[Cheshify] JupiterJaeden - Banned for committing suicide on a round that was bugged as fuck

[JupiterJaeden]

BYOND account: jupiterjaeden
Character name: Jeff Gaiman
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 12 hours
Ban reason: (OOC) "Vekter we are restarting because the firelocks are broken as fuck"<br> Participated and encouraged mass suicides because of firelocks being down. - Sabotaging the round.
Time ban was placed: 2023-01-20 20:22:50
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 198593
Your side of the story: So, a little bit of context. On the round in question, it seemed that a ton (I would say definitely most) of the firelocks on the station were broken somehow. They were triggering for no reason, and trying to turn the fire alarms off seemed to not be working (they would just re-trigger again in a few moments). A restart vote was placed, which PASSED 16-14. That's the first time I've seen a restart vote pass in a LONG time. Vekter (the only other admin online at the time) decided to unilaterally veto the restart vote, the reason given in OOC chat was "Zero reason to restart 10 minutes into the round because you didn't get fucking antag." Vekter was of course mocked extensively after this in OOC chat (by me as well) since it was very silly to assume 16 players wanted to leave because of antag rolling and not because of the game being bugged. We then continued talking about it in OOC chat and dchat. OOC chat was muted, and then I got deadchat muted, and then without any warning I got banned. The shuttle was called as soon as it was able to and then the round ended anyways. But apparently I "sabotaged" the round by, uh, not wanting to play the game when it was bugged, like the majority of the other players in the round.

Now, I will admit I was being kind of belligerent in OOC chat and dead chat, but the reason was that I was (I think understandably) pissed off that the admins had just decided to unilaterally overrule the majority who wanted to end the round because of it being bugged, and then posting stupid obviously false reasons like "you guys are just antag rolling."
Why you think you should be unbanned: If the ban was for IC in OOC that would at least make a little sense (although I would still say unjustified given the context) but "SABOTAGING THE ROUND"? First of all, I didn't encourage any mass suicide. I participated, yes, did not encourage. I gave one other guy a laser gun (in the armory) who was going to commit suicide anyways. That was it. And I did not """"sabotage"""" the round when the MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS already wanted to leave.
References of good conduct: I have absolutely no history of encouraging any kind of mass suicide. This is not a repeated offense in any way. In the context I don't even think it's an offense at all, because I did not do it.
Anything else we should know: I know there is no chance of this getting appealed before it just expires, but I want it struck from my record. Absolutely ridiculous ban.

[Cheshify]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=26764&p=566769

We have a precedent for this kind of behavior, and as the headmin at the time said "Mob mentality does not excuse breaking the rules". I'm not Vekter, I don't control what he says, I just came onto the server to see people suiciding en-masse for a petty reason and screeching in OOC/Deadchat.

[Vekter]

Vekter (the only other admin online at the time) decided to unilaterally veto the restart vote

I did no such thing, the game automatically refuses to reboot the round if an admin is on and I chose not to reboot it. If you really feel like my behavior was unacceptable, open a complaint.

[JupiterJaeden]

Vekter (the only other admin online at the time) decided to unilaterally veto the restart vote

I did no such thing, the game automatically refuses to reboot the round if an admin is on and I chose not to reboot it. If you really feel like my behavior was unacceptable, open a complaint.

"choosing not to reboot it" when the vote passed is the same as vetoing it. This is pure semantics.

[JupiterJaeden]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=26764&p=566769

We have a precedent for this kind of behavior, and as the headmin at the time said "Mob mentality does not excuse breaking the rules". I'm not Vekter, I don't control what he says, I just came onto the server to see people suiciding en-masse for a petty reason and screeching in OOC/Deadchat.

The problem is that I did not encourage mass suicide at all. People individually decided they wanted to suicide (including me) because they didn't want to play a bugged round, something that was also made abundantly clear by the restart vote that passed. So the claim that I, personally, sabotaged the round somehow is just false.

[Cheshify]

I'll be posting an in-depth response in a while.

[JupiterJaeden]

I do want to note that the only IC in OOC violation I may have committed is simply explaining to Vekter the actual reason we were doing the restart vote, when they made the baseless accusations of antag rolling. The reason I did this in OOC is because 1) that is where Vekter made their own statement about the restart vote so it was natural to respond there, and 2) I usually think of votes in general as an OOC thing. The only round-related information I gave away in OOC is the fact that the firelocks were broken, something I am almost 100% sure that every single player on the round knew.

In fact, there is plenty of precedent for people discussing bugs happening in the game in OOC chat. For example that one time when TGUI broke for most of the players on the round, it was discussed and some solutions were eventually discovered in OOC chat. I could pull up the round log for that one if necessary, but no bans were issued because it was a very reasonable thing to be discussing in OOC chat.

All that said: I am not appealing a theoretical IC in OOC ban. I am appealing a ban for "sabotaging the round", something which it is completely baseless to accuse me of doing. I would just like to pre-emptively make this statement in case the accusation of "IC in OOC" against me does come up.

[Cheshify]

Logs taken from https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... nd-198593/

I'm going to look at this from a few angles, based on my own observations and on what I believe could be a more suitable, amenable note. I'll try to keep things short and avoid text walls.

Firstly, discussing what you've said.

So, a little bit of context. On the round in question, it seemed that a ton (I would say definitely most) of the firelocks on the station were broken somehow. They were triggering for no reason, and trying to turn the fire alarms off seemed to not be working (they would just re-trigger again in a few moments). A restart vote was placed, which PASSED 16-14. That's the first time I've seen a restart vote pass in a LONG time. Vekter (the only other admin online at the time) decided to unilaterally veto the restart vote, the reason given in OOC chat was "Zero reason to restart 10 minutes into the round because you didn't get fucking antag." Vekter was of course mocked extensively after this in OOC chat (by me as well) since it was very silly to assume 16 players wanted to leave because of antag rolling and not because of the game being bugged. We then continued talking about it in OOC chat and dchat. OOC chat was muted, and then I got deadchat muted, and then without any warning I got banned. The shuttle was called as soon as it was able to and then the round ended anyways. But apparently I "sabotaged" the round by, uh, not wanting to play the game when it was bugged, like the majority of the other players in the round.

As Vekter has pointed out, we don't cancel restart votes, the game auto-cancels them. Admins hopped onto the server seeing some sort of issue, and we found that there was a mass suicide, the blatant disregard of rule 3 (Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel.), and extensive harassment towards Vekter in OOC.

[2023-01-20 20:10:05.148] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "it has nothing to do witha ntag rolling you dipshit" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))

The discussion here is not if Vekter did something wrong, so we'll focus on my experience. I'm in a position where I need to mute OOC to prevent further cases of IC in OOC, then, the salt immediately moves to deadchat. You were not banned without warning, as I did open a ticket with you asking for you to chill out. Only later muting you after you continued salting in deadchat.

[2023-01-20 20:17:58.202] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Cheshify/(Cera Beruse)->JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman): We're looking into things, please chill the heck out.
[2023-01-20 20:17:45.782] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "good captain is callin git" (Bridge (151,141,2))
[2023-01-20 20:19:11.918] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "the game is clearly bugged to hell and the vote to restart LITERALLY PASSED and the admins just said &#34;no&#34;" (Bridge (154,140,2))
[2023-01-20 20:19:16.739] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "lame as hell" (Fore Primary Hallway (132,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:19:35.274] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "to put this in context, I literallly cannot remember the last time a restart vote actually passed" (Fore Primary Hallway (133,161,2))
[2023-01-20 20:20:11.166] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "welcome nancy" (Bridge (149,141,2))
[2023-01-20 20:20:16.803] ADMIN: Cheshify/(Cera Beruse) has muted jupiterjaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) from deadchat and DSAY

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Now, I will admit I was being kind of belligerent in OOC chat and dead chat, but the reason was that I was (I think understandably) pissed off that the admins had just decided to unilaterally overrule the majority who wanted to end the round because of it being bugged, and then posting stupid obviously false reasons like "you guys are just antag rolling."

Again, admins don't cancel restart votes manually, they don't go through if we're on (I imagine to prevent players from restarting while an admin is doing something). Jupiter, please try to remember that admins are just volunteers trying their best to make the game fun for everyone, being belligerent doesn't help and it just stresses the people who are trying to fix things out. Toxicity is not, and never will be a valid way to get what you want done.

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If the ban was for IC in OOC that would at least make a little sense (although I would still say unjustified given the context) but "SABOTAGING THE ROUND"? First of all, I didn't encourage any mass suicide. I participated, yes, did not encourage. I gave one other guy a laser gun (in the armory) who was going to commit suicide anyways. That was it. And I did not """"sabotage"""" the round when the MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS already wanted to leave.

I'd be happy to add more context to your ban reasoning, though I would like to discuss "sabotaging the round." As the Head of Security, you have a pretty substantial effect on the round and how people react to events. Instead of taking things in stride, you chose to advocate for and discuss a planned suicide in IC and over common.

[2023-01-20 20:04:13.300] TCOMMS: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) [Common] (spans: command_headset ) "If these firelocks don&#39;t get fixed, I am going to commit suicide" (language: Galactic Common) (Brig (200,132,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:42.548] TCOMMS: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) [Common] (spans: command_headset ) "One of my secoffs has already committed suicide" (language: Galactic Common) (Armory (209,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:48.166] TCOMMS: T3hSurge/(Slippo) [Common] (spans: clown ) "I&#39;m joining the suicide pile near hopline, who&#39;s with me?" (language: Galactic Common) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,129,2)) // inviting people
[2023-01-20 20:07:55.134] TCOMMS: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) [Common] (spans: command_headset ) "Yea I will come slippo" (language: Galactic Common) (Brig (200,129,2))
[2023-01-20 20:08:16.545] TCOMMS: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) [Common] (spans: command_headset ) "I&#39;m going for egun suicide" (language: Galactic Common) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (157,148,2))
[2023-01-20 20:08:32.485] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (job: Head of Security) committed suicide (Fore Central Primary Hallway (133,129,2))
[2023-01-20 20:08:38.918] ATTACK: T3hSurge/(Slippo) (job: Clown) committed suicide (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,129,2))

Both in-front of the HOP office as a planned event where you'd kill yourselves, others would follow your example and die in the same area. You had a measure of influence over the round, and you chose to use it to rage-quit because of an inconvenience. Additionally, we even have a ruling on roundstart suicide as a head of staff.

Roundstart suicide Don't do it as an important role, and if it happens too often, you can be banned. May 04, 2015 KorPhaeron
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3536#p85722

Using a head of staff position to openly agree to a mass-suicide is influencing the round, and you chose to do so in a public area while saying you would over comms. You participated in and worsened an existing issue, hence why I believe your actions did sabotage the round.

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Alright, IC in OOC and OOC in IC. I left this out of your ban reasoning, and I'd be willing to update your note to include this.

[2023-01-20 20:05:36.307] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "YES" (Security Locker Room (204,125,2))
[2023-01-20 20:05:37.668] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "DO IT" (Security Locker Room (204,125,2))
[2023-01-20 20:05:41.612] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "shit is broke" (Security Locker Room (204,125,2))
[2023-01-20 20:06:00.665] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "RESTART THE DAMN SERVER, SHIT IS BROKE" (Security Locker Room (204,125,2))
[2023-01-20 20:09:57.899] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "Vekter we are restarting because the firelocks are broken as fuck" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:10:05.148] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "it has nothing to do witha ntag rolling you dipshit" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:10:15.497] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "VEKTER WE TRIEDD" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:10:17.575] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "IT IS BROKEN" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:10:39.678] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "WE ARE GETTING 1984&#39;D" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:10:41.488] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "LET US RESTART" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:11:13.592] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "the vote literally already passed once" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:11:14.921] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "vote again" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:11:49.754] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "Vote literally already passed once" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (167,148,2))
[2023-01-20 20:12:52.018] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "Vekter the fire alarms were NOT working for regular crew" (Bridge (150,139,2))
[2023-01-20 20:12:53.951] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "maybe admins can fix it" (Bridge (150,139,2))
[2023-01-20 20:13:02.373] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "but it wasn&#39;t working for the rest of us" (Bridge (147,143,2))
[2023-01-20 20:13:24.862] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "yea admins bad pretty much" (Bridge (151,143,2))
[2023-01-20 20:13:38.178] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "if it were a station quirk is would be even worse" (Fore Primary Hallway (131,153,2))
[2023-01-20 20:13:41.800] OOC: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "why would you make that a quirk" (Fore Primary Hallway (131,153,2))

Here are your OOC logs for the round, where you openly petition for people to continue making restart votes even while admins are online. You also discuss ongoing round events (the firelocks) and continue to be belligerent towards volunteer staff.

[2023-01-20 20:08:52.753] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "ADMINS THE RESTART VOTE PASSED" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:08:54.079] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "RESTART IT!!" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:09:02.892] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "it is" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:12:34.581] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "do it chip" (Bridge (150,138,2))
[2023-01-20 20:12:37.090] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "DO IT" (Bridge (150,139,2))
[2023-01-20 20:13:47.155] ADMIN: Cheshify/(Cera Beruse) toggled OOC.
[2023-01-20 20:14:04.917] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "literally" (Bridge (150,140,2))
[2023-01-20 20:14:09.332] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "so stupid" (Bridge (150,142,2))
[2023-01-20 20:14:13.331] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "our restart vote the first one literally passed" (Bridge (150,142,2))
[2023-01-20 20:14:26.339] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "Admins really thought that 16 people wanted to restart because muh antag rolling" (Bridge (150,139,2))
[2023-01-20 20:14:28.988] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "fucking morons" (Bridge (150,139,2))
[2023-01-20 20:14:38.132] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "I did irene" (Bridge (152,141,2))
[2023-01-20 20:14:43.897] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "but the first one literally passed" (Bridge (153,140,2))
[2023-01-20 20:15:24.843] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "I hope captain just calls the shuttle" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,143,2))
[2023-01-20 20:15:28.160] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "watch them recall it" (Bridge (149,138,2))
[2023-01-20 20:15:43.645] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "I hope so" (Bridge (148,144,2))
[2023-01-20 20:16:04.230] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "well I&#39;m gonna go play lichess" (Bridge (150,142,2))
[2023-01-20 20:16:06.541] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "lol" (Bridge (141,142,2))
[2023-01-20 20:16:54.853] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "HOLY FUCKING SHIT ADMINS" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,137,2))
[2023-01-20 20:16:56.883] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "WHAT IS YOUR ISSUE" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,137,2))
[2023-01-20 20:17:33.062] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "because they&#39;re stupid" (Bar Maintenance (150,152,2))
[2023-01-20 20:17:35.235] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "I assume" (Bar Maintenance (150,160,2))
[2023-01-20 20:17:37.962] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "can&#39;t think of another one" (Bar Maintenance (150,160,2))
[2023-01-20 20:17:45.782] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "good captain is callin git" (Bridge (151,141,2))
[2023-01-20 20:19:11.918] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "the game is clearly bugged to hell and the vote to restart LITERALLY PASSED and the admins just said &#34;no&#34;" (Bridge (154,140,2))
[2023-01-20 20:19:16.739] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "lame as hell" (Fore Primary Hallway (132,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:19:35.274] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "to put this in context, I literallly cannot remember the last time a restart vote actually passed" (Fore Primary Hallway (133,161,2))
[2023-01-20 20:20:11.166] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (DEAD) "welcome nancy" (Bridge (149,141,2))

And your deadchat logs, with the time I muted OOC added in when it happened. I feel this is relevant to explain why I muted you from deadchat. Even after OOC was shut off you continued to harass staff.

[2023-01-20 20:03:13.977] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "what" (Brig Control (203,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:03:16.861] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "I&#39;m busy" (Brig Control (205,128,2))
[2023-01-20 20:03:54.820] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "GUH" (Starboard Primary Hallway (192,131,2))
[2023-01-20 20:04:01.654] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "SHIT BROKE" (Starboard Primary Hallway (190,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:04:13.269] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "If these firelocks don&#39;t get fixed, I am going to commit suicide" (Brig (200,132,2))
[2023-01-20 20:04:25.671] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "OI" (Security Office (207,149,2))
[2023-01-20 20:04:26.389] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "HEY" (Security Office (207,149,2))
[2023-01-20 20:04:35.920] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "YOU ATE 4??" (Security Office (207,151,2))
[2023-01-20 20:05:09.079] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "You disgust me" (Security Office (208,147,2))
[2023-01-20 20:05:19.805] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "BASTARD" (Security Office (205,148,2))
[2023-01-20 20:06:51.751] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "what for" (Security Locker Room (205,124,2))
[2023-01-20 20:06:56.438] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "oh" (Security Locker Room (205,125,2))
[2023-01-20 20:06:56.936] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "yes" (Security Locker Room (205,125,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:05.980] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "here" (Armory (208,129,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:06.926] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "use this" (Armory (208,129,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:20.068] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "in the chat bar at the bottom right of your screen" (Armory (209,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:21.942] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "type suicide" (Armory (209,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:26.957] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "not like talking" (Armory (209,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:31.618] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "it&#39;s a different little" (Armory (209,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:32.822] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "there ya go" (Armory (209,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:42.517] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "One of my secoffs has already committed suicide" (Armory (209,130,2))
[2023-01-20 20:07:55.102] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "Yea I will come slippo" (Brig (200,129,2))
[2023-01-20 20:08:16.515] SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "I&#39;m going for egun suicide" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (157,148,2))

And your IC logs, where you used OOC concepts to teach people how to kill themselves; which isn't a rule break necessarily, but still relevant information.

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If the ban was for IC in OOC that would at least make a little sense (although I would still say unjustified given the context) but "SABOTAGING THE ROUND"? First of all, I didn't encourage any mass suicide. I participated, yes, did not encourage. I gave one other guy a laser gun (in the armory) who was going to commit suicide anyways. That was it. And I did not """"sabotage"""" the round when the MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS already wanted to leave.

I said it in-round, an annoying bug doesn't justify IC in OOC, just as being annoyed does not justify toxicity.

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References of good conduct: I have absolutely no history of encouraging any kind of mass suicide. This is not a repeated offense in any way. In the context I don't even think it's an offense at all, because I did not do it.

Not having a history of breaking a rule doesn't give you immunity to being punished for breaking a rule. Notes and bans exist to create that history. I believe I've said what I've needed to about "sabotaging a round" earlier, as well.

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A direct removal of this note/ban from me is denied, though I would be open to discussing a rewording of the note to better reflect the situation.

[JupiterJaeden]

Firstly, I'm requesting headmin review on this decision.

Now, to respond to what you've said:

As Vekter has pointed out, we don't cancel restart votes, the game auto-cancels them.

Not approving something that passed (i.e. a veto) vs. hitting the cancel button is functionally identical. But I'm not going to spend too long on what Vekter did as it is not that relevant to my ban reason. However I will discuss it simply to explain my behavior in OOC and dead chat.

Now, I already responded extensively to the accusation of IC in OOC with a separate post in this thread, which I am not going to re-hash. To quickly re-summarize: I only ever discussed the bug in direct response to Vekter's false accusation of antag rolling in OOC chat (to point out the actual explanation for WHY we wanted a restart vote), and there is already precedent for discussing bugs in OOC chat.

As for the "harassment" of Vekter in OOC chat, think I was understandably upset that the majority decision of the server had been overruled by someone who then accused us completely baselessly of wanted to antag roll, and seemed to be totally ignoring the actual issue that was messing up the round. Whatever toxicity I was displaying was only in response to Vekter's own attitude. For example:

08:05:48 OOC Vekter/(Vekter) "that's not what restart votes are for" (8, 248, 1) start area
08:09:36 OOC Vekter/(Pleiades IX) "Quit with the fucking restart vote" (140, 143, 2) Space
08:09:45 OOC Vekter/(Pleiades IX) "Zero reason to restart 10 minutes into the round because you didn't get fucking antag" (140, 143, 2) Space
08:09:57 OOC JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "Vekter we are restarting because the firelocks are broken as fuck" (134, 131, 2) Fore Central Primary Hallway
08:10:10 OOC Vekter/(Pleiades IX) "CLICK THE FUCKING FIRE ALARM" (140, 143, 2) Space
08:10:15 OOC JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) "VEKTER WE TRIEDD" (134, 131, 2) Fore Central Primary Hallway
08:10:16 OOC DevinXoptoh/(Chip Shafer) "it dxoesnt work vekter" (149, 142, 2) Bridge
08:10:17 OOC Ggefg/(Erebus Heretak) "IT DOESNT WORK VEKTER" (118, 102, 2) Experimentation Lab

Another example where Vekter just completely dismisses the issue:

08:27:57 SAY Vekter/(Pleiades IX) (DEAD) "No" (178, 114, 2) Aft Central Primary Hallway
08:28:24 SAY Vekter/(Pleiades IX) (DEAD) "It's not that bad" (178, 114, 2) Aft Central Primary Hallway
08:28:28 SAY Vekter/(Pleiades IX) (DEAD) "Quite complaining about nothing" (178, 114, 2) Aft Central Primary Hallway

So, was I salting at Vekter a bit? Yes. However this was mainly in response to Vekter's own dismissal of the issue.

Now, let's talk about the Rule 5 issue, with me being the Head of Security.
First of all, the fact you applied similar bans to others (and the fact that my role is mentioned nowhere within my ban reason) means that I don't think at the time you were putting this ban in rule 5 was on your mind at all. I think this is purely retroactive.

That said, here is what is stated under the Rule 5 Precedents:

Minimum levels of effort for heads of staff, silicon roles, and team antagonist generally include not logging out/going AFK at or near round start due to the importance of those roles within the round for progression. Constant logging out or going AFK may be given warnings by admins, and may progress to jobbans.

A couple things to point out here. First of all, it's my understanding this is supposed to be punished by a jobban, not a server ban. It's also my understanding that this rule is meant for repeated offenses, not doing it once in a round with exceptional circumstances. And finally, I'd like to specifically point out the part where this says, "due to the importance of those roles within the round for progression." But I think it was abundantly clear that this round would not have normal progression. The majority of the crew already wanted to leave, several of my seccies had already suicided, I was not in command of anything.

Instead of taking things in stride, you chose to advocate for and discuss a planned suicide in IC and over common.

I discussed it, sure. But I did not advocate for it or (IMPORANTLY) use my influence as Head of Security at all. I didn't say, "hey security, let's all go commit suicide here". I just wanted to restart the round, did not really want to participate in it anymore, and when the clown brought it up I thought that suiciding to exit it would be a little funny. It was not, as you put it, a "rage quit". Tell me, would this ban have been different if I had decided to simply silently ghost in the brig instead of suiciding?? If the answer is "yes", then what is the functional difference??

Another note here, just for my clown friend. Although I personally did NOT call for mass suicide AT ALL, where exactly in the rules does "encouraging mass suicide" fall under? What general rule or MRP rule is this in violation of? Most of the time these calls will simply be ignored, but if the situation is bad enough that people do want to end their participation in the round anyways, why is this an issue at all?

Jupiter, please try to remember that admins are just volunteers trying their best to make the game fun for everyone.

Actually let's touch on this as well. How does banning people for suiciding in a bugged out round make the game fun for everyone? Particularly in the case where the majority of players, i.e. the bigger part of "everyone", WANTS the round to restart anyways. How does banning me, or anyone else for this, help achieve this goal whatsoever?

Now, just gonna quickly respond to a few of the remaining things you stated here.

...where you openly petition for people to continue making restart votes even while admins are online.

Since when has this been against the rules as well?

And your deadchat logs, with the time I muted OOC added in when it happened. I feel this is relevant to explain why I muted you from deadchat. Even after OOC was shut off you continued to harass staff.

I'm not contesting the deadchat mute as particularly unfair. I was kind of angry at the admins (not really you but mostly Vekter) at their handling of the situation and I was being somewhat toxic. I'm gonna say that I think Vekter started it with their dismissive attitude, but that does not mean allowing it to continue was a good idea.

And your IC logs, where you used OOC concepts to teach people how to kill themselves; which isn't a rule break necessarily, but still relevant information.

As you kind of pointed out yourself, there is a very explicit exemption to OOC in IC rules for teaching people things, made necessary by the lack of LOOC on the server.
From the text for rule 3:

Do not say OOC things in IC either. There is an exception for OOC in IC where terms like 'clickdrag X to Y, or look for the tab' is used to help a player.

And finally:

Not having a history of breaking a rule doesn't give you immunity to being punished for breaking a rule.

Hence why I put that under the "references of good conduct" section and not the "why I should be unbanned" section.

[t3hSurge]

Admins hopped onto the server seeing some sort of issue, and we found that there was a mass suicide, the blatant disregard of rule 3 (Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel.), and extensive harassment towards Vekter in OOC.

The round started broken. Nobody was IC. We were collectively as a server trying to restart. Everyone was "IC/OOC", and the harassment was at the very least two-sided. I dunno what set Vekter off but they were very rude and inflammatory in chat.

[... Snipped by Timberpoes, peanut ...]

admins are just volunteers trying their best to make the game fun for everyone

This is not what Vekter was doing this round. There was no reason to play a round half the playerbase had suicided in and the map was broken. He got mad half the server suicided and wanted to restart. It's as if he made a snap judgement at first and dug their heels in.

Both in-front of the HOP office as a planned event where you'd kill yourselves, others would follow your example and die in the same area. You had a measure of influence over the round, and you chose to use it to rage-quit because of an inconvenience. Additionally, we even have a ruling on roundstart suicide as a head of staff.

I believe that rule applies to repeated offenders, not a one-off under extenuating circumstances.

Alright, IC in OOC and OOC in IC. I left this out of your ban reasoning, and I'd be willing to update your note to include this.

I suppose quoting an individual here does look bad, but it absolutely wasn't in the context of all chat. Dozens were talking about the firelock issues in OOC.

just as being annoyed does not justify toxicity.

If you're going to claim toxicity at least share some of that back and forth between vekter and dchat.

Not having a history of breaking a rule doesn't give you immunity to being punished for breaking a rule. Notes and bans exist to create that history. I believe I've said what I've needed to about "sabotaging a round" earlier, as well.

Context matters. They nor myself intentionally broke rules, damaged the round, or was a dick. The map broke, I made a joke about mass suicide and people started doing it. You claim Jeff and I chose the hopline to "make a statement", but in reality I walked out of theatre and there were two suicides there already, and Jeff showed up, so we both suicided.

I probably shouldn't have even participated in this ban appeal, but at least I said my piece. This isn't about Jeff being HoS, or ICK OCK, or suicide. This thread is just justification for a snap decision. These should absolutely be walked back. I've already invested a lot of time into something with little to no return, so I'll end my post.

[Cheshify]

Another example where Vekter just completely dismisses the issue:

I'll get to what you said later but for the first third of your argument:

I am not Vekter
I do not control Vekter
If you think Vekter made a mistake please handle that with Vekter

[Timberpoes]

- Snip -

While you were an involved party in the incidents and shift in general and are able to post first-hand experiences without it falling too far into the realms of peanut, I moved your ban appeal post out to its own topic at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33171

In the interests of this not turning into a pointless back-and-forth where you hash out a lot of your own appeal's arguments here, I think your points would be better received in your own appeal.

[JupiterJaeden]

Another example where Vekter just completely dismisses the issue:

I'll get to what you said later but for the first third of your argument:

I am not Vekter
I do not control Vekter
If you think Vekter made a mistake please handle that with Vekter

Yes, as I stated earlier: "But I'm not going to spend too long on what Vekter did as it is not that relevant to my ban reason. However I will discuss it simply to explain my behavior in OOC and dead chat."

The purpose of me discussing Vekter is solely to explain my own behavior which you cited.

[Cheshify]

Alright let's crack open the issue that I believe is most pressing.
1. Sabotaging the Round. You've made some good points, and I wish we had time to speak within a ticket during the round if you had responded to me. I'm comfortable with removing this from the note.
2. IC in OOC. In your case, you've definitely discussed the round OOCly when staff were present and trying to fix the issue. There's no excuse for this, even groups of people.
3. Salting - I'll stand by not having control over Vekter, but that's a separate issue.

Here's the deal, upon reviewing what you've posted, I'm willing to reduce this to a note just for participating in the mass-suicide, which is a generally lame-as-hell way to go about protesting a minor error before staff are even capable of fixing things.

[JupiterJaeden]

Okay, sure.

One thing I do want to note though is that I never used the fact that there were a bunch of people doing IC in OOC as a justification, since you are correct, that is not a justification. My justification was instead that the scope of what I discussed in OOC was very limited, and only used in direct response to two of Vekter's statements: their false statement about the players' reason for wanting a restart vote, and their statement that we could "just click the fire alarms" (both of which were also made in OOC chat).

EDIT: I will admit that waiting for staff to try and fix it before suiciding would have probably been a good idea. However, I was under the impression that the round would restart soon.

[Cheshify]

Okay, sure.

One thing I do want to note though is that I never used the fact that there were a bunch of people doing IC in OOC as a justification, since you are correct, that is not a justification. My justification was instead that the scope of what I discussed in OOC was very limited, and only used in direct response to two of Vekter's statements: their false statement about the players' reason for wanting a restart vote, and their statement that we could "just click the fire alarms" (both of which were also made in OOC chat).

I'm aware now that the discussion had turned to IC in OOC long before I joined the server, with an admin also discussing things.

[Cheshify]

How does this sound:
"During a round where firelocks were closing on their own accord due to a code error, JupiterJaeden, the HOS at the time, chose to participate in a mass suicide."
Do you think that's fair?

[JupiterJaeden]

That is a factual description of what happened. What severity are you going to apply on it though?

[Cheshify]

That is a factual description of what happened. What severity are you going to apply on it though?

Minor?

[JupiterJaeden]

Okay. 100% fine with me, in the future I will at the least wait for staff to try and fix an issue like this before suiciding.

[Cheshify]

Unbanned, welcome back.

[spookuni]

Our response to this was heavily delayed by some scheduling issues, we apologise for this.
We've decided to repeal the notes applied in the two tickets related to this incident. While there was precedent set previously for noting people for mass suicide pacts, the primary justification for those bans was the large amount of IC in OOC (targeted at a specific player) going on alongside them, an element that is missing here. We do not believe admins should be forcing rounds broken by code issues to remain as they are, and do not believe players should or must remain in broken roundstates if they wish to exit - repetitively suiciding at roundstart as a pattern of behaviour is against the rules (due to it being either antag rolling, or indistinguishable from antag rolling), leaving a round you no long wish to be a part of for legitimate reasons is not.

Spook: Overturn
Rave: Overturn
San: Overturn