[Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

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RareGambler
Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 9:54 pm
Byond Username: Radugadew1

[Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by RareGambler » #642682

BYOND account: Radugadew1
Character name: Bando Landicoot
Ban type: Server
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: possible doxing or fake doxing/joke thereabout
Time ban was placed: 2022-05-28 14:39:24
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 183918
Your side of the story: I was joking about one of the famous Terry characters in OOC chat. The joke was something like: "In-game you are "chad-name", and IRL you "virgin-name". Name was fully imaginative and had no associations with real life, it was simply a quibble. It seems that I've inattentively read the rules, and missed part about doxxing. No one really laughed at my joke, and soon I found myself permed.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I thought about it all these days and I fully admit my guilt. I shouldn't have been joking about things this serious (doxing), and I think that rules like this make our server prettier and healthier (there is a lot of examples of toxic communities, part of which I don't want to be). I don't want to repeat this mistake ever again, I just want back to my favorite game
References of good conduct: Not what I can think of.
Anything else we should know: Again, my first emotions when I understood ban reason was "oh, they're really right, I totally deserved it, what a fool-fool me". I will understand if you find this unacceptible like totally, yet, I want to be back and I'm here, at your mercy.
RareGambler
Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 9:54 pm
Byond Username: Radugadew1

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by RareGambler » #642689

In addition:

Good man wisely suggested me to call for a person who was fake-doxed to testify in my defense... Now, there is a problem about this good idea. I can't unequivocally attribute this character (we're talking about Gor'Rok) to one username, because I saw myself three (!) different people playing as him... Don't know - should I search for all of them, or at least one would be enough?

It's also will be seen in the logs (I remember well the full text of that ill-fated joke), that name I mentioned there (and which was the reason of non-doxing rule ban) can lead to 50000 of random people. Howbeit, it doesen't diminish my guilt and obvious malice in trying to bully someone OOC.

I previously talked to Iain0 about some things indirectly related to bullying, and that's what I think - admins do have access to an inlimitable source of evidence of people double-dealing. I can't beat my own nature and my own frustration, yet, I will try my best to minimize the toxicity it inflicts on others, according to rules.
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Rohen_Tahir
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:00 pm
Byond Username: Rohen Tahir
Location: Primary fool storage
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Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by Rohen_Tahir » #642692

That message specified an occupation in addition to a name and was sent twice. Why are you omitting those facts in your appeal?
RareGambler
Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 9:54 pm
Byond Username: Radugadew1

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by RareGambler » #642693

Rohen_Tahir wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:17 pm That message specified an occupation in addition to a name and was sent twice. Why are you omitting those facts in your appeal?
That's true, I'm sorry for omitting it. Thanks for clarifying it.
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Lulufren
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:41 pm
Byond Username: Lulufren

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by Lulufren » #642733

Hi, so this is technically part of the Discord Rules.
I could try asking the player in question if they want to comment on this (ideally privately in an ahelp or forum dm),
and while i do feel inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, i also feel like i need to ask headmins their opinions on this, as the policy is very strict on these matters specifically (and for good reason).
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Lulufren
In-Game Admin
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:41 pm
Byond Username: Lulufren

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by Lulufren » #642769

After hearing some opinions from other admins, i have chosen to uphold the permaban.
Even if i believe it was just a misguided attempt of a joke/bullying, this is too serious a matter to be giving second chances on.

You can ask for a headmin opinion on this, or re-appeal in 12 months
RareGambler
Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 9:54 pm
Byond Username: Radugadew1

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by RareGambler » #642772

I ask for headmins opinion.

Just to make that clear: I'm not asking for any second chanses - I made a mistake out of incaution, and I'll never repeat it again. If you check my ban history, I've never repeated same mistake.

This is some kind of misunderstanding. I may sometimes have bad temper, but why you should act with me like this? Out of what? But sure, I will accept any verdict.
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Timberpoes
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:54 pm
Byond Username: Timberpoes

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by Timberpoes » #642995

Any scenarios with doxing are inherently bad. "Don't dox or joke about doxing" isn't in our core server rules because it's just expected that people won't do it, the same as how we don't have a rule saying "Don't cheat at the game". We need it on the Discord because Discord will shut down our server if people don't follow the rules.

Our general policy for this is zero-tolerance. Joking about doxing will get someone permanently banned from the game servers. Fake doxing will usually result in a complete server blacklist here. Real doxing can result in a cross-server blacklist where your ban is mirrored to all SS13 game communities who'll care.

With that explanation out of the way, I'd like you to explain why you believe our server's zero-tolerance policy shouldn't apply to you in this case. This isn't a "grovel before" us moment, this is an opportunity for you to attempt to carve out an exception to said zero-tolerance policy in the hopes that it resonates with us enough that we'll make an exception.
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RareGambler
Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 9:54 pm
Byond Username: Radugadew1

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by RareGambler » #643019

Timberpoes wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:20 pm With that explanation out of the way, I'd like you to explain why you believe our server's zero-tolerance policy shouldn't apply to you in this case. This isn't a "grovel before" us moment, this is an opportunity for you to attempt to carve out an exception to said zero-tolerance policy in the hopes that it resonates with us enough that we'll make an exception.
Thank you for your kidness, I think I will appear with explanation in a few days.
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Mothblocks
Code Maintainer
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
Byond Username: Jaredfogle

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by Mothblocks » #644715

its been a few days
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!

Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.

Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
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Timberpoes
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:54 pm
Byond Username: Timberpoes

Re: [Lulufren] Radugadew1 - Bad example of cluwne IRL

Post by Timberpoes » #645135

Lulufren placed this ban under my supervision. I suggested the ban as a precaution, anything potentially dox-related or dox-adjacent is taken very seriously and acted on immediately.

The headmin team had concerns that the style and format of your joke resembled that of casual doxing utilised in other communities.

The host chipped into a recent discussion we had about how to resolve this ban, outlining the following public-friendly interpretation of the rules against joking about doxing:
MrStonedOne wrote:When it was made, the idea was that the rule is worded strictly to warn players that the line between first-and-final-warning and no-warning ban is thin and should not be played with.
The kind of jokes in our minds at the time was people making light of somebody getting doxxed, or "jokingly" encouraging somebody to dox somebody else, or talking about how funny it would be if somebody got doxxed.
We agree that this doesn't fall neatly under the umbrella of the above quote, and as such we will not be applying a zero-tolerance policy.

As Lulufren has been guided by other admins and headmins through the appeal, we have no issue with their appeal denial.

We will be overturning this ban and replacing it with a note:
Said the following in OOC: "In SS13 you are mighty warrior Gor'Rok. But IRL you're just a wanky [profession] [real-sounding name]." - Has been warned that this joke format can be interpreted as doxing and that the admin team tends to adopt a ban-first ask-later approach when they are worried about doxing. It is better to err on the side of caution and not use real life sounding names in OOC jokes.
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