[Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

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[Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Annihilite111 » #636142

BYOND account: Annihilite
Character name:Hans Heisenberg
Ban type: Note
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: "Attacked an assistant who entered engineering with access from the HoP. Please follow proper escalation in the future when handling people entering your department without you wanting them there. Contact security, shove them, tell them to leave."
Time ban was placed: 2022-04-03 17:41:02 |
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 181019
Your side of the story: I was in the middle of improving the engine cooling system when i first noticed this shitter assistant trying to sneak in through the plastic flaps. Another engie (Logan Cox i believe) tells him that if he enters engineering again he's going to taste his crowbar. Logan then leaves, and our resident tider tries to sneak in beneath the flaps multiple times, retreating once he sees that i'm still there and advancing towards him. When i see him enter again i thus bring out the ole welder and give him a few whacks. Of course, being the unrobust slowpoke that i am, i instead get near instantly skewered by his stolen Captains' saber instead, and bleed out as a fellow engie finds me and takes me to medical. I ahelp the guy for self antagging (breaking in to start a fight and then killing me), and then wait to get revived. Later in the round i am bwoinked, argue with Cheshify for around 20 minutes about my "inappropriate use of force", and log off after he confirms that we are done. I then check my notes today, and find that yes, he DID note me without giving me a heads up.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I do not believe that wordlessly attacking someone who wordlessly attempted to break into my department several times and was already warned that another break in would be answered with lethal force is against escalation policy. Especially since i was not informed that he had gotten access legitimately. I am not obliged to call on security to defend my own department from intruders (but i did in fact do this before i got critted).
References of good conduct: I only play TG :)
Anything else we should know: I stand for the joke that used to be here being funny but recognise that it was a bit demeaning. It has thus been removed.
Last edited by Annihilite111 on Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Curse of Greater Trialmin Attraction

Post by iamgoofball » #636148

Sources:
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/181 ... e=game.txt
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/181 ... attack.txt
The fight, including Heisenberg's death in medbay.
04:06:45 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 46.5) (160, 158, 2) Engineering
04:06:47 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 31.5) (159, 153, 2) Engineering
04:06:48 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the space beer (NEWHP: 86.5) (160, 151, 2) Engineering <- Hard stun + covering in flammable liquid.
04:06:48 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has shaken Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) (NEWHP: 31.5) (159, 151, 2) Engineering
04:06:51 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 73) (160, 151, 2) Engineering <- Lights the engineer on fire.
04:06:51 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has shaken Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) (NEWHP: 31.5) (159, 152, 2) Engineering
04:06:52 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 59.5) (160, 152, 2) Engineering
04:06:53 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 46) (160, 151, 2) Engineering
04:06:54 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has shaken Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) (NEWHP: 31.5) (159, 149, 2) Engineering <- Engineer tries to shove him away, moving away from the fight as he does this, see the coordinates on the attack.
04:06:55 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 35.9) (160, 150, 2) Engineering
04:06:56 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has shoved Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) (NEWHP: 31.5) (159, 151, 2) Engineering
04:06:58 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has shoved Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) (NEWHP: 31.5) (159, 153, 2) Engineering
04:06:58 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 22.4) (161, 154, 2) Engineering
04:06:59 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has shoved Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) (NEWHP: 31.5) (160, 154, 2) Engineering
04:07:00 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 8.9) (159, 156, 2) Engineering
04:07:00 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has shoved Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) (NEWHP: 31.5) (160, 156, 2) Engineering
04:07:05 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -4.6) (160, 152, 2) Engineering
04:07:06 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -18.1) (160, 151, 2) Engineering
04:07:07 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -31.6) (159, 150, 2) Engineering
04:07:09 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -41.7) (159, 150, 2) Engineering
04:07:10 ATTACK Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: -55.2) (159, 150, 2) Engineering
04:07:46 ATTACK IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) has grabbed Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) passive grab (NEWHP: -69.8) (159, 148, 2) Engineering <- Other engineer intervenes to rescue his coworker.
04:07:52 ATTACK IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) has grabbed Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -71.4) (160, 144, 2) Engineering
04:07:59 ATTACK IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) started fireman carrying Hans Heisenberg (160, 144, 2) Engineering
04:07:59 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) was fireman carried by Logan Cox (160, 145, 2) Engineering
04:08:48 ATTACK IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) is no longer being ridden by Hans Heisenberg (83, 104, 2) Medbay Treatment Center
04:08:48 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is no longer riding Logan Cox (83, 104, 2) Medbay Treatment Center
04:08:56 ATTACK IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is being stripped of the engineering MOD control unit by IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) (82, 104, 2) Medbay Treatment Center
04:08:56 ATTACK Oether/(Hadrian Wall) Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) is being stripped of the toolbelt by Oether/(Hadrian Wall) (83, 103, 2) Medbay Treatment Center
04:08:57 ATTACK Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has died (BRUTE: 13.5, BURN: 171, TOX: 0, OXY: 24, CLONE: 0) (83, 104, 2) Medbay Treatment Center
Heisenberg hits the greytider, Jordan Hutton/JulsRuls twice with a welder.
The greytider then smashes a beer bottle over Heisenberg's head for a hard stun, picks up his welder, lights him on fire with it, and continues hitting him while Heisenberg tries to put the fire out. This results in Heisenberg's death in medbay due to his wounds while he's recieving treatment.

Please note that there was no use of the captain's sabre in this fight, the firestacks was what killed them so fast.

The greytider then proceeded to lie to security that he was the one hit with a bottle and that the engineer should be arrested instead.
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Regarding the ID access the greytider was given by the HoP, I checked the logs on that.
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Not only did the greytider not verbally request engineering access, they were also given the access by the HoP with the explicit request to greytide, aka commit crime. At no point in the HoP's chatlogs do they at all inform anyone or tell engineering that the assistant was given engineering access, except for the assistant themselves.

I'd also like to note the assistant said absolutely nothing about having access to engineering during the entire fight, including afterwards when he apparently followed them to medbay.
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Last edited by iamgoofball on Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Curse of Greater Trialmin Attraction

Post by Cobby » #636166

Please knock it off with the trialmin jabs If you are going to come into the thread bad faith it’s not going to help your case even if it’s determined that you are in the right.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Curse of Greater Trialmin Attraction

Post by Cheshify » #636175

My reasoning for this note is because of poor escalation, your first interaction with the Assistant is an attack with a welder, as supported by logs. Additionally, your reasoning for attacking the Assistant was not sound, as logs show that Jordan Hutton (the assistant) was not the one breaking into the gravity generator.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 15:53:39.725] ATTACK: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) has attacked [Engineering Deliveries] with the screwdriver (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 15:53:50.050] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "I&#39;ll show you out" (Engineering (163,164,2))
[2022-04-03 15:53:56.710] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "Security to Engineering" (Engineering (163,163,2))
[2022-04-03 15:54:04.782] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "Assistant breaking into gravity control" (Engineering (162,163,2))
[2022-04-03 15:54:05.435] ATTACK: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has temp shocked for 30 seconds [Abandoned Warehouse] (Aft Port Maintenance (66,104,2))
Jordan Hutton was across the entire map, hacking into the abandoned warehouse when Logan Cox was complaining about a tider getting into grav control.
When the the time of the attack actually happened, Jordan Hutton was already in engineering for up to a minute, as he was buying things from the vendor shortly before you attacked him.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:06:04.381] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "If you come back I&#39;ll crowbar your arse!" (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:20.041] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked [omni Temperature control unit] with the wrench (Supermatter Engine Room (169,163,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:38.121] julsruls (as Jordan Hutton at 157,150,2)
 - Using: /obj/machinery/vending/wardrobe/engi_wardrobe [0x2009a17]
 - new Vending fancy 1
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.227] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.228] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:45.101] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 46.5)  (Engineering (160,158,2))
With part of your justification for attacking Jordan Hutton not being related to him (the assistant that broke into gravgen), and the fact that security was not called on Jordan Hutton until well after the fight which was started, I do not believe that immediately escalating to lethal force to be justified.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:12:28.472] SAY: 16:12:28.472] SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "jordan hutton" (Medbay Treatment Center (79,105,2))
The fight itself did not involve a stolen captains sabre, and you were instead crit from the bottle smash and welder you used against him. May I ask why you thought a sabre was involved?

Public logs:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... attack.txt
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 4/game.txt

Admin-only logs:
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/terry/ ... 4/tgui.log

Additionally, I used an edited combination of all 3 logs with your, ironteapot, and julsruls's events filtered in.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Curse of Greater Trialmin Attraction

Post by Cheshify » #636176

Correction: The note was placed regarding round 181014, and will be amended to be such on the note when this appeal is over.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Curse of Greater Trialmin Attraction

Post by Annihilite111 » #636218

Cobby wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:55 pm Please knock it off with the trialmin jabs If you are going to come into the thread bad faith it’s not going to help your case even if it’s determined that you are in the right.
I would appreciate if what someone else says isn't counted against me in the appeal, unless i misunderstood you Cobby. (If it's about the thread OP, it was meant as a joke. It's the second time this happens in less than a week.)
EDIT: revised the OP to be less salty. Your advice is appreciated, and sorry for being a cunt.
Cheshify wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:53 pm -snip-
'

You fail to consider that i was not a ghost in this round. I saw this guy get thrown out by Logan Cox, who said he'd manhandle him if he came in again, then witnessed the assistant trying to crawl back in several times before the fight took place. He did not utter a single word during any of our interactions in the round, and didn't come in through the front lobby like anyone who was there legitimately would. How was i reasonably supposed to assume that he had gotten legitimate access, when every action i'd seen him take that round was that of a silent tider? He had clearly been asked to leave and not done so, and was (according to my belief at the time) once again intruding on my workspace. I am certain that attacking him with a welder was not unreasonable at that point.
Last edited by Annihilite111 on Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Curse of Greater Trialmin Attraction

Post by Annihilite111 » #636224

Cheshify wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:53 pm My reasoning for this note is because of poor escalation, your first interaction with the Assistant is an attack with a welder, as supported by logs. Additionally, your reasoning for attacking the Assistant was not sound, as logs show that Jordan Hutton (the assistant) was not the one breaking into the gravity generator.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 15:53:39.725] ATTACK: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) has attacked [Engineering Deliveries] with the screwdriver (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 15:53:50.050] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "I&#39;ll show you out" (Engineering (163,164,2))
[2022-04-03 15:53:56.710] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "Security to Engineering" (Engineering (163,163,2))
[2022-04-03 15:54:04.782] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "Assistant breaking into gravity control" (Engineering (162,163,2))
[2022-04-03 15:54:05.435] ATTACK: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) has temp shocked for 30 seconds [Abandoned Warehouse] (Aft Port Maintenance (66,104,2))
Jordan Hutton was across the entire map, hacking into the abandoned warehouse when Logan Cox was complaining about a tider getting into grav control.
When the the time of the attack actually happened, Jordan Hutton was already in engineering for up to a minute, as he was buying things from the vendor shortly before you attacked him.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:06:04.381] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "If you come back I&#39;ll crowbar your arse!" (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:20.041] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked [omni Temperature control unit] with the wrench (Supermatter Engine Room (169,163,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:38.121] julsruls (as Jordan Hutton at 157,150,2)
 - Using: /obj/machinery/vending/wardrobe/engi_wardrobe [0x2009a17]
 - new Vending fancy 1
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.227] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.228] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:45.101] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 46.5)  (Engineering (160,158,2))
With part of your justification for attacking Jordan Hutton not being related to him (the assistant that broke into gravgen), and the fact that security was not called on Jordan Hutton until well after the fight which was started, I do not believe that immediately escalating to lethal force to be justified.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:12:28.472] SAY: 16:12:28.472] SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "jordan hutton" (Medbay Treatment Center (79,105,2))
The fight itself did not involve a stolen captains sabre, and you were instead crit from the bottle smash and welder you used against him. May I ask why you thought a sabre was involved?

Public logs:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... attack.txt
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 4/game.txt

Admin-only logs:
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/terry/ ... 4/tgui.log

Additionally, I used an edited combination of all 3 logs with your, ironteapot, and julsruls's events filtered in.
Our first interaction was him ducking through the plastic flaps, seeing me approach him, and leave several times.

And you've forgotten a very important rule: Everyone is, by design, acting on flawed and incomplete information. Us drawing the conclusion that the assistant who broke in right next to gravgen also broke into gravgen is perfectly valid. We were genuinely under the belief that this was the case.
As for the sabre, i am absolutely certain that he had one in hand when we fought. Or atleast some long blade weapon, i didn't actually manage to examine him. My reflexes are kind of slow so i don't tend to get a very clear picture of combat situations. He had a long sword of some kind though

EDIT: And PLEASE for the love of god tell people when you note them. If i didn't have a hunch and went to check my admin remarks ingame i wouldn't even have had the chance to appeal. I do apologise for the somewhat disrespectful OP but being stealth noted signals a complete lack of respect for the person in question.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Mothblocks » #636240

I'm choosing to escalate this appeal up to the other head admins, will let you know the outcome ASAP.
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Cheshify » #636363

You fail to consider that i was not a ghost in this round. I saw this guy get thrown out by Logan Cox, who said he'd manhandle him if he came in again, then witnessed the assistant trying to crawl back in several times before the fight took place.
While Logan did have an encounter with an assistant trying to enter through the flaps, we can confirm that this is not Julsruls. This is because during the time this scuffle was going down, Julsruls was in the command hallway. There had to be a second assistant involved, one who was actually tiding into engineering, that you had plenty of opportunity to see from the freezer room.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:03:21.067] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "title" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:03:44.241] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "i slash you with my katana" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:03:54.259] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "oro no ga ta chi sama no" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:04:03.528] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "hey!" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:04.381] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "If you come back I&#39;ll crowbar your arse!" (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 16:04:13.128] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "you gotta roll for that" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Mothblocks » #636659

Just in case it wasn't clear, we still want you to engage with Cheshify, we plan on giving this a pass once it's sufficiently done enough between the two of you.
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Annihilite111 » #636762

Cheshify wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:10 pm
You fail to consider that i was not a ghost in this round. I saw this guy get thrown out by Logan Cox, who said he'd manhandle him if he came in again, then witnessed the assistant trying to crawl back in several times before the fight took place.
While Logan did have an encounter with an assistant trying to enter through the flaps, we can confirm that this is not Julsruls. This is because during the time this scuffle was going down, Julsruls was in the command hallway. There had to be a second assistant involved, one who was actually tiding into engineering, that you had plenty of opportunity to see from the freezer room.

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:03:21.067] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "title" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:03:44.241] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "i slash you with my katana" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:03:54.259] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "oro no ga ta chi sama no" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:04:03.528] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "hey!" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:04.381] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "If you come back I&#39;ll crowbar your arse!" (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 16:04:13.128] SAY: Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) "you gotta roll for that" (Command Hallway (97,129,2))
Maybe that's true. All i know is that i saw an assistant get kicked out and threatened, and then witnessed an assistant attempt to enter through the same route. I was focused on piping when i first noticed the commotion, so i didn't get a good look at the first assistant, and naturally assumed that it was the same guy who'd returned. I acted in good faith with the information i had, and if that information turned out to be false? Well, that's the way this game is designed to work. We've been basically going in circles with this for a while now so if you don't mind i'd like to ask the headmins for a decision (unless you feel like there was something you wanted to bring up).
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Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Cheshify » #636769

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:06:04.381] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "If you come back I&#39;ll crowbar your arse!" (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:20.041] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked [omni Temperature control unit] with the wrench (Supermatter Engine Room (169,163,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:38.121] julsruls (as Jordan Hutton at 157,150,2)
 - Using: /obj/machinery/vending/wardrobe/engi_wardrobe [0x2009a17]
 - new Vending fancy 1
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.227] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.228] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:45.101] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 46.5)  (Engineering (160,158,2))
I would just like to bring up the long period of time between the assistant entering engineering, going to the vending machine, and then seemingly being on their way out of engineering before he was attacked. I believe there was plenty of time to confirm their identity or take any other escalation option other than instantly attacking them with a welder. In light of this appeal, I would be willing to change the note to:

"Confused two assistant players, one of which breaking into engineering, for another that was promoted to engineer. B&E assistant was warned by a different engineer to go away. Upon seeing the promoted assistant later, delayed for enough time to be able to confirm they were the B&E assistant, yet still decided to wordlessly attack them."
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Annihilite111
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am
Byond Username: Annihilite

Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Annihilite111 » #636973

Cheshify wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:26 pm

Code: Select all

[2022-04-03 16:06:04.381] SAY: IronTeapot/(Logan Cox) "If you come back I&#39;ll crowbar your arse!" (Engineering (163,165,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:20.041] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked [omni Temperature control unit] with the wrench (Supermatter Engine Room (169,163,2))
[2022-04-03 16:06:38.121] julsruls (as Jordan Hutton at 157,150,2)
 - Using: /obj/machinery/vending/wardrobe/engi_wardrobe [0x2009a17]
 - new Vending fancy 1
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.227] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:39.228] julsruls in tgui-window-2/close (suspending)
[2022-04-03 16:06:45.101] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has attacked Julsruls/(Jordan Hutton) with industrial welding tool (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BURN) (NEWHP: 46.5)  (Engineering (160,158,2))
I would just like to bring up the long period of time between the assistant entering engineering, going to the vending machine, and then seemingly being on their way out of engineering before he was attacked. I believe there was plenty of time to confirm their identity or take any other escalation option other than instantly attacking them with a welder. In light of this appeal, I would be willing to change the note to:

"Confused two assistant players, one of which breaking into engineering, for another that was promoted to engineer. B&E assistant was warned by a different engineer to go away. Upon seeing the promoted assistant later, delayed for enough time to be able to confirm they were the B&E assistant, yet still decided to wordlessly attack them."
As i recall he was bringing a crate out of engineering when i first noticed him. I was focusing on the pipes and didn't pay attention to who was moving around the storage area for the most part, and don't see how the time between the confrontation and the first instance matters. I was fed up with what i percieved to be incessant tiding from one guy and went directly to crit him and kick his ass out. Again, i'd like to escalate this to headmins as i don't believe i was breaking the rules of escalation (with the information i had). It's not like i killed him either. Escalating to armed attacks against a serial tider seems perfectly in line to current policy to me.
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Mothblocks
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
Byond Username: Jaredfogle

Re: [Cheshify] Annihilite- Revised, less salty OP edition

Post by Mothblocks » #637438

There's a lot of facts about this case that make it sufficiently weird on both sides.

The first, and biggest, is that the initial appeal is a complete mischaracterization about what actually happened. That's not your fault, you didn't even seem to realize there were 2 assistants until explicitly written out later in the thread, but it's what initially tipped me off to this whole scenario.

The other is the note wording itself, which does imply a much different scenario than what actually happened, and also tipped me off. "Attacked an assistant with engineering access" tells an odd story to admins, whereas the note replacement Cheshify suggested is much more apt.

Another is the situation revolving the second assistant coming in--going through a windoor with access (the only other door they had access to was the grav gen door), going to a vendor (which, IMO, is really weird for a thief to do), then leaving is frankly just...odd. Following that, a lot of the back-and-forth on this thread continued to provide weird extra information that would've been very helpful to know earlier. The fact that the assistant was seen moving out a crate is something I would've loved to just see early on.

And lastly, the pre-revised and very antagonistic version of this thread, combined with everything else, made it extremely hard for any of us to sympathize with your original post.

For what it's worth, let this be a lesson in two things. Oh, the appeal will be upheld, by the way, on the basis that there is significant enough grey area to not be worth such fine scrupulousness. I just wanted to make sure you read all that.

1. If you have the ability to, double check who you are attacking.
2. Provide as much information as you see relevant both to admins and appeals.
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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