[Rageguy505] Noted over a firelock crush on LRP (1984? literally?)

[maskenary]

BYOND account: maskenary
Character name: Reider Meza
Ban type: Note
Ban length: Note
Ban reason: Stunned and wordlessly firelock crushed someone for no reason as a non-antag, have at least a IC reason before assaulting people.
Time ban was placed: 2022-02-18 02:46:04
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 200316
Your side of the story:

I firelocked crushed this moth a singular time, and immediately tossed them surtures.

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01:58:34	ATTACK	[firelock] crushed Iwishforducks/(Bugger) (NEWHP: 77.5)	(174, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:40	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) has thrown the suture

Why you think you should be unbanned:

The thing is, yes, this firelock crush is unprompted, but it is so minor of an infraction that a note is not deserved.

1. Don't be a dick

We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.

The impact of this action is so unbelievably tiny, it did not seriously negatively impact them at all.
A firelock crush does what? 15 brute damage? ~5 second stun?

Reminder that I tossed them surtures immediately after, meaning the damage part is nullified.

This boils the result of this exchange down to:
10 seconds worth of being knocked down?

This is not even close to grief because it literally takes like 30 seconds max to fix everything done. This round was an hour long.
I did not mess with them any further after this interaction finished, my impact on their round is practically nonexistent. An ant on their leg they swatted off.

As for escalation policy,

Escalation Policy

As a non-antagonist you may begin conflict with another player with valid reason (refusal of critical services, belligerent attitude, etc) OR if it does not excessively interfere with their ability to do their job.

This did not excessively interfere. There were no dangers pursuing them, they were holding no items to be stolen, they were not an important target of any kind (sec, command). This barely affected them. It was a minor inconvenience.
Yes, it was not started with a good reason, but this is allowed if it is not excessively interfering.

Basically:
- The impact is so minor it does not deserve a note
- It is a valid conflict under escalation policy due to it not being an excessive interference

Also, sidenote, I did actually do some roleplay this round, claiming "king of medbay" over some gold chair

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02:28:51	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "i am the real king of medbay"
02:31:54	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "i am the true king"	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:31:58	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "you false ruler"	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:32:07	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "no"	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:32:09	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "i am a lord"	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:32:29	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "uhh"	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:32:30	EMOTE	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) points at the wrench	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:32:33	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "feasting fork"	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:32:39	EMOTE	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) points at the wrench	(145, 119, 4)	Medbay Central
02:33:07	SAY	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) "peasant"

02:32:05	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "you are a hulk!"	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:32:11	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "no gentleman ruler could ever be a hulk!"	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:32:15	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "so improper!"	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:32:23	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "you could not even hold your feasting fork!"	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:32:37	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "so uncivilized..."	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:32:42	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "fear not!"	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:32:45	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "I am a rich man."	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:32:51	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "Gold flows from my coffers."	(144, 113, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:33:02	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "I uh."	(147, 114, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center
02:33:06	SAY	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) "the ore silo is empty."	(147, 114, 4)	Medbay Treatment Center

This is not Manuel, this is Sybil.
Please do not note people for a firelock crush.
Thank you.

Logs: https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/200316

[Vekter]

As a reminder, as I feel it's going to be extremely pertinent to this specific note appeal:

For those reasons, notes can be appealed if they match one of the following two cases:

• The note is factually or materially incorrect.

• There must be a difference between how an admin who knew all the facts would view you vs how an admin who only had the note to go on would view you. If you were being a shit but the note didn't correctly detail exactly how you were being a shit, an appeal nitpicking this detail is unlikely to be granted.

• Statements that are clearly pure opinion on the admins part can not be incorrect (because that is what the admin actually believes), but may be appealed under case 2 below.

• Appealed bans are only factually incorrect if the conditions around ban itself was incorrect. Getting unbanned because you apologized or similar reasons is not grounds to have the auto-generated note about the ban removed. Likewise: getting unbanned because you broke the rules but the admin or a headmin later determined that a ban was "too much" is not grounds to remove the ban's note.

• Notes appealed under this rule may be amended rather than removed.

• Notes appealed under this rule will generally be more successful if appealing players offers suggested rewording that they feel properly accounts for nuances without minimizing what the note is trying to highlight. Understand that we have to balance keeping notes short and succinct with accurately reflecting the situation.

• The note's contents or existence is unjustifiably harsh to the player's standing in the eyes of admins reading the notes.

• Notes that contain admin opinions that unfairly paint the player in a bad light are one example.

• Emphasis on the phrase "unfairly". If you're repeatedly a shitter and an admin calls you a shitter in a note just take the hint and improve on not being a shitter

[maskenary]

Someone said I planned to escalation bait into lethals, this is false. I would only bucklecuff at the max if they relentlessly pursue. Notable example is when I walked into kitchen and almost got killed by the chef as I was trying to leave. I did start it though kinda so I just shove cuffed them and left them alone even though they lethalled me. Might dig up logs in the morning idk

[iwishforducks]

Hey there, I was the blue moth in question that ahelped it. For the record, here's the ticket I sent: Link for admins only, see picture below for non-admins


Here's the reasons as to why I thought it was worthwhile to send an ahelp:

You said zero words to me the entire round and my very first interaction with you was you shove stunning me, aggressive grabbing me, throwing me against the wall and stunning me, and then firelock crushing me, keeping me stunned and helpless the entire time. I didn't retaliate at all because I had no chance to retaliate the entire time.

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01:58:27	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Iwishforducks/(Bugger) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)	(179, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:29	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) kicks Iwishforducks/(Bugger) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100)	(180, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:29	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Iwishforducks/(Bugger) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)	(180, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:30	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) grabbed Iwishforducks/(Bugger) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)	(179, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:31	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) grabbed Iwishforducks/(Bugger) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100)	(176, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:32	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) thrown Iwishforducks/(Bugger) grab from tile in Starboard Primary Hallway (174,128,4) towards tile at Library (174,131,4) (NEWHP: 100)	(174, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:32	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) has thrown Bugger	(174, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:35	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) attacked [firelock] with the multitool	(174, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway

You only fucked off after I had yelled help over comms and when I called for help from the science security guard

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01:58:34	SAY	Iwishforducks/(Bugger) "Help"	(174, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:37	SAY	Iwishforducks/(Bugger) "HELP"	(174, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:38	SAY	Iwishforducks/(Bugger) "HELP"	(174, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:58:40	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) has thrown the suture	(172, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway

who then chased you and shot disabler shots at you as you fled

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01:58:43	ATTACK	GI_Joe2/(Jeff Gubler) shot Maskenary/(Reider Meza) with the disabler beam (NEWHP: 100)	(171, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway

People were saying you were robusting a cap over comms

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01:51:09	SAY	Levick/(Jacqueline Raub) "reider is robusting a cap"	(111, 137, 4)	Bridge

And from the look of the logs you were. You first randomly brawled them

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01:48:17	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) grabbed Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)	(151, 115, 4)	Medbay Aft
01:48:19	ATTACK	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) shoved Maskenary/(Reider Meza) (NEWHP: 100)	(152, 113, 4)	Medbay Aft
01:48:20	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) (NEWHP: 100)	(153, 114, 4)	Medbay Aft
01:48:25	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) (NEWHP: 100)	(152, 117, 4)	Medbay Aft
01:48:25	ATTACK	Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) shoved Maskenary/(Reider Meza) (NEWHP: 100)	(152, 121, 4)	Medbay Central
01:48:27	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) (NEWHP: 100)	(152, 118, 4)	Medbay Aft

And then stole their shoes about 3 minutes later when you got the upper hand

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01:51:00	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) kicks Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100)	(107, 140, 4)	Central Primary Hallway
01:51:00	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) (NEWHP: 100)	(107, 140, 4)	Central Primary Hallway
01:51:02	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) is stripping Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) of the laceup shoes.	(107, 141, 4)	Central Primary Hallway
01:51:02	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)	(107, 141, 4)	Central Primary Hallway
01:51:03	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) has stripped Blackdav123/(Weston Echard) of the laceup shoes.	(107, 141, 4)	Central Primary Hallway

While I hope this isn't too peanuty, especially because it was from a previous round, in one of my previous rounds you got into a fight with the HoP. I don't know much about the details, as I was just the warden, but you took their energy gun- which you returned to security, but had kept their telebaton. My only times I have seen you in-game is when you're fucking around with people for seemingly no reason. I just wanted to be honest as to why I had decided to even ahelp it in the first place.

I will, however, point out again that you did give me sutures, which the note left out.

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01:58:40	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) has thrown the suture	(172, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway

My round went fine. I enjoyed it. You crushing me did not ruin my round but I still personally thought you were being a dick. And from what I can tell from your combat logs from that round: You were fucking with a lot of people- not just me. Here's an example of you fucking with a medical doctor where you also said zero words; There's plenty more examples to be found from that round.

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01:45:09	SAY	Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) "Hello."	(138, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:14	SAY	Gunther223/(Ryan Armstrong) "Why is my pda light not doing anything"	(138, 126, 4)	Pharmacy
01:45:19	SAY	Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) "I don't know."	(138, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:22	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)	(138, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:23	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) kicks Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100)	(138, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:23	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)	(138, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:24	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) grabbed Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)	(138, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:25	SAY	Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) "Bec-"	(138, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:26	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) grabbed Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100)	(133, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:26	SAY	Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) "Owch!"	(135, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:29	SAY	Glassbrain/(Milton Stein) "Please stop."	(133, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway

With the only reason why you stopped is because someone else came to their aid. Again, no words.

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01:45:28	ATTACK	Tax Fraud/(Morgan Holloway) shoved Maskenary/(Reider Meza) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)	(133, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:29	ATTACK	Tax Fraud/(Morgan Holloway) kicks Maskenary/(Reider Meza) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100)	(132, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:29	ATTACK	Tax Fraud/(Morgan Holloway) shoved Maskenary/(Reider Meza) (NEWHP: 100)	(132, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
01:45:39	ATTACK	Tax Fraud/(Morgan Holloway) shoved Maskenary/(Reider Meza) (NEWHP: 100)	(146, 135, 4)	Diner
01:45:41	ATTACK	Maskenary/(Reider Meza) shoved Tax Fraud/(Morgan Holloway) (NEWHP: 100)	(146, 134, 4)	Diner

There's plenty more fighting between you and this person, but I think you get the point.

[Rageguy505]

Hey, sorry for the delay but when I wrote the note the round was gonna end soon so I wanted to put something there so it'll show the current round ID. If you'd like I could amend it to add that you gave them a suture, but again it doesn't matter if you just randomly assault someone and then heal them.

[Rageguy505]

Also I wanted to add that crushing someone with a firelock for no reason is pretty NRP (no role play). And sybil is LRP (light role play) which needs some amount of roleplaying.

[maskenary]

But which rule is this breaking? Rule 1 says

Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone

The effect of this action on iwishforducks is too minor for that

The escalation policy says I can start a conflict if it doesn't excessively interfere (it didn't)

and IC justification can be that they're a moth

Capture.PNG (10.7 KiB) Viewed 1603 times

[Vekter]

It's generally been acceptable in the past to note people for going out of their way to antagonize people regardless of the overall impact on their round. See: People going around breaking random windows for no reason.

[Rageguy505]

and IC justification can be that they're a moth
Capture.PNG

In the ticket about this you didn't give me a reason/random assault and in this current appeal you also say this was unprompted. Nowhere else does it mention moth hatred.

[maskenary]

ok just amend it please

[Rageguy505]

Sure, the notes been updated to

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Stunned and wordlessly firelock crushed someone for no reason as a non-antag and gave them a stack sutures after. Have atleast a IC reason before assaulting people.

If that's all there is then just tell me so I can throw this in resolved.

[maskenary]

Resolve