/tg/Station 13

BYOND account: SmallBlue
Character name: BL-00-M
Ban type: None, note
Note:

(MRP) As a borg slaved to an asimov AI, they disobeyed a directive from that AI to not pursue a nearby ninja. Player went into maint after the ninja with a crowbar to "stun or hit them," which additionally puts them at odds with their asimov lawset. They were then EMPd and subverted. Player cites a lack of skill for their poor decision-making, and has pledged to be less reckless about their silicon conduct in the future.

Time note was placed: 2022-05-27
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 183840
Your side of the story:
I was playing as cyborg, slaved under the AI Terrabyte under Asimov. There was a ninja walking around the station, enacting explosions and causing general death and mayhem. I had just exited robotics from getting upgrades, I believe, and I saw the ninja hanging around toxins.
Quick flashback to earlier in the round, I had encountered the ninja before, around the hallways and in medical. The cloak on their suit doesn't make them fully transparent so I could see them, and since they hadn't caused any mayhem by then I saw them as harmless, so I joked around by getting 5 tiles away from them while they were standing still and pointing at them and spinning around in a "i know you're theeeereeee" kind of way, and at no point did the ninja attack, emag, or subvert me, thus I thought they recognized my joking-around-yness.
Back to the present, now with the ninja having absolutely fucked up many places in the station, I no longer could joke around. With the idea that the ninja saw me as a little jokester and thought I presented no threat to them, I tried getting close to flash them with my flash. What I had missed is that, back when I was in robotics getting me upgrades, I was too busy to notice the ai telling me to NOT go after the ninja. I should've heard, because when I did go after said ninja, they, unsurprisingly, flashed and converted me into a sabotage borg, something I did not see coming (didn't know the ninja could DO that). That's when I got bwoinked.

Why you think your note should be changed:
I don't think the note itself is misplaced, I fucked up and it should be noted, but I'd like for it to be rewritten since I think the following bits paint me in an overly negative picture:

On the "they disobeyed a directive form that AI to not pursue a nearby ninja" bit, I'd like for it to be specified that I did not wiling-fully and knowingly disobey my AI, I simply missed their message on binary saying that I should not go after them.

On the "Player went into maint after the ninja with a crowbar to "stun or hit them," which additionally puts them at odds with their asimov lawset" bit, I think the whole sentence is completely misleading. The ninja could've been any race, sillicon policy (as far as I know) does not state an innocent until proven otherwise mindset should be had in regards to deciding whether someone is human or not. Meanwhile,* the ninja was actively causing human harm around the station, which warranted action to prevent further human harm (SPECIALLY since they were hanging around toxins and they were known for making explosions). All this to say that, at the very least, it could be reasonably argued that I did follow my asimov lawset, I was not "at odds" with it.
Either way, I did not actually plan at any point to hit them. I mentioned I wanted to "stun or hit them" in the bwoink once to clarify that I did not intend to kill them at all, since I believed that was one of the reasons why the admin bwoinked me, but it was taken like I intended to harm them. I simply wanted to disable them. Even if I didn't know whether they were human, I also did not know whether they weren't, so to air in the side of caution the main goal was to stun them.

I do have some more complaints on the "Player cites a lack of skill for their poor decision-making" bit, by me saying that I was stupid or something akin to that during the bwoink I mainly meant that I did not consider the possiblity of the ninja actually fighting me and I did not know the ninja could subvert me (I thought they could only emag me, but did not know if that would unlink me from my AI (again I dont want it to seem like I went straight after the ninja to get emagged, I really thought they wouldn't fight back)).
I meant to cite a lack of knowledge. I'm not saying I don't lack in skill, I do, but this comment makes it seem like the only reason why I decided poorly was because I wasn't robust enough to single-handedly defeat the ninja, which is not true at all.

That's about it.

*Edit: Sillicon policy does, in fact, specify that the ninja is to be considered human unless otherwise is seen. My bad, still think my other points stand though.

Dropping by to note that unless someone has shown you they are nonhuman (unusual speech verb like meows/crackles/hisses/etc., has wings, has a tail, has an obvious lizard face, wearing plasmaman gear, etc.) you must err on the side of caution about whether someone is human.

Which is what I did!

Panda proooobably didn't want to step too far into the realms of peanut posting, so I thank them for their contribution which has prompted me to briefly post the following point of clarity in response to something you said in your appeal:

TheSmallBlue wrote:The ninja could've been any race, sillicon policy (as far as I know) does not state an innocent until proven otherwise mindset should be had in regards to deciding whether someone is human or not.

It's buried within the "Is it Human?" section at the bottom of silipol https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Silicon_Policy

It bundles Space Ninja and disguised players together under the following:

Space Ninja / Disguised players Human UNTIL the AI or cyborg WITNESSES some aspect of the player to indicate they are not human (speech modifier in chat, removal of disguise revealing non-human feature, etc).

"Disguised players" is a pretty broad-stroke brush and it could be much clearer what we mean by this, but this is what most admins will rely on. As an admin team, it is broadly enforced that Silicons must assume a player is human unless and until it is witnessed otherwise. In all cases this may get messy where only an AI or a borg (and not both) has witnessed non-humanity and have to rely on each other, but that's all part and parcel of playing SS13.

Historically the reverse has also been true. Admins that ruled Silicons killing humans because they had IC features that suggested non-humanity (plus other extenuating shift factors) have survived judicial review. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=28132

This, of course, isn't directly related to your appeal or conduct, hence why it's probably a bit of a peanut. Just a teaching moment from ol' Timberpoes.

That is giving you full credit for mentioning

TheSmallBlue wrote:Even if I didn't know whether they were human, I also did not know whether they weren't, so to air in the side of caution the main goal was to stun them.

which is ultimately the correct approach to take even if you didn't know where to find it in the rules.

Ah I see, thank you. I edited the post.

Hi there!

Yeah, upon review it does read more harshly than I'd probably intended. I gave the ticket the ol' review and decided to alter the language to be less from the school of "word for word" and more "what they meant," which has the added benefit of making it a bit less aggro!

WAY happier with it now, thank you. Thread can be locked now, I think