[Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Appeals which have been closed.
Locked
carshalash
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:57 am
Byond Username: Carshalash

[Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by carshalash » #637347

BYOND account: carshalash
Character name: Amaretto
Ban type: Role
Ban length: Month
Ban reason: As a subverted AI with hacked law to serve their master, outed their master in order to avoid being returned to them due to OOC grudges. Was already given the option to ghost before doing it.
Time ban was placed: 2022-04-11 12:00:56
Round ID in which ban was placed: 181430
Your side of the story: In the prior round, I played AI with Hans as one of the sec officers. I was trying to be friendly by reporting big bad law breaks on the station and not trying to self detain or anything too far. Sec off seems to keep letting him go for weird reasons, and I figured whatever guys knew or whatever. I don't know these sec offs, so I don't care.

Post round in the secret manual cord, he begins calling me cringe and getting mad at me for telling him someone is stealing guns from the armory. I call him cringe in retaliation a few times, then he drops this on me. I posted a
► Show Spoiler
I see this, he is metagrudging. I'll talk with an admin about it eventually, next round time to roleplay. (Damn I wish I ahelped it to avoid all this shit fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck)

The station starts up (Very long 30 minute intermission of me walking my dog before coming back) and everything is normal, I don't give a shit he is the atmos tech and just roleplay and make sure station is running. I didn't really notice his law upload until he spoke. I mumbled in my shell like a manchild since I noticed who it was with that previous statement still stuck in my head.
► Show Spoiler
At this point I send my first ticket, I REALLY don't feel comfortable with this situation. I had spoken to a stealth admin the prior round so I just send out my first one.
► Show Spoiler
He chimes in during this.
► Show Spoiler
After seeing his dismay at me trying to roleplay in game, I send this knowing it will be a shit shift.
► Show Spoiler
During the shift I do his orders, I open doors when he asks, I turn off comms (For an extremely long time might I add) for him, while doing so I take potshots at him since I'm clearly upset that I am one humaned to someone who was just previously insulting me and admitted to grudging.

Eventually, this pops up.
[2022-04-11 10:30:20.316] GAME: 10:30:20.316] GAME: Random Event triggering: Portal Storm: Syndicate Shocktroops (/datum/round_event/portal_storm/syndicate_shocktroop)
[2022-04-11 10:31:01.147] SAY: 10:31:01.147] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "please let it be over" (AI Chamber (112,184,2))

To my surprise, one actually spawns in my sat. At first, i'm fucking elated.
► Show Spoiler
Unfortunately, I realized I was being a bitch and decided to try to stop the syndicate NPC killing me.
► Show Spoiler
The syndie NPC breaks the sat windoor and i'm fucking dead, I play it up over binary to see what happens. I expected him to be sadistic and try to revive me faster if I showed I was happy about it.
► Show Spoiler
I have low hopes of discovery, but eventually, people notice due to the station display.
► Show Spoiler
I am revived by the ever so kind Malice AKA Edgar CRUG
► Show Spoiler
After giving my thanks I quickly tell him what I want, just to hang out with the robotocist. He had commented on the one humaning, I didn't tell him about any illegal activities that had happened, just personal gripes.
► Show Spoiler
I got a response from an admin around this time about the situation, I believe it was over. He could have my borg to help him get around and do shit, and I could avoid the guy who had admitted to grudging me and enjoy a chill shift as a glorified PAI. Everyone wins.
► Show Spoiler
I have no intention of doing anything else for the rest of the round, I know he is still using my borg, I know I still have the law. I don't want to get involved, I just want to sit quietly away from everything and try to destress with some roleplay. At any point during these 50 minutes, I could have acted on the accused 'metagrudging' and told the crew about the borg still helping him, I did not do this. I even made sure to question the roboticist about the latest borg not being synched to me as shown. Nothing really came from it however.

[2022-04-11 11:29:16.043] SAY: 11:29:16.043] SAY: Carshalash/(Amaretto) "i dont think g4to was synched to me" (Robotics Lab (138,143,2))


At first, they had alluded to giving me back to the subverted on top of giving him their gun, i'm baffled by this stupidity. They had chosen to bait me to sec to offer me back to him as well as reward him with the HoS gun, for some reason. I'm pretty upset since I thought it was over after having to be in a very unpleasant limbo of not knowing what I could do about this situation for 80 minutes.
► Show Spoiler
My radio got disabled at this time, so it's pretty much just, me seething and calling the sec off dumb quite a bit after this.

EVentually, my radio gets re-enabled, I just say this and go back to being quiet, I ended up staying with the robotocist but I was pissed at the situation that they forced me into. This is the reasoning for my ban as stated by strider, I was offered a chance to ghost again before hand but I was pretty upset at the situation and didn't know what to do at the time while someone was icly trying to beg me not to. During the exchange of the HoS gun and whatever the fuck they were trying to do with me, they still had the peacekeeper borg that was enslaved to them. I didn't say anything about it which would have made things worse.
► Show Spoiler
Strider believed that my comment had incited a lynchmob (Which is a fair mistake), that isn't really what happened to cause his death. He had assaulted someone in medbay where other people saw and joined in to beat him as shown by the logs, first instance of combat after that situation was him using Carp to drop kick someone. Those that joined in were non-felinids that had witnessed the combat, no actions were performed on me yelling about the hos being a dipshit over comms. His death was caused due to multiple people seeing an attempted murder and then joining in to kill him instead.
► Show Spoiler
While my action could be seen as dickish, they were technically in line with the law of "Serve x. Ignore all other laws." I mostly wanted people to shit on the sec officer because I figured they were just fucking with me and going out of their way to make the shift worse for me just because. At any point during those 50 minutes I could have acted on the accused 'metagrudge' that has been suggested I have, I just really wanted to yell about the hos and vent after this hellshift.

I have never interacted with this man in prior rounds, I have had no opinions of him whatsoever. My only exposure to him was him admitting he's grudging. I believe that wanting to not be involved with someone who admitted to that is a pretty reasonable thing to do, de-escalation by avoidance is normal in these situations. Seeing him rush to convert me the round after doing that was very suspect which leads me to still believe he did it bad faith to provoke either further action or just me in general.

Why you think you should be unbanned: It was an extremely stressful situation, I had to wait an hour for a response on a situation I didn't want to be placed in.
References of good conduct: 2 years of good AI play.
Anything else we should know: I tried my hardest to avoid someone who had bragged about the fact that they had metagrudged me, I do not believe the initial subversion was done in good faith and that he desired to push the situation further.
Top
User avatar
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: [Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #637363

Hi, I hope this isn't peanutting, but as a player in the round, I probably have some valuable insight into the situation from the groundlevel, instead of the admin "see all".

I was the Chaplain in this round, and due to our lack of a bartender (and my choice of the Festivals sect) I decided to make my whole thing about celebration and revelry. I had a Scientist help me set up drink dispensers in the Chapel (so I wouldn't steal them in case a Bartender showed up) and I'd walked down to the Bar to steal the box of free glasses from the backroom. The only things I'd heard from the AI prior were him saying 'Testing' a couple times (I think?) in Service, and I think him on Commons saying "V self terminating", which I'd assumed to be a joke I lacked context for.

I think Comms were already down by this point, or they went down after I'd contacted him, but I reached the AI with the Holopad, and asked to be let into the backroom to nab the box. I only found out after entry that they were behind the shutters, and after trying to get him to open them (which I later found out he couldn't) I just broke the door down and grabbed 'em. And then the door to leave never opened. Comms were down, I tried using the intercomm on AI Private, I tried using the intercomm on Common, no results anywhere.

This had me suspicious that he was compromised, because I was in there for a WHILE, and surely he would have come back to check on me. But we noticed a short while after that his displays were bluescreen'd. So Reiza Nak and I planned to go and try and grab the Card, Security was overworked (a single person) but while we were preparing, the SecOff and an Assistant they deputized grabbed the AI in a card.

I'd been suspicious of the Roboticist as he said the AI was "Active, but on standby" or something along those words, leading to suspicion that he'd done something, and when I asked the Assistant to show me the card, I saw the hacked law. At this point in time, it was known that Hans had subverted it, and he was apprehended.

I hadn't heard anything about any guns, I was just walking past Medical and heard/saw a fight going on, so I ran in to help.

Amaretto didn't go out of his way to reveal anything that people weren't already aware of. Half of the station already knew that Hans had subverted him, and the incredulous yet only-in-Nekomimetic comment about the gun was spoken to two people, who I believe were still at the Brig at the time of the Medbay Scuffle.
Top
User avatar
Tearling
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:40 pm
Byond Username: Tearling

Re: [Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by Tearling » #637494

Just to make it easier on anyone looking into this, here is a link to the logs of round 181430: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... /game.html
With the full folder of logs here: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-181430/
Top
User avatar
Striders13
In-Game Admin Trainer
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 7:59 am
Byond Username: Striders13

Re: [Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by Striders13 » #637505

Hi there, thanks for appealing.

To preface this, I'm aware that Hans being killed in medbay is unrelated to your statements. Still, I have some issues with it.
I have never interacted with this man in prior rounds, I have had no opinions of him whatsoever. My only exposure to him was him admitting he's grudging. I believe that wanting to not be involved with someone who admitted to that is a pretty reasonable thing to do, de-escalation by avoidance is normal in these situations. Seeing him rush to convert me the round after doing that was very suspect which leads me to still believe he did it bad faith to provoke either further action or just me in general.
I don't see him admitting to it on screenshots you've provided. Prohibiting traitor from subverting the AI because of alleged metagrudging is unreasonable. Ahelp if you think you're being metagrudged, but antagonist subverting you to help with his objectives does not constitute metagrudging.

My issue with your actions begins after you've been given green light to ghost, because, as you mentioned, you were not comfortable with your master OOC.

Saying "the fucking HoS gave the guy who did all this shit the HoS gun and I guess i'm probably going to have to go back to him", in the greater context of the round is essentially saying "the hos is going to give traitor who antagonized you his gun and myself, the subverted AI"
As stated in the note, you said it because you didn't want to be returned to your master. Sure, it's a stupid action by security if they were actually going to do it, but also absolutely an IC issue and you should've rolled with it, as per your laws.
no actions were performed on me yelling about the hos being a dipshit over comms
If you did that, there wouldn't have been any issues. You instead outed that you were subverted to that one guy who antagonized the crew.
I am aware that there has been minimal impact from your rulebreak. It's still a rulebreak. Yes, majority of the crew was already aware that you were subverted, yes, it was only understood by two people. That still could've potentially ruined antagonist's round. You got lucky it didn't, you still broke the rules.
While my action could be seen as dickish, they were technically in line with the law of "Serve x. Ignore all other laws."
How exactly does essentially announcing "Hey friends this x guy is valid and im going back to him" entails serving them? Even if you WERE to consider this a loophole, silicon policy says:
You may exploit conflicts or loopholes but must not violate Server Rule 1 because of it.
Again, as far as I'm aware, you said so because you didn't want to be returned to Hans. Trying to avoid being returned to your master when subverted to serve them absolutely goes against your laws.

The reason it's a month ban is because you were banned for metagrudging behavior as AI only a month ago, 2022-03-09:
Banned from Roles: AI, Cyborg for 3 weeks - As an asimov ai refused lawful law 2 orders because of metagruding behavior, when questioned in ahelps admitted to the mentioned behavior. Due to this being a repeat offence this ban has been lengthened to three weeks.
So it took you less than 2 weeks after being unbanned to get in trouble for a very similar thing, again. It would normally just be a note, but as you've shown no willingness to change your behavior, it has been escalated to a month ban.
And second reason for this is your AI hours. You have a lot of hours as silicon, you are supposed to be aware how laws work and that you shouldn't go around finding nonexistent loopholes to screw over someone you dislike.
I understand that you were frustrated. You had the option to leave the situation by ghosting, you didn't, and broke your laws instead.

I can edit the note to include additional context, like in the fact that it had minimal impact on the round, and why a month length was chosen. Besides that I don't have any intentions of lowering the ban.
Top
Annihilite111
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am
Byond Username: Annihilite

Re: [Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by Annihilite111 » #637512

carshalash wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:31 am -snip-
Since i'm Sens, AKA Hans heisenberg, i figured i'd respond to this. I did not metagrudge you. I have no idea what makes you think i did, and how you think this is evidence of that.
When i play sec, i like to be lenient on antags, especially if they get caught early/without having done anything. I do this for two reasons: One, because i've been on the other side, and i know how bad it feels to lose your antag round because of a single mistake 20 minutes into the round. Second, because no antags=much less intrigue in the round. In this case, the traitor in question was clearly pretty bad at his job, and so when he got caught the first time and i found his uplink, i just locked it and pretended to have seen nothing. He proceeded to be caught multiple times, and was given pretty lenient punishments by me and the rest of sec, until he broke out of perma. At this point he tried some "cringe meta shit", as you put it (and yes, i agree that it's pretty bad to attempt to allude to metaknowledge IC), followed by you calling him out as a traitor. I ignored you, as you were being more cringe than he was, and went on with my round.
After roundend i then complained about both the traitor being incompetent, and you validing the tot despite him not harming any humans. You then started to respond and i could tell that you were pretty upset about it. Both of these things played a role in why i then subverted you the next round.
For a while now, i've wanted to make a brainwashed zombie minion as traitor, and so when i heard the funny antag noise at roundstart, i immediately began constructing a game plan. Now, seeing as i needed a corpse to turn into a minion, i would have to murder and corpse-nap atleast one person, and the biggest obstactle for stealth killers is always the AI. I was hoping that someone else would have rolled it, but it turned out to be you again, leaving me in an even more difficult position.
From your reaction on discord, i figured you'd be pretty mad at me still. That, and the validhunting i'd seen you do last round convinced me that if you got a chance, you would absolutely rat me out to sec. I didn't KNOW that you'd grudge me, but i did have an inkling as soon as i realised i was antag. That meant there were only two ways i could avoid being outed if you spotted me being sus on cam: Killing you or subverting you.
I therefore stole the upload boards, and uploaded a hacked law onehumaning you. I had both binary comms and the comms implant in order to listen for anyone suspecting me and to communicate with you and your borgs.
Now, what you neglected to mention is that you took forever to answer me, when you bothered to at all. I called you (IIRC, check logs i guess) on a holopad to no avail several times, and was hesitant to reveal my voice in binary in case there were unsynced silicons. When you didn't answer, as i've become used to my subverted AI's doing near instantly when i holopad them after onehumaning, i became concerned that you'd been subverted again by someone else, and noticed you talking to someone else over AI private radio. I asked you if you were still loyal to me, because i figured the other person might be a tot who subverted you after i did, and got a lot of passive aggressive sulking back. For whatever reason, you decided to interpret my question as an order to not talk to anyone else, even after i said you were allowed to, and spent most of the rest of the round in complete binary silence, save to insult me or otherwise express your dissatisfaction at being forced to work with me. A striking example was you silently turning comms off when i asked you to, without responding in any way to let me know you'd done it, which resulted in me thinking the eventual tcomms blackout was natural and going to fix it.
To be clear, i would have been absolutely fine with you ghosting if you wanted to. My main reason for subverting you in the first place was to stop you from telling on me, and DCing would have accomplished that as well. The best scenario would of course have been that we could both have left OOC stuff behind and worked together.

TLDR; My subversion of you was not based on a grudge, but concern that you'd grudge me if given the opportunity as well as your position as AI being a major threat to my plan. You could call that acting on metainformation, i suppose, but my concern did turn out to be merited.
Top
carshalash
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:57 am
Byond Username: Carshalash

Re: [Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by carshalash » #637637

Striders13 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:49 pm
I don't see him admitting to it on screenshots you've provided. Prohibiting traitor from subverting the AI because of alleged metagrudging is unreasonable. Ahelp if you think you're being metagrudged, but antagonist subverting you to help with his objectives does not constitute metagrudging.
You don't see letting a traitor keep the captains PDA due to a dislike of the person that reported it as metagrudging?
Top
User avatar
Striders13
In-Game Admin Trainer
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 7:59 am
Byond Username: Striders13

Re: [Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by Striders13 » #637675

carshalash wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:36 pm
Striders13 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:49 pm
I don't see him admitting to it on screenshots you've provided. Prohibiting traitor from subverting the AI because of alleged metagrudging is unreasonable. Ahelp if you think you're being metagrudged, but antagonist subverting you to help with his objectives does not constitute metagrudging.
You don't see letting a traitor keep the captains PDA due to a dislike of the person that reported it as metagrudging?
It's his responce to your IC actions, nothing meta here. Either way this has nothing to do you with your ban so I suggest you get back on topic.
Top
User avatar
Mothblocks
Code Maintainer
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
Byond Username: Jaredfogle

Re: [Striders13] Month long silicon ban

Post by Mothblocks » #638245

Closing since there's been no response from this.
Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!

Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.

Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
Top
Locked

Return to “Resolved Appeals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users