[AdipemDragon] NecromancerAnne - Note Appeal

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NecromancerAnne
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[AdipemDragon] NecromancerAnne - Note Appeal

Post by NecromancerAnne » #624582

BYOND account: NecromancerAnne
Character name: Sheness Hollow
Ban type: Note
Ban length: Note
Ban reason: In Round #176473 (MRP), as a nonantagonistic paramedic, got in a fight with the virologist over a virus having a trait they didn't agree on (Metabolic Boost), which devolved into a full on fight which resulted with the Virologist dead, decapitated and basically silently put into the morgue, effectively round removing them for at least a half hour, until they were put back in the shift by unrelated medical staff. If you aren't security, don't try to take matters into your own hands, this is why we have the whole "let's put people in prison" thing.
Time ban was placed: 2022-01-12
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 176473
Your side of the story: I'm going to break this one down into chunks for the exact sequence of events.

First, I noticed after I took the healing virus the viro made, I was suddenly unable to gain any nutrition. I realized this was probably an unneutered symptom. I had a mediborg verify this for me, Copurrulu, and he acknowledged that this was true while we were in virology. Hates, the virologist, seemed to be busy with making viruses and the like. I told him sternly that this virus was causing problems and that he should neuter his symptoms. He told me pretty flatly this isn't his problem and to effectively go fuck myself. I turn to the borg, ask if he cared about the lizard, and when he said no, I walked up to him and told him to neuter the symptom. I think this made it pretty clear that it was an open threat, but I hadn't done anything at this point. I was waiting on a response. I will say right now. At this point, I intend to take this into my own hands and escalate into a fistfight. I only intended for it to be a fistfight. I prefer to beat people up this way, it's more fair.

He then splashes me with a beaker of blood and sprints out of viro. I give chase, pretty certain he just tried to poison me with a virus of some kind. We basically start having a fistfight in the viro cycling airlocks as he desperately attempts to get out. He turns to using a crowbar, but it doesn't stop me simply using fists. I'm at this point not looking to kill him, I'm just going to beat him up for being such a prick and I'm willing to get knocked flat to prove a point if need be..

He gets out of the viro staircase (this is Ice Box, so this is from the second level and up onto the first) and runs out of view of me once I get up the stairs. Copurrulu comes up at this point to see him come back towards me with a circular saw and starting to attack me multiple times and bring me close to critcal.

Now, earlier in the shift, the bartender had died and was soulless. I figured that, since his gear wasn't going to much use and I already had the syringe gun on me, that a double-barrelled shotgun filled with beanbags wasn't much different to a morphine shot, and I so I loot it since he wasn't using it. I also took his armor vest. It looks nice and helps fit the gun.

I was slashed multiple times and was on the verge of crit before I pulled out the shotgun and double tapped him. I then sliced him up and inadvertently beheaded him. I think I probably caused an injury to his head with the beanbags and so the slash wound likely severed it.

Once I get healed by Copurrulu, I resolve to stick him into the morgue. But when I do so, I message in ahelp to explain what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, since I know that will be an issue and I'm just making sure if this is okay.

AdipemDragon doesn't seem to like it, asking mostly as to why I had the shotgun, and I explain further the situation. It's only until much later in the round do they come back and explain that they do agree with it and that they will be noting me for it. Literally the length of time that they put into the note roughly. I'm at this point annoyed because of how long it took for this to come to light and I approached first. I was confident that the way the viro had escalated, they were valid for escalation on the blood splashing (I think the virus was blocked by my bio protected gear if there was any virus at all), but when they turned a fistfight into a lethal assault, they were the one to step out of line. I don't need to be security in order to deal with people within the round that escalate inappropriately, and if there was anyone at the time who was in the wrong for all of this escalation, it would be Hates. I couldn't understand how this wasn't immediately obvious given the actions. Maybe I should have revived and contacted security. But the only security around was apparently the warden (I arrived late I had no idea he existed) and a mime made into the HoS (it hadn't grokked in my mind that the mime could have helped but a mime HoS isn't someone I'd honestly trust), so I think for the most part we were on our own. It was lowpop at the time and gained pop over time.

But then the end screen comes up and lo and behold they're a fucking antagonist. They escalated so confidently because they were acting as an antagonist. They were behaving like this because they were an antagonist. I feel like I've been had this whole exchange, and I realize now why Adipem was so ready to disregard the viro's escalation.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I'll do it quick and sharp for you:
A) I approached first. When I got radio silence for a large period of time, I took it for agreement or at least letting it settle given the circumstances. If you took issue, you should have said something more immediately after the morguing so I could fix the problem before it became one.
B) The note is leaving out the important details of both this being an act of self defense in the end, and proper conflict that wouldn't have resulted in much more than a thrashing given I was punching the fucker with my bare hands. The gun and several bladed weapons were one my person. But I was clearly keeping it to less lethal options because I was only teaching him a lesson up until he turned it into an attempt on my life, even though he started the whole thing with at least a pretty severe assault.
C) I was being murdered at the fights conclusion. The matter is in my hands to not be murdered. The morguing may have been the issue, but that is why I ahelped you in the first place, because I had no idea if we had a security presence worth a damn to solve anything and I didn't want this to be handled badly. Don't hold me accountable for wasting such a huge period of time before a decision was made. That's on you, not on me.

References of good conduct: I guess I was an admin once?

Anything else we should know: I think the note is both deceptive of events, ignores the antagonist status of the victim while focusing on my status instead, entirely ignores that this person escalated poorly throughout (because they were an antagonist and acting like one), and if they would otherwise note someone for situations similar to this, I don't know what to tell you Adipem but you need to seriously reconsider your stance on that. The victim was not the viro. I was the victim of an disproportionate assault. The person was acting extremely poorly in this entire exchange and I think the only reason you took their side was because of their actual status which was hidden to me. They're free to escalate as they like as an antagonist but they should be prepared to be treated as one when they do. It's not my fault I took their queue for what it was and met violence with violence.

The only way I'd see this appropriately handled is a removal of the note. Part of it is literally just blaming me for not having a prompt answer to the situation, and overall the note ignores that this was largely antagonistic behaviour on the part of the virologist that I feel like I responded appropriately until I needed clarification on something, to which I guess I got punished for? Jesus fucking christ.

Edit: I'm a bit sleep deprived and I couldn't find any ahelp logs because I'm a dumb cat that got lost. If someone could point those too me again that'd be fucking swell.
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Riggle
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Re: [AdipemDragon] NecromancerAnne - Note Appeal

Post by Riggle » #624584

Here's the ticket I found on Statbus. If you would like to see the tickets you created first authenticate (at this time an error will show up, just click on the Statbus url again), then go to banbus and on the top right corner click my tickets.
► Show Spoiler
Very cool link
Look at my cool text
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [AdipemDragon] NecromancerAnne - Note Appeal

Post by NecromancerAnne » #624587

Thanks, that helps a bunch. Really appreciate it.

It also helps show I think Adipem massively misinterpreted the intent of me ahelping. No, I wasn't confident at all about the situation, and no I hadn't thought I dealt with it. If that was true I wouldn't have ahelped for clarification. Honest to god don't know why this had become a note when I took the time to ask the actual authority in the game about this and get treated like I'm selfantagging after they disappear for half an hour. I didn't know what was the best course of action, why else would I ahelp?
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AdipemDragon
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Re: [AdipemDragon] NecromancerAnne - Note Appeal

Post by AdipemDragon » #624600

I am going to keep it as short as I can.

I am sorry. The whole situation could've been handled more cleanly and more timely on my end, and that is on me dropping the ball. I am one person, I mess up when trying to balance figuring out what was happening with the one-two of incoming tickets about the situation. Nevertheless, I could've been quicker on the draw to give you advice, and That's on me. I've since looked more into the situation, with some more admin oversight this time, and this is what I have to say:

The situation was kind of sticky, and a bunch was lost in the whirlwind of actions that happened, but through it all, the core of the reason I wanted a note put on is in there: the fact that you took it on your own accord to do what you saw fit with (what eventually turned out to be) an antagonist without a single atempt at checking in with any of the higher ups currently on station. The only mention was to your coworkers, and it was in passing, at best. I fully understand assuming that there is no active security force at that station pop., but you should have at least atempted a call to any potential higher up help with handling the self-defence's aftermath. See point 3 in "Security Policy & Precedents" in the Roleplay Rules, which can also be applied to players who act in place of security.

That said. You did aHelp the situation as soon as possible to ask for an opinion and to show that you're not doing what you're doing to be sneaky and koi about the whole thing. And a note for asking for help just ain't good for anyone involved, that's on me. I'll just remove the note, but as Timberpoes put it, "next time, involve the chain of command when making those kinds of decisions".
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: [AdipemDragon] NecromancerAnne - Note Appeal

Post by NecromancerAnne » #624629

Noted. I'll try to at least get someone to weigh in who has even a smidge of authority. Like that mime.
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