[AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

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Nope22
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:21 am
Byond Username: Nope22

[AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

Post by Nope22 » #648204

BYOND account: Nope22

Character name: Doorknob

Ban type: Note

Ban length: Note.

Ban reason: "During Round 187740 called another player a faggot directly in dead chat. Player was a ninja that ended their Malf AI Delta attempt by killing them in the last few moments. Told this breaks Rule 11 and to not do it again."

Time ban was placed: 2022-08-02 06:24:02

Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil

Round ID in which ban was placed:187740

Your side of the story: Short story, get midround malf AI, run into a lot of problems, the first of which was an atmos tech who while technically didn't AI proof the pipes made it such a fucking mess and maze of filters, values and god knows what else that it was impossible for my pea brain to figure out, already cutting me off from an AI's most powerful weapon to use, plasma flooding.

Ironically the next thing that happened that was another problem was me converting said Atmos tech into a cyborg with a factory, he instantly commits suicide upon conversion, fucking me over even further, then I encountered some wacky error with the processing power unable to go over 100 points for a few minutes, all of this eventually lead up to the final minutes where I had gone delta and was defending my core from mechs, magic carp zombies when out of the blue a space ninja who I had never seen up until now, sauters in, EMP's then converts my malfunction hacked cyborgs then teleports into my core and ends me with 10-15 seconds left to the nuke.

Suffice I say, I was salty, I was mad, malding out of control by saying how bullshit that was and calling it cancer beyond measure and in my final insult before flushing it out of my system and acknowledging it happens and to move on, I called him a faggot.

Why you think you should be unbanned: The interpretation of this word is frankly, wonky, I could have chosen other words that wouldn't have net me with this problem, correct but with what happened that round I was a salt mine running on overdrive, although I know *very* clearly when it's crossing the line when it comes to slurs against groups of people, this wasn't one of them, it was a just the in the heat insult because he fucking owned my ass, not a jab, attack or otherwise tearing into the player in question, I just felt scammed getting ninja'd with nothing I could do about it with 10 seconds left to go on the clock.

I also wish to point out, as Awkward himself references rule 11 to put this note on me that there's specifically a lining in that section

"This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]"."

I don't like to rule lawyer, I didn't even want this to be discussed on the forums and have it dealt with on the server but my attempts to try and get the point across that it was merely an in-the-moment salty insult and not a bigoted attacked on the ninja player met with a conflicting viewpoint, so here we are.

References of good conduct: It's a note

Anything else we should know: Not really, I was just salty, I flushed it out and got on with it the next round, I just really think the note was unnecessary as It wasn't an attack
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Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: [AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

Post by Pandarsenic » #648297

Linking the note appeal rules at viewtopic.php?p=347563#p347563 for easy reference
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
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AwkwardStereo
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:24 am
Byond Username: AwkwardStereo

Re: [AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

Post by AwkwardStereo » #648366

It was my intention to get to this sooner than I am now, so sorry for the delay. I had a much longer think about this than I thought I would and today was busier than usual for me.
[2022-08-02 06:02:58.611] SAY: Nope22/(Doorknob) (DEAD) "The ninja was a faggot" (AI Chamber (212,145,2))
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... 0/game.txt
The remark in question and a link to the logs.

Nope22 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:19 amThe interpretation of this word is frankly, wonky...
Its a derogatory slur used to refer to homosexuals. There's really nothing wonky about it.

Nope22 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:19 am...I could have chosen other words that wouldn't have net me with this problem, correct but with what happened that round I was a salt mine running on overdrive, although I know *very* clearly when it's crossing the line when it comes to slurs against groups of people, this wasn't one of them, it was a just the in the heat insult because he fucking owned my ass, not a jab, attack or otherwise tearing into the player in question, I just felt scammed getting ninja'd with nothing I could do about it with 10 seconds left to go on the clock.
You could have and you didn't. The first word you reached for to refer to the ninja was "faggot". While I am sympathetic to the amount of bullshit you had to deal with that shift, I am absolutely not sympathetic to using "I was mad" in your defense of breaking the rules. I don't mind amending the note to include mentioning your bugged points and the suiciding borg as points of frustration leading up to this moment though.

Nope22 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:19 amI don't like to rule lawyer, I didn't even want this to be discussed on the forums and have it dealt with on the server but my attempts to try and get the point across that it was merely an in-the-moment salty insult and not a bigoted attacked on the ninja player met with a conflicting viewpoint, so here we are.
Rule 11 wrote:Intentionally seeking to demean others due to their actual or perceived race, sex, gender, disability, orientation or the like is not tolerated. It is not our goal to create or enforce a list of banned words and instead our goal to eject the expression of bigotry from the community. Enforcement will be less PC based and more common sense based with that goal in mind.

This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]".
I am entirely jaded to the usage of slurs in conversation and take no great personal offense to them. I've been around on the internet for a while, they get used to death, and there was a time in my life where I used them quite liberally (but have since excluded them from my diction). I don't have the best mind for discerning ignorance, bigotry, or a combination of the two. However, faggot is a step up from the traditional pool of insults that people sling around and it is one with a great deal of hateful history behind it. In this instance, its use case matches what Rule 11 points out as a violation wherein someone is directly referred to as a slur.

I am going to be denying this appeal, but will amend the note to include mentions of the issues you faced that lead up to that moment.

You are absolutely free to request Headmin Review. I don't reckon you chances of getting past them to be much better but the option is still there for you and there's really no reason to not use it if you still great issue with the note.
Nope22
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:21 am
Byond Username: Nope22

Re: [AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

Post by Nope22 » #648371

A second opinion from headmin Review might be the best outcome for both sides as I genuinely can not think of a way to reinforce it wasn't laid out as a bigoted attack and rather just as an insult, if they see it that way then it is what it is and that'll be that.
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AwkwardStereo
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:24 am
Byond Username: AwkwardStereo

Re: [AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

Post by AwkwardStereo » #648373

Headmins have been made aware.
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Timberpoes
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:54 pm
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Re: [AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

Post by Timberpoes » #648397

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Cond ... Guidelines
Rule 11 (Bigotry) Enforcement Guidelines

Bigotry - noun

big·​ot·​ry ∣ \ˈbi-gə-trē\

acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot


Bigot - noun

big·​ot ∣ \ˈbi-gət\

One who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


When deciding rather or not to enforce this rule on a player, as well as how severe of an enforcement, please consider the following questions:
  • Are they expressing hatred or intolerance toward a protected group (race, sex, gender, disability, orientation (note: both majorities and minorities count))?
  • How likely are they to know that their actions/words are expressing hatred or intolerance toward a protected group?
  • Assuming they read and remember the rules, how likely are they to make the connection that their conduct is not allowed? (Not all of our players come from first world country with a culture that places an emphasis on promoting tolerance and sensitivity)
  • Have they tried to previously claim instances were accidental references but they just keep accidentally being a bigot?
It's ok to give somebody a warning or a lighter punishment at first and crack down harder if they keep it up.

And finally, remember, the goal is to remove the 'expression' of bigotry from the community, not to establish a thought crime against bigots, they can feel how ever they want as long as they can keep it to themselves.
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules
11. Bigotry is not allowed
This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]".
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Mothblocks
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Re: [AwkwardStereo] Nope22 - Note appeal

Post by Mothblocks » #648398

this is completely consistent with rule 11 and how we have ruled for the past year, please do not direct slurs at people on our servers
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