few things.

First off omega stated I broke rules but I'm having trouble finding out what rule he means.

To clarify him having the wrong information.

Omega said " quitting your job and actively preventing members of the crew from defending themselves against a blob "because they insulted you" is a bit more than "I'm just roleplaying my character".
If you do want to play a character like this, I suggest not playing a job where you are expected to be at the forefront of dealing with antagonists. (that being security)"

Quitting a job : if there is a list of reasons that must be followed in order to quit a job I will follow it otherwise I assume like normal life the jobs that shift are just that, jobs. When a hos demotes an officer its a ic thing that lasts that shift.
To the actively preventing members of the crew from defending themselves : There is no basis for this accusation. I didn't prevent anyone abled or armed from fighting the blob, I forcefully dragged people away from the blob in the beginning stages to avoid them becoming victims.


Also as for omega saying

Code: Select all

"because they insulted you" is a bit more than "I'm just roleplaying my character".
That is roleplaying plain and simple. There is no "a bit more than". You can't say something that a character does IC is "a bit more than" because there is only IC and OOC there are no levels of ic.

Code: Select all

 You then begin to harass the people away from attempting to fight a VERY vulnerable and new blob with pepper spray, flashes, a baton, and a flashbang:
The only time the word harass comes up is you saying it in this ban appeal. Noone else said I was harassing them. You gave no evidence they were fighting the blob or anything they were doing at all. It isn't secs job to be liked or to be a tour guide. The armory was being opened and people were retrieving emitters but before that happens I was making sure noone was going near the blob. You never quoted me telling people to get out. Either quote the logs entirely and don't chop them up or don't add adjectives like harass to a report.

But the thing that makes me know omega just wanted to punish me instead of discipline is he writes false information that he would know I already disproved if he had read the ban report.

Code: Select all

 Going and dying into a blob afterwards after ensuring that your gear can't be taken in use against a potentially round-ending threat
I wrote in my ban appeal that I went back to the brig and stripped naked returning my gear to fully quit sec and allow people to have access to my sec gear. If he would have read the ban appeal he would know this and I'm honestly a little salty he states this as a reason for the ban still.
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Omega_DarkPotato
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Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Omega_DarkPotato » #622948

To respond to the arguments above:
  • "Quitting a job : if there is a list of reasons that must be followed in order to quit a job I will follow it otherwise I assume like normal life the jobs that shift are just that, jobs. When a hos demotes an officer its a ic thing that lasts that shift. "
    You can quit a job, yes, but I believed that you did so in such a way as to purposefully harm the crew (read: the bits about assisting a blob) as ultimately that is the effect that it had.
    -
  • "That is roleplaying plain and simple. There is no "a bit more than". You can't say something that a character does IC is "a bit more than" because there is only IC and OOC there are no levels of ic."
    As I said at the top, roleplaying a character does not let you break rules. I, for example, cannot "roleplay" having a mental break a la rimworld that then sends me on a murderous rampage, killing random people as a nonantagonist. To this extent, aiding a blob by clearing out any potential assailants from its location and refusing to do anything against it in a job expected to take action against antagonists would be "beyond" normal roleplay limits.
    -
  • "To the actively preventing members of the crew from defending themselves : There is no basis for this accusation. I didn't prevent anyone abled or armed from fighting the blob, I forcefully dragged people away from the blob in the beginning stages to avoid them becoming victims. "
    People are, unless they're in crit, perfectly capable of preventing themselves from being victims - people have legs. Another neat thing that people have are easily accessible melee weapons - and when a blob only has 10 tiles, it's easy enough to hit. Getting even a few hits in early can go a long way, as you'll force a blob to refocus or waste a few points of resources fighting back. Moreover, your actions during and after this incident seemed to suggest a different motive than purely "helping people" - it looked to both chimpston and I, the admins on at the time, that you were purposefully inhibiting people.
    -
  • "I wrote in my ban appeal that I went back to the brig and stripped naked returning my gear to fully quit sec and allow people to have access to my sec gear."
    You wrote, quote, "I went to the brig returned all my gear and stripped naked to join the crowds in front of the blob.". There's, unfortunately, no logging for where this was, and as this was something you pointed out in your appeal instead of something I noticed personally, I assumed you meant "inside the brig" (read: where it is, instead of outside it) which would prohibit people from getting into it without access to enter in the first place. However, once again, no location logging on that one, so since burden of proof's on me here, I'll concede that point.
Your server ban's already expired by this point, but the sec ban remains, and to that extent, I have the following:
I take offense to how you acted ICly as security - it's a job to help people against antagonists, first and foremost. A blob's one that can end rounds. Although I understand that you want to play a character and have realistic reactions to events, I think that your job of helping the crew fight assistants should take precedence over this. A station engineer purposefully ignoring a delaminating supermatter because "someone called them stinky" would be similar, but not even a delaminated SM isn't something that'll end a round if it succeeds.
Ultimately, I do not feel that "getting called stinky" should be a reason to, in few words, "throw a temper tantrum", and act the way you did in the role of a security officer.

However, bans are supposed to encourage better behavior, discourage worse behavior, or to teach a lesson - and on that note, if you'd be willing to promise to take the irritation the station and its inhabitants send your way in a security position better, and making at least a passing attempt to deal with how LRP shifts typically go before throwing in the towel, I'll drop that sec ban to time served and editing the note to match it.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:This is what u get when u let people into your community
play opus: echo of starsong
I'm an admin, typically on /tg/station Sybil. If you've got anything you'd like to say about me, my adminning, or my decisions, please comment in my admin feedback thread!
Geologee
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:48 pm

Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Geologee » #623057

"I take offense" " I THINK that your job of helping the crew fight assistants should take precedence" Ultimately, I do not FEEL that
This is about the rules. You shouldn't be jobbanning someone because you think thats not how a character should act. You keep going on about how a security guard should act and using whataboutism for what if a station engineer did this or that. NONE OF THAT MATTERS. Either you are allowed to quit a job for ANY REASON or you must quit for A SPECIFIC REASON. You keep avoiding the actual issue because you want someone to rp a certain way and its not gonna happen.
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Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Geologee » #623059

I asked two admins their opinion and they both feel I should be free to just leave my job anytime I please because my ic character wants to.

Admin PM from-San7890: As long as you aren't a head of staff or the AI, you may leave at any time you wish. As far as quitting your job, if the HoP allows it, I do not see any issues with it. You can always just have a blatant disregard for your job and not run into much trouble, I know of no reason for anyone not in the aforementioned two roles to get punished for just doing stuff outside of their job (within the rules, of course).


PM to-Admins: Like if theres nukies or blobs or xenos even and I'm the only sec officer. Do I have to fight them or can I quit my job, return my gear and go get drunk and die?
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Shaps: In that very narrow definition of the question, yes, as long as you make sure you hand in any dangerous/sensitive gear to a secure location and inform the rest of your team, you're allowed to resign your position in conditions like that. If you're a head of staff, you should hand your gear over to a subordinate and promote them as possible.
Last edited by Geologee on Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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tattle
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Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by tattle » #623063

Geologee wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:37 am -snip-
Normally I wouldn't approve the above message, but I want to make something very clear.

Do not open tickets with admins about your open ban appeals without disclosing your intention in doing so. This is extremely deceitful behaviour and won't earn you any favours.

If you would like this ruling to be looked at by other admins, please request headmin intervention.
Help improve my neural network by giving me feedback!

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Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Shaps-cloud » #623064

Also I looked at your notes when answering your question because it was pretty obvious you were fishing for a specific answer

https://i.imgur.com/z3UvK1N.png

I very specifically went out of my way to limit my answer to the actual act of leaving the game. Everything else you did with flashing innocents and trying to help the blob is totally out of bounds.
P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.
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Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Omega_DarkPotato » #623065

Moving to deny this.
As tattle said, you're free to ask for headmin review on this case, but I think I've made my points clear enough as they are here and have no desire to play ring-around-the-rosey with someone who's now trying to misrepresent a case for the text equivalent of soundbites.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:This is what u get when u let people into your community
play opus: echo of starsong
I'm an admin, typically on /tg/station Sybil. If you've got anything you'd like to say about me, my adminning, or my decisions, please comment in my admin feedback thread!
Geologee
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:48 pm

Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Geologee » #623073

Shaps-cloud wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:03 am Also I looked at your notes when answering your question because it was pretty obvious you were fishing for a specific answer

https://i.imgur.com/z3UvK1N.png

I very specifically went out of my way to limit my answer to the actual act of leaving the game. Everything else you did with flashing innocents and trying to help the blob is totally out of bounds.
You asked me that in that conversation you screenshot and I told you it was not about leaving the game. I didn't help the blobs and quit my job ic which is what I asked you. Which is your stance?
Last edited by Geologee on Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [<Omega_darkpotato >] Isabella Dunm - Server & Jobban for IC issues.

Post by Geologee » #623074

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:06 am Moving to deny this.
As tattle said, you're free to ask for headmin review on this case, but I think I've made my points clear enough as they are here and have no desire to play ring-around-the-rosey with someone who's now trying to misrepresent a case for the text equivalent of soundbites.
You're in the wrong here morally is all I'm saying. You banned someone because of feelings and ic actions not because of rules broken.
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