[Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic uwu

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[Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic uwu

Post by t3hSurge » #662415

Can I piggyback? I got essentially the same ban.

BYOND account: t3hsurge
Character name: Slippo
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 720 minutes
Ban reason: "who's up for ritual mass suicide?"<br> (OOC) "this is the admeme equivelent of asking why call when you're buried deep in a department while the station is on fire"br> Participating in and encouraging ick-ock and a mass suicide because firelocks are down.
Time ban was placed: 2023-01-20 20:26:55
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 198593
Your side of the story: « Fill this in on your own! »
Why you think you should be unbanned:
I didn't engage in any more or less ICK OCK than the rest of the server did. We spawned into the map being broken and everyone was talking about the restart vote. At the very beginning of the round I did suggest "mass ritual suicide" over common, as the clown I was kidding but people started killing themselves.

The real disappointing bit here to me isn't a 12 hour ban, but what happened after I joined in on suiciding. Someone started a restart vote which passed. Because Vekter was on, it didn't automatically restart. People started complaining in dchat and OOC about the map malfunction and failure to restart, myself included. Vekter was absolutely livid at people in dchat, accusing people of wanting to antag roll or later just not knowing how to reset a fire alarm. In retrospect I should have maybe stopped talking when the admin started having a little meltdown in dchat. OOC was muted, and after some time I was bwoinked by chesh about inciting mass suicide and ICK OCK. While typing a reply to them to understand the situation better I was banned. It's very unusual to step into grey area, or have circumstances that do, and have an admin interaction that's so one-sided on TG.

References of good conduct: I have a relatively good record with 1000+ hours on mostly Manuel
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Re: [Cheshify] JupiterJaeden - Banned for committing suicide on a round that was bugged as fuck

Post by Cheshify » #662430

t3hSurge wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:36 pm Can I piggyback? I got essentially the same ban.
Please make your own thread
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Timberpoes » #662433

It was about as much effort to split this out into a new thread as it was to delete it, so here you go.

Feel free to edit the OP and/or title as desired.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by t3hSurge » #662438

ah well rules stated I could post in threads if it's relevant

everything relevant to this appeal is in the other thread, and peeling me away from that context marginalizes my contributions to an ongoing discussion
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Timberpoes » #662441

We do not expect admins to handle multiple players appealing the same ban in the same thread. It turns things into a chaotic and unorganised shitshow and wastes everyone's time.

Such shitshows often fall on forum admins to clean up, especially the headmins that often have to parse through reams of crap to figure out who said what, to whom, and why.

While a lot of your points will be relevant in both appeals, it's important you appeal your own ban in its own thread since the facts around why you were banned differ materially from JupiterJaeden's ban even though they arose from the same scenario.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by t3hSurge » #662442

I didn't:

-Get to reply to my bwoink before banning
-IC/OOC any more than the rest of the entire server during a bug

I did:

-Jokingly call for "mass suicide" IC roundstart when it became apparent firelocks were down everywhere.
-Kill myself

What is my crime?
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662443

I didn't engage in any more or less ICK OCK than the rest of the server did.
Mob mentality isn't an excuse for breaking the rules.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We spawned into the map being broken and everyone was talking about the restart vote. At the very beginning of the round I did suggest "mass ritual suicide" over common, as the clown I was kidding but people started killing themselves.
"It was a joke" doesn't apply if you genuinely go through with creating a mass ritual suicide in-front of the HOPline.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The real disappointing bit here to me isn't a 12 hour ban, but what happened after I joined in on suiciding. Someone started a restart vote which passed. Because Vekter was on, it didn't automatically restart. People started complaining in dchat and OOC about the map malfunction and failure to restart, myself included. Vekter was absolutely livid at people in dchat, accusing people of wanting to antag roll or later just not knowing how to reset a fire alarm. In retrospect I should have maybe stopped talking when the admin started having a little meltdown in dchat..
I am not Vekter, I don't control what Vekter says. If you have an issue with Vekter's actions you're free to discuss that with him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OOC was muted, and after some time I was bwoinked by chesh about inciting mass suicide and ICK OCK.
OOC was toxic, I shut it up to prevent more cases of IC in OOC.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While typing a reply to them to understand the situation better I was banned. It's very unusual to step into grey area, or have circumstances that do, and have an admin interaction that's so one-sided on TG
I gave you two minutes between the ahelp and the ban, which may not have been enough time. However, I was presented with some pretty damning evidence of you arranging and participating in the suicide.
[2023-01-20 20:02:55.822] SAY: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "I&#39;m going to stay in my room until the annoying alarms turn off!!" (Theater (147,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:03:20.906] SAY: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "who&#39;s up for ritual mass suicide?" (Theater (147,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:08:38.918] ATTACK: T3hSurge/(Slippo) (job: Clown) committed suicide (Fore Central Primary Hallway (134,129,2))
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662444

As an addition to my last post. If you want to give me more context, this is a good place to do so.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by t3hSurge » #662445

I didn't create a mass suicide in front of the hopline, I made a joke about it, it happened, and I joined the pile.

You've given so much justification for your actions, but it's all so nebulous. What rule did I break? You can't seriously lean on IC/OOC in a broken round. There is plenty of precedent for talking about the current round in OOC when things break. Did you give half the server 12-hour bans? No, I and HoS were specifically targeted because we were the most vocal about the restart.

It makes me sad that all this time should be spent on pointing fingers when you could walk this wrist-slap BS for nothing away. Would have been better if you had just talked to me IG.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662446

t3hSurge wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:07 am I didn't create a mass suicide in front of the hopline, I made a joke about it, it happened, and I joined the pile.

You've given so much justification for your actions, but it's all so nebulous. What rule did I break? You can't seriously lean on IC/OOC in a broken round. There is plenty of precedent for talking about the current round in OOC when things break. Did you give half the server 12-hour bans? No, I and HoS were specifically targeted because we were the most vocal about the restart.

It makes me sad that all this time should be spent on pointing fingers when you could walk this wrist-slap BS for nothing away. Would have been better if you had just talked to me IG.
Yes, I've given justifications for my actions because that's the purpose of these appeals. All I really get from this appeal is that "it was just a joke" and "you shouldn't have banned me". I gave two people a break from the game when they were the driving elements in starting a mass suicide in the hopline, and were then toxic about it oocly when Vekter hopped on. Rule 2 (IC in OOC) doesn't stop applying when things break down, and this issue was so incredibly minor (firelocks were down) that no chance was even given to admins to try to fix things before the suicide pact was made and the screaming began in OOC.

I'm happy to talk about this if you'll just explain why you chose to suggest and then later participate in a mass suicide, and then decide that was justification enough to break Rule 2.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662459

A minor addition - I don't think "it's just a prank" applies if you're going to actually do it. Suggesting a mass suicide isn't a joke if it's actually done, then it's just doing it.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by t3hSurge » #662461

Starting a mass suicide, by mere suggestion, is not a violation of any rules.

I was not toxic in OOC, and you have provided no examples of such.

here's every OOC message I made that round:
[2023-01-20 20:03:59.492] OOC: 20:03:59.492] OOC: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "map broke" (Theater (144,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:05:41.390] OOC: 20:05:41.390] OOC: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "did we just get veto&#39;d" (Theater (148,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:05:51.767] OOC: 20:05:51.767] OOC: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "RIOT" (Theater (148,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:06:14.601] OOC: 20:06:14.601] OOC: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "I&#39;LL DO IT, I&#39;LL ICK IN THE OCK!" (Theater (148,158,2))
[2023-01-20 20:10:48.266] OOC: 20:10:48.266] OOC: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "this is the admeme equivelent of asking why call when you&#39;re buried deep in a department while the station is on fire" (Bridge (144,138,2))
[2023-01-20 20:13:39.965] OOC: 20:13:39.965] OOC: T3hSurge/(Slippo) "lol non-canon" (Bridge (151,139,2))

None of that's really IC in OOC.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662463

t3hSurge wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:58 am None of that's really IC in OOC.
Alright, I'll back down on the point when looking at the context of events you've provided.
Starting a mass suicide, by mere suggestion, is not a violation of any rules.
This however. I'm sticking by this not being alright, I think that mass-suiciding because of an inconvenience is not what we want to see. I'll be happy to remove the ban and edit it to a note for taking place in a mass-suicide.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by t3hSurge » #662466

That seems more fair to me. Thanks Chesh, and thanks for all this thankless work you do. This is my first time combing logs and it's not an enviable task to be sure.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662467

t3hSurge wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:20 am That seems more fair to me. Thanks Chesh, and thanks for all this thankless work you do. This is my first time combing logs and it's not an enviable task to be sure.
I'm not here to ban people having fun, I'm just trying to make the game more enjoyable for everyone, thanks for being understanding. It's hard to make decisions when you've got people screaming at you from every direction you know?
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662468

How does this sound, is that fair?
"During a round where firelocks were closing on their own accord due to a code error, t3hsurge made a joke about a mass suicide, and would later join in when players started to take the joke seriously."
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by t3hSurge » #662480

Sounds great, looking forward to playing with you more going forward~
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Cheshify » #662482

Unbanned, welcome back.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by Thunder11 » #662563

Under normal circumstances an appeal would be left open for at least 24 hours for any final questions or additional points, but in this case something about this particular thread seems to be drawing an absurd number of spam bots so I'm going to make the executive decision to lock it early and put an end to the feeding frenzy.
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Re: [Cheshify] t3hsurge - I was too lazy to make my own appeal and Timberpoes kindly split my post out into a new topic

Post by spookuni » #664040

Our response to this was heavily delayed by some scheduling issues, we apologise for this.
We've decided to repeal the notes applied in the two tickets related to this incident. While there was precedent set previously for noting people for mass suicide pacts, the primary justification for those bans was the large amount of IC in OOC (targeted at a specific player) going on alongside them, an element that is missing here. We do not believe admins should be forcing rounds broken by code issues to remain as they are, and do not believe players should or must remain in broken roundstates if they wish to exit - repetitively suiciding at roundstart as a pattern of behaviour is against the rules (due to it being either antag rolling, or indistinguishable from antag rolling), leaving a round you no long wish to be a part of for legitimate reasons is not.

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