[MSO] Don't ping admins over slurs on discord

[Somepan]

Character name: Niku#3260
Ban type: Muted on discord
Ban length: 2 days
Ban reason: "do not ping discord jannies without looking for context. slurs are not against the rules" MSO further justified his saying : "nobody should be just coming into a convo and making reports based off of a "first read" of a message or convo. if you weren't in the channel to see how or why it took off, then either read up or shut the fuck up"
Time ban was placed: 16:39 UTC 15/09/2022
Your side of the story: So, the ban refers to a report i made of discord user 687819287192273005 who goes by the handle "Biggrease" following me seeing this message https://imgur.com/a/ysluKK8 in which he is referring to transgender people as "tranny" I then called for admins to deal with him because i think that referring to groups by slurs is pretty much a violation of rule 11. I tried to look for context that would've justified that, there wasn't any, the reasons the topic was brought up was because of a meme about trans people that wasn't even offensive in anyway (at least to me).
Why you think you should be unbanned: Big grease was clearly using slurs in a bigoted way, he even stated after i pinged admins for the initial reason he stated https://imgur.com/a/mD8NE0o as a clear way to undermine trans people.
He also said in the original message i pinged admins for that "no trannie is ever going to be able to do that unless its an ftm" referring to a prior message of his stating that "I break jaws and steal teeth" https://imgur.com/a/BJNWlZ3 , i believed he fumbelled his labels when talking about FTMs because a few messages below said a transfem (noelle) could beat him up. https://imgur.com/a/0qNRCvN His train of thought can be shortened to this : Only AMAB (Assigned Male At Birth for the uninitiated in the room) could beat him up because they stay strong even after transitioning and AFAB people stay weak even after transitioning, which is a common trope used to undermine the effect of medical transition.

I think that what i shown her was enough to prove that he was being bigoted, which was obvious to me, when he used the word tranny, in which case me calling was justified then, and even if it wasn't, i believe that a 2d day mute over a ping for what seemed to be a legitimate break of the rule 11 is overzealous. Unless you were trying to make an example out of me, of course :)
If you have a rule that is supposed to act against people acting bigoted towards minorities, maybe don't mute people who make genuine reports about a potential violation of that rule.

PS: I just want to repeat it another time so it doesn't go unnoticed, the first message i read, and pinged for, was obviously transphobic to me, he addressed all trans people as "tranny", that was enough to me, if you don't consider that transphobic, okay, but please picture in your head how you would've reacted if it was the nword used to address black people, or faggot to address gay people in general. Even in the context in a joke, it's still bigoted.
PPS: Also MSO unwarned biggrease after muting me, just mentionning it in case that needs to be rectified and he was indeed being bigoted.

[MrStonedOne]

He also said in the original message i pinged admins for that "no trannie is ever going to be able to do that unless its an ftm" referring to a prior message of his stating that "I break jaws and steal teeth" https://imgur.com/a/BJNWlZ3 , i believed he fumbelled his labels when talking about FTMs

I don't.

it seems like they are implying that a women transitioning into a man could beat them up, which is an ally standpoint because it shows they aren't holding trannies to the biological stereotype of their dead gender.

Frankly both are equally possible and trying to play this "assume bad faith and read into somebody's messages, presuming typos and filling in the blanks to find bannable conduct" is flat out not acceptable at /tg/station.

The fact of the matter is, rather or not the message could have bigoted intents depends mostly on if you assume 1 initialism is a typo, but the message as written reads as a "they had us in the first half not gonna lie" style bait where they hold the transperson to the biological stereotype of their new gender instead of their egg gender.

Pinging discord jannies because you want to assume bad faith is not something that is gonna work out for you at /tg/station, assuming bad faith is against the rules:

[Somepan]

Just to be clear, calling trans people trannies isn't bigoted ? So we can refer to black people as the nword too ? Homosexuals as fags ?

[Somepan]

Also the FTM/MTF thing wasn't my main argument, it was just something else that pointed into the direction of him using the word tranny maliciously, but it wasn't the only reason that pointed to him being transphobic while using the word trannie.
Edit: Though i agree that assuming the worst here was indeed rulebreaky of me, but that's not what you muted me for.

[MrStonedOne]

Just to be clear, calling trans people trannies isn't bigoted ? So we can refer to black people as the nword too ? Homosexuals as fags ?

are you saying people do not regularly refer to black people as nigger or nigga without it being bigoted?

[Somepan]

While i believe the nword can be used in a non bigoted way, i think that most of the time it's uses is bigoted, i also think that it's hard to compare the use of that word when speaking about non bigoted uses because the nword has been partially reclaimed by black communities in america. However i have never seen someone who wasn't trans using the word tranny in a way that wasn't pejorative. Moreover, if you refer back to the context, he still said that a doctor couldn't regulate your hormones as well as your body, which is arguable, could be right or wrong, i'm no endocrinologist , but he clearly believed he was about to get banned and tried to use that as a way to undermine medical transition using HRT.
And even then, even if you get to decide what is bigoted or not, why do i get muted for 2 days for reporting a situation that to me, and to, i think, a lot of other people seemed like a genuine rulebreak ? Because i wasn't able to read your mind about what constitutes bigotry ?
If it was annyone else who did that mute i'm willing to bet a lot of people would be willing to argue against it.
Edit : Allow me to use an example, if someone in the street was walking around saying stuff about black people, referring to them as niggers, would you assume they were being racist or not.

[MrStonedOne]

While i believe the nword can be used in a non bigoted way, i think that most of the time it's uses is bigoted, i also think that it's hard to compare the use of that word when speaking about non bigoted uses because the nword has been partially reclaimed by black communities in america. However i have never seen someone who wasn't trans using the word tranny in a way that wasn't pejorative.

Arguing that rather or not somebody's usage of a word is bigoted is base on what demographics they themselves belong to, is not allowed and is in fact a form of bigotry, you will find yourself banned from the ban appeals forum for bigotry if you make this argument again.

[Somepan]

2 messages out of 3. In 2 of the 3 messages you've threatened me with ban or something else, congrats !
Anyway bigot, i don't want to argue with you for ages, I'm not willing to and it's not the place for it. I don't know how it works if headmins can give their opinion or not after you gave your final answer but, you clearly don't intend on unmuting me, so i'll kindly ask you to just, deny the appeal and save us the trouble of arguing.

[Somepan]

And by the way, you are making the argument that white people aren't more likely to be racist when using the nword, just saying, hope you are aware.

[Timberpoes]

There is no higher authority to appeal to other than the host.

That leads me as a lone headmin, refusing to go silently into the night as I take my final breaths before the new term takes over, to one conclusion: I'm still not prevented from commenting on this appeal as the headmin chosen by last term to represent them for the past 6 months.

On whether referring to trans people as trannies can be not-bigoted:
MSO is currently drawing the line where you can use the words tranny/trannie to refer to a trans person and that use will not be bigoted, as well as using the term nigger to refer to a black person and that use will not be bigoted, in his own inimitable way.

By comparison, the admin team as a whole currently approaches that line where a a slur or insult becomes bigoted much sooner.

are you saying people do not regularly refer to black people as nigger or nigga without it being bigoted?

I would argue, individually with my headmin peanut privilege before I finally get my ass demoted for insubordination this term ending in less than 24h, that the admin team would consider referring to a black person as either a nigger or calling them nigger to be bigoted universally. I would also say that calling another person a nigger in general would be considered contextually so indistuingishable from expression of bigotry as to almost immediately invoke admin action to a fairly similar level.

I assert that the team's currently applied approach is a continuation of work from previous headmin terms seeking to empower the admin team in ejecting those whom express bigotry from our community.

How MSO chose to resolve this appeal is policy-setting as a result, because it looks to overturn established norms for how in-game and Discord admins approach bigotry within the community.

On being banned for pinging DJs to report a post
I also ask MSO to be cautious punishing people that report suspected rule breaks when no rules were actually broken. The Discord Jannie role is opt-in and the team exists to answer Discord concerns and share knowledge about the rules and their enforcement in a non-adversarial way. It primarily operates through players trusting the role enough to ping it, especially when such pings are done publicly.

In general, the admin team only resorts to punishing people that report rule breaks when the reporter was intentionally duping the admin in question, twisting facts and "enhancing the truth" to misrepresent things. We avoid punishing players for not knowing the rules to an administrative minutiae of detail, because they do not have access to all the discussion, context and history that admins have access to in private channels.

Separating shitpost pings from genuine pings aside, of course. I personally do not believe this was a shitpost or bad faith ping. I will confidently state that many members of our Discord mod team would have spoken to, warned or timed out the reported user for the content they posted, in the context it was posted. I can do only what I can do: State to MSO thast I believe the timeout should be removed as a result, because it's holding players to a higher standard than our own moderator team.

[MrStonedOne]

The response I've gotten from the discord mod team and timber is enough to overturn this timeout.

[Vekter]

Just to be clear, calling trans people trannies isn't bigoted ? So we can refer to black people as the nword too ? Homosexuals as fags ?

I am not trans, but I feel it's very important to note that literally every trans person I have ever met would punch someone for referring to trans people as trannies.